You got to be kidding me: an alphabetical keyboard.

[pythagras]

http://www.alphaboard.com/

Research consistently shows that Qwerty and Dvorak keyboards outperform alphabetical layouts. The most common keys you type are not conveniently ordered in the alphabetic layout. As a Dvorak user, I found it reprehensible that a company would use the arguments against the Qwerty to dupe users into buying a piece of crap.

Thoughs?

If I come across any research I'll post it here.

[terribleRobbo]

Oh dear, oh dear... *Sigh*


> Are you ready to help your children get that edge in our computer saturated schools?

By making them use a non-standard keyboard? Good one, you legend. :mad:


Hmm... I guess it IS all marketing... :(

[myshkin]

39.95 for an alpha keyboard!? you gotta be kidding me!

[zdude255]

"So the only reason the keys were arranged in the QWERTY order was to move the common hammers away from each other. With today's computer keyboards there are, of course, no hammers to contend with. It is simply a circuit board. So no logical reason remains for the keys to be jumbled or rearranged."

Actually I believe they were also arranged for productivity of typists. I think programmers may have also had an influence because noone else uses the semicolon THAT much.

You gotta be joking, it has the stupidest layout too. One of those giant enter buttons and a Backspace key thats too small. Also what's the point of that swastica logo near the Alt keys.

I think that an Alphabetic layout is the slowest thing out there. I could probably type faster with one of those keyboard maps.

[AlexPlank]

If i want an alphakeyboard, all i have to do is pop out the keys from my current keyboard and arrange them in alphabetical order, and then assign different values in the operating system.

Actually I saw a joke in my grandmothers reader digest. It was about some kid who rearanged the keys in alphabetical order after popping them out. QWERTY is slow but alphakeyboard is probably just as slow and i am not taking the time to re learn typing.

Write a Hollywood screenplay!

[NotQuiteSane]

I suppose Idiots will be Idiots, nd there'll always be someone around to seperate them from their money (after all, Microsoft exists)

NQS

[Icarus]

Forget the Alpha or QWERTY keyboards...get a Dvorak!
http://www.thisistrue.com/dvorak.html

http://www.thisistrue.com/images/dvorak.gif

[mrBen]

Originally posted by zdude255
"So the only reason the keys were arranged in the QWERTY order was to move the common hammers away from each other. With today's computer keyboards there are, of course, no hammers to contend with. It is simply a circuit board. So no logical reason remains for the keys to be jumbled or rearranged."

Actually I believe they were also arranged for productivity of typists. I think programmers may have also had an influence because noone else uses the semicolon THAT much.

...


Actually, that bit on their site is true. Typists had got too fast, and some of the common alphabetic combos (s+t, b+a, g+h, etc) were causing hammers to lock, so they jumbled them so that common combos were seperated. Touch -typing was only invented after that, and allowed typists to reach good speeds again. The Dvorak keyboard is supposed to be the ultimate, precisely because all the most used letters of the alphabet are placed under the home keys (as per diagram above).

[AlexPlank]

Does anyone here actually use dvorak????? I have never met anyone who does.

Contrary to popular opinion, the qwerty design was not actually invented to slow typists down. Rather, the layout was intended to place common two-letter combinations on opposite sides of the keyboard.
http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/jcb/Dvorak/

[Fryguy8]

woah, i always thought dvorak was like qwerty, but instead of qwerty along the top, it was dvorak. I thought it was optimized for other languages or something

ROFL

Does anybody know how hard it is to learn dvorak and still use qwerty? And where there are some good sources to learn dvorak? I learned typing in 7th grade, so it's been a little while since i've actually taught myself to type.

[Icarus]

I've heard from people that switched from QWERTY to dvorak that at first it is a total pain (you need to forget how to use the keyboard) but once you learn the layout it is much faster then QWERTY.

Problem with that though is if you switch to a standard system, your all messed up again :p

[DarkJedi9]

...the easier you can type the more you can get accomplished and that means better jobs and bigger paychecks!
After all, once you buy this keyboard every keyboard you ever have to use at work will magically turn into an alpha-keyboard as well!

[Seph64]

Forget about Alphabetical keyboards, I love typing without having to look at the keyboard itself. I am not going to stop using the QWERTY system just because some dufus thinks that QWERTY is confusing, and that their alphaboard is the wave of the future (it is not).

Hunting and pecking keys on a keyboard is annoying, I'd rather punch the keyboard as hard I as I can than to hunt and peck. SCREW THAT!

[JamminJoeyB]

Here is my $.02.

I came across an article about keyboards once on the net that sited the qwerty and Dvorak keyboards. It listed a study done by the navy.

They gave typewriters laid out in qwerty to one group of clerks and Dvorak to the others.

After all was said and done, the clerks using the Dvoraks were faster then the qwerty users and never wanted to use a qweryt again.

Since was the navy, the study for changing was shot down due to the money involved in changing all the navy overy.

If I come across that article I'll post it. Don't have time to look for it right now.

[frogb]

I've seen keyboards like this before, overpriced as well, but this is not for common use. You'd have to actually buy one and throw away what came with your computer. Without any good reason, that's not going to happen.

The first five letters in the top row are Q-W-E-R-T-Y
Did they say five? Even after spelling out each letter?

[irlandes]

Test after test show that people trained on Dvorak are much faster than the conventional keyboard. There is no doubt of this.

Yet, costs to change the whole world are just unacceptable, so we keep on with a poor system.

In Mexico, when I mentioned COBOL to my nephew, a computer section manager, he asked my why on earth anyone would use obsolete COBOL. I told him so many large companies originally computerized with COBOL, all their records and accounts are on COBOL, and they simply can't afford to change to a modern system. The cost would be in the billions for large companies.

It is hard to sort out legend from truth. But, all my life I read the original typewriters could not keep up with the typists, so they were designed to slow up the typist. That explanation that hammer conflict was the real reason makes more sense, though. In any case, QWERTY keyboards were not developed for maximium efficiency. That makes no sense and is self-obviously not true.

[serz]

God.. they should be kidding, whatta crazy people..

[JohnT]

What's typing????:p

[sclebo05]

My old high school has everyone using Macs. Maybe to finally rob children of real-world experience, they will switch to Macs with alphabetic keyboards.

[dungscooperdave]

If you're using Mandrake 9.1, open up the Mandrake Control Center and goto hardware and you can change your keymap settings from there. Then once you close the window, you can practice with the new keymap setting until you are comfortable with it. Then when you go to change the keymap back, you will get extremely comfortable with your new keymap as you struggle to figure out how to type in your root password with the new keymap. By the time you figure it out, you've mastered the new keymap!

It took me about an hour to finally switch my keymap back after doing this. Some of us just learn the hard way.... ;)

[pythagras]

I use Dvorak actually. I can type fine on either Dvorak or Qwerty. I like dvorak cause my fingers tend to move less, and I've had problems with fingers cramping up, so thats nice.

[Strogian]

Ehh, I tried dvorak a while back, (got pretty good at it, too) but decided that there's no real point. Qwerty works, and it's the standard. That's good enough for me.

[ashibaka]

I like QWERTY because you can type out the word "typewriter" entirely on the top line.

[diving_penguin]

Originally posted by dungscooperdave
If you're using Mandrake 9.1, open up the Mandrake Control Center and goto hardware and you can change your keymap settings from there. Then once you close the window, you can practice with the new keymap setting until you are comfortable with it. Then when you go to change the keymap back, you will get extremely comfortable with your new keymap as you struggle to figure out how to type in your root password with the new keymap. By the time you figure it out, you've mastered the new keymap!

It took me about an hour to finally switch my keymap back after doing this. Some of us just learn the hard way.... ;)


I just just about the same thing in redhat yesterday. I changed it to dvorak, messed around typing for a minute, then went to change it back. I realized I would have to put my password in and started kicking myself. Thankfully, I still had root permissions for some reason, and didn't have to enter the password again. I'm an idiot ;)

[Darksamurai]

Aye yi yi...

After over 16 years of typing QWERTY, that sucker would reduce me to hunting and pecking again.

Who would BUY one of those? I mean, it seems kind of a poor layout at this juncture...

[KarrottoP]

I type way too much the way it is. and usually my problem is because I can
not think as fast as I can move my fingers. Well that is not entirely true, I guess I do hit the backspace key a bit when I type. I would guess that games that use wasd for movement would be thrown off a bit, but that would be an easy reconfigure. (speaking of DVORAK or whatever it is that is.) I just can not see myself typing in one method at home and then going to work, firing up autocad, and putting in commands at the command prompt with a completely differnet keyboard layout. Alpha-keyboard...well, thats just retarded.

[Artimus]

This Dvorak keyboard has me intrigued. I might have to try one. An alpha keyboard is just stupid...

[carrja99]

Heh, I visited the wbesite and clicked on the "AlphaBoard Specs" and as I looked, lo and behold, the message "All alphaBoards only $39.96 for the next thirty minutes" suddenly appeared at the bottom of the screen.

So, am I to expect to get this special discount price if I act fast? What's the regular price, since $39.96 sounds like it's suppose to be a hard bargain!

And my favorite "advantage" of an AlphaBoard...

Get into College!

[phiber]

The Dvorak-layout seems pretty interesting to me; actually I'm
using it right now, and has been so for about an hour. It seems like a far
more elegant approach towards optimal typing than qwerty.

[leonpmu]

that it is all a matter of what you have learnt?? Look at Windows users, that have a heart attack looking @ Linux, simply because it is NOT what they are used to!! I had a chat with two freinds the other night about it, one is glued to windows, the other is quite level headed and spoke of the pro's and cons of both.

It boils down to what you are taught.

Example, there isn't just QWERTY, has anyone here tried typing with a French keyboard when you are used to a 105 intl??

That is another thing altogether!!!

[/0.5cents]

[robagen]

I just stared. ABCDEF..come on. The Ultimate
keyboard for the hunt-and peck typist. I REAlly
wonder how someone would get speed on it.
Another design for a keyboard might be one based
on the frequency of occurrence of the letters
of the alphabet, or does Dvorak do that already?
ETAOINSHRLDU..or something like that.

(Suggested Linux Configuration Orgy subject:mapping ALL those doodads on a 150-key windows keyboard to operations in a Linux system!
You know, the keyboards with the usual 104 keys and then 30 extra gimcracks, wheels, sliders, whatnot.):D :D

[Strogian]

Originally posted by robagen
I just stared. ABCDEF..come on. The Ultimate
keyboard for the hunt-and peck typist. I REAlly
wonder how someone would get speed on it.
Another design for a keyboard might be one based
on the frequency of occurrence of the letters
of the alphabet, or does Dvorak do that already?
ETAOINSHRLDU..or something like that.


Yep, that's what Dvorak is. It's been proven in simulations to create less finger movement, so it may be more comfortable to use. But, since my fingers don't hurt, I'll stick with qwerty. :)

[mage492]

I have 2 cents to add...

Remember how long most of us have been using QWERTY? Obviously, you're not going to learn an entirely new layout in a few days, or even a week or two. It'll take practice, but EVENTUALLY, it becomes faster.

Look at how many of us came to Linux from Windows (not myself, I know, but most of us)! We were USED to Windows, but we moved to Linux. Did it take a while to learn? Yes. Did we give up because we didn't see immediate results? No. We stuck with it. My personal opinion is that, given a year with each option, we would find that QWERTY is not the fastest. Actually, the typewriter thing was because typers hit the keys too fast (as has been mentioned).

In the end, how can we mock Windows if we're too afraid to step away from what we know for a long enough time to learn it?

[myshkin]

if you say so, maybe ill try writting with my left hand now. :D

[randabis]

Maybe so mage, but I still doubt that someone typing on an alphabetic keyboard would type faster than you could type on qwerty or dvorak

[Strogian]

It'll take practice, but EVENTUALLY, it becomes faster.

Having used (and read about) Dvorak for some time, I'll have to disagree. :) If you are good with QWERTY, Dvorak isn't going to be any faster. At best, it will just take less effort to use. I'll just stick with qwerty until they come up with a good replacement for the keyboard itself.

[zdude255]

Why make a keyboard in the order of the alphabet? It would be simpler just to teach kids a different alphabet.

QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM :D

[nerrollus]

Originally posted by zdude255
Why make a keyboard in the order of the alphabet? It would be simpler just to teach kids a different alphabet.

QWERTYUIOPASDFGHJKLZXCVBNM :D

Now you're thinking! haha


Doesn't seem to rhyme as good as the original, but who cares.. I could learn a new alphabet quicker than I could learn to type on a different style keyboard! ;p

[RWiggum]

That Sean Connery is such a whore; he'll do anything for a buck.

http://www.alphaboard.com/images/gramps.jpg

[NotQuiteSane]

Easy way to convert to Dvorak:

http://hooleon.com/prod-dvo.htm

unless you make your own label's, probably one of the cheaper ways to change the hardware.

NQS

[Jo.Mo.]

that sean connery look alike is kinda spooky, it's like he's staring at his grandson saying "yeessss, yessss, that's it, type those letters, get grampa all reved up for 'closet time', yessssss"

but seriously, why does one need an enter key so large? i have one like that, and my backspace key is so tiny, but i can't get a new keyboard unless i wanna buy a PS/2 card or something, cuz the computer has an oversized version of it, and i don't know WHERE to even beginning looking for something as outdated as that.

[clane]

I think this is a great thread. Here we have a bunch of Linux users. Linux would probably be considered by most of the people on this thread to be the superior OS. Windows would probably be considered the inferior OS. Most of the general public uses Windows, however. It's more familiar. It's what everybody else uses.

Now, substitute the word "Qwerty" for Windows and "Dvorak" for Linux. Everyone that uses/praises Linux and bashes Windows are the same people that are hanging on to their "familiar, easy to use, it's what I learned to type on" keyboard.

No offense meant to anyone here. I just find the paradoxical, ironical nature of this discussion too juicy to pass up. The same types of people that are willing to take a less travelled, more adventurous path down the OS/desktop road are, for the most part, unwilling to forego the familiarity and comfort of the Qwerty keyboard, much like Windows users who hang on to the familiarity of their OS.

This would make an interesting psychology class discussion.
(Again, no offense meant).

[Strogian]

Originally posted by clane
I think this is a great thread. Here we have a bunch of Linux users. Linux would probably be considered by most of the people on this thread to be the superior OS. Windows would probably be considered the inferior OS. Most of the general public uses Windows, however. It's more familiar. It's what everybody else uses.

Now, substitute the word "Qwerty" for Windows and "Dvorak" for Linux. Everyone that uses/praises Linux and bashes Windows are the same people that are hanging on to their "familiar, easy to use, it's what I learned to type on" keyboard.

No offense meant to anyone here. I just find the paradoxical, ironical nature of this discussion too juicy to pass up. The same types of people that are willing to take a less travelled, more adventurous path down the OS/desktop road are, for the most part, unwilling to forego the familiarity and comfort of the Qwerty keyboard, much like Windows users who hang on to the familiarity of their OS.

This would make an interesting psychology class discussion.
(Again, no offense meant).

Yep, someone actually suggested that earlier, I think. :) The difference is that QWERTY and Dvorak aren't really all that different. A better analogy would be switching from Linux to BSD (or vice versa.. I don't really have an opinion on which is "better," since I've only used Linux :)) Neither QWERTY nor linux seem "bad" enough to warrant a switch, IMHO.

On the other hand, if someone came up with a completely new means of data entry -- not even a keyboard in the traditional sense -- then things might be different. Oh, and it would have to be free. :D

Really though, the keyboard is irrelevant to my computer use. If I get tired, I take a break from typing. It's not that big a deal to me. :)

[RWiggum]

The problem with your analogy is that by learning and using Linux at home, I don't lose any of my proficiency with Windows elsewhere. But the location of keys on a keyboard is something so entrenched in your brain that you'd have a difficult time switching back and forth. It's more like teaching yourself how to write with the wrong hand than trying a different OS.

[pythagras]

Originally posted by RWiggum
The problem with your analogy is that by learning and using Linux at home, I don't lose any of my proficiency with Windows elsewhere. But the location of keys on a keyboard is something so entrenched in your brain that you'd have a difficult time switching back and forth. It's more like teaching yourself how to write with the wrong hand than trying a different OS.

For me its not really that hard to be good at both.... Its almost like learning two seperate musical instruments.

[Parcival]

In cognitive psychology we are talking of different stores in memory, and one of the stores is for procedural tasks. Learning how to drive a car, learning a music instrument, doing rifle drills in bootcamp, or learning how to type on a keyboard goes into that memory store.

When we start learning such a task, it demands a lot of attention from us. You maybe have observed that people freshly driving a car can't stand to listen to the car's radio at the same time, or that new typers type slowly as they have to recall the position of the key from memory if they don't wanna look at the keyboard.

The good thing, however, is that once you've got that stuff in your procedural memory, you don't forget it for a lifetime. You can drive a car and perform an originaly "difficult" maneuver as passing another car while you're talking to the person on the other seat. When you're a professional musician, all you have to do is focus on the music, your hands/fingers simply do the right movements automaticaly. When your instructor has taught you all rifle drills, you're able to fix your jammed weapon within seconds while you're in a situation of high stress. And I guess I don't need to tell you how automatic typing goes after a while. :)

Now, if we come to the Qwerty and Dvorak keyboards, it's indeed the case that they're not much different in terms of learning. The ones who already learned Qwerty, however, would have a big problem on getting started with Dvorak because of their high Qwerty skill. Above we said it takes a lot of attention and focus to learn a new procedural skil, and it's really hard to stay focused when your other highly developped skill keeps to interfere. :) For people who are using a keyboard for the very first time, though, it would be as easy/difficult to learn the Dvorak system as the Qwerty system. Their learning speed would probably be the same as if they were learning Qwerty, so we wouldn't exspect much difference there. The only advantage in speed they have may be that fact that they don't need to reach for certain keys as often as with the Qwerty keyboard. However, that surely doesn't justify the hilarious promises they make on that website. Hitting a couple keys faster probably won't even let you leave your office early when you've actually enough work to stay everyday until 10:00 p.m. :)

In the end, the conclusion is that Dvorak isn't necessarily faster than Qwerty, and for those who have been using Qwerty for a lifetime, a change really doesn't make sense.:)

[CaptainPinko]

i just swihched to dvorak ane its REAL slow right tho i notice that i dont move my hands as much already tho the 'r' is somewhat out of the way... hint: print out the pic oy the keyxoard first it helps a lot ;) well good luck everyone!