OS X and Darwin

[ZAmodeo]

Hi everybody!
I've been looking around the Apple website and I looked for info on the Darwin project. There's an x86 version of it available for iso download (I'm considering this...but) and I was wondering if Darwin is OSX or if it's just some of the base system. In other words, hypothetically I download and burn the Darwin iso, then I install it. Will it look and act like an Apple computer running OSX or is it just a UNIX (does *nix mean UNIX/Linux or is it to prevent using UNIX?) distro like FreeBSD? While I'm at it, can OSX run Apple programs or just specific OSX programs and Linux/UNIX ones if you download the X11 patch on their site?
Thanks!!!

[dungscooperdave]

I'm not positive but I think Darwin is just the name of the kernel. Don't quote me on it, though.

[dungscooperdave]

Could you post a link to the page where you got it from?

[KarrottoP]

OSX is built verry simmular to linux. Darwin is basically another *nix, actually it is based on netbsd. The rest of OSX like the User interface etc. is not available on the x86 darwin installation. However you can get X11 etc running in darwin, but it will be fairly different from linux and from OSX. I enjoy using darwin, it has some nice features, but I only use it as part of OSX.

[ZAmodeo]

For the project home: http://developer.apple.com/darwin/

For the isos: http://www.opensource.apple.com/projects/darwin/6.0/release.html

I'm going to do more research on Darwin and I'll post some more info in case anyone is interested.

Thanks to iKarrottoP and I thought it was based on freeBSD, not netBSD, but it doesn't really matter to me. Are Darwin's UI and program capabilities like OSX's in the Mac version?

IBM should have used BSD for their Unix code instead of SCO's but then again, SCO might have sued anyway for some odd reason...

[dungscooperdave]

Originally posted by ZAmodeo
I'm going to do more research on Darwin and I'll post some more info in case anyone is interested.
Yes, please do post anymore info you come accross. :)

[pilotgi]

The aqua GUI in OSX is owned and licensed by Apple. You will not get this if you download Darwin.

Apple isn't going to let anyone download their top-of-the-line GUI for free.

[KarrottoP]

yea, but they keep a full blown x86 version of OSX running down there at 1 infinate loop just incase mororolla and IBM drop the ball on procs. It would be fun to get ahold of that install cd! Then again I am not neo and can not dodge bullets

[xulfralos]

OSX/Darwin is based on FreeBSD, not NetBSD, although there are some bits and pieces from NetBSD in there.

[dungscooperdave]

Originally posted by iKarrottoP
Then again I am not neo and can not dodge bullets
Dag, I have that problem too! ;)

[El_Cu_Guy]

and I was wondering if Darwin is OSX or if it's just some of the base system.

Darwin is the underlying components of Mac OSX. It's a little confusing at time as it Darwin referring to this and the kernel. I believe your are referring to DarwinOS x86. This is Darwin along with other packages.

(does *nix mean UNIX/Linux or is it to prevent using UNIX?)

Consider is short-hand for unix-based and unix-like (do not confuse the terms).

While I'm at it, can OSX run Apple programs or just specific OSX programs and Linux/UNIX ones if you download the X11 patch on their site?

OSX will run older Mac apps in Classic mode. As for your Unix/Linux blah blah question...depends. Some will run fine others require minor changes, while others may require a re-write.

Darwin is basically another *nix, actually it is based on netbsd.

FreeBSD/Mach

yea, but they keep a full blown x86 version of OSX running down there at 1 infinate loop just incase mororolla and IBM drop the ball on procs.

Ah it surfaces yet again. This story started back when Apple made the announcement that the next MacOS would be a BSD based OS. Then Apple began annoucing that a development port of Rhapsody would be made available to developers. It got even more press after some idiot happend upon DarwinOS x86. Initially they assumed an easy port and the x86 version of DarwinOS just fueled the fire. Is there an entire x86 OSX port? No as hardware support is limited but requires (for the most part) recompiling the software. Yes, Marklar. You can also find article about retail versions of this port.

[mage492]

Okay, Darwin is like getting just the CLI from Linux. If you want anything graphical, you'll have to do it some other way. You get the kernel, command line, and that's pretty much it. Imagine Linux without your GUI, and you have a pretty good idea what you'd wind up with. I THINK you could put X11 and some other stuff on it and have some fun, but don't quote me on that.

[aqua]

Originally posted by xulfralos
OSX/Darwin is based on FreeBSD, not NetBSD, although there are some bits and pieces from NetBSD in there.

Originally OSX was based on netbsd but as the system has matured, it borrows more from FreeBSD. But then again the two are so intertwined it really does not matter but thought I would straighten it out for the record.

[aqua]

Originally posted by El_Cu_Guy
Darwin is the underlying components of Mac OSX. It's a little confusing at time as it Darwin referring to this and the kernel. I believe your are referring to DarwinOS x86. This is Darwin along with other packages.



Consider is short-hand for unix-based and unix-like (do not confuse the terms).



OSX will run older Mac apps in Classic mode. As for your Unix/Linux blah blah question...depends. Some will run fine others require minor changes, while others may require a re-write.



FreeBSD/Mach



Ah it surfaces yet again. This story started back when Apple made the announcement that the next MacOS would be a BSD based OS. Then Apple began annoucing that a development port of Rhapsody would be made available to developers. It got even more press after some idiot happend upon DarwinOS x86. Initially they assumed an easy port and the x86 version of DarwinOS just fueled the fire. Is there an entire x86 OSX port? No as hardware support is limited but requires (for the most part) recompiling the software. Yes, Marklar. You can also find article about retail versions of this port.

I would give up the notion of Marklar hitting the market it increasing rumors that Apple will be using IBM's 970 chip in their upcoming processors. If the 970 can do what the rumored benchmarks state then it will give intel a run for their money. So as it stands Marklar is an insurance policy that may never come to market.

By the way Deus Ex Machina is an excellent game.:D

[El_Cu_Guy]

Originally OSX was based on netbsd but as the system has matured, it borrows more from FreeBSD. But then again the two are so intertwined it really does not matter but thought I would straighten it out for the record.

Oh man. Apple never was nor has been based on NetBSD. Sure you could consider the fact that all projects stem from 386BSD (now FreeBSD) but you'd be walking a fine line. Apple has always said that the BSD elements were taken from FreeBSD. Apple is involved in deep collaboration with FreeBSD developers. Also most of the Apple/Darwin faq/doc specifies FreeBSD numerous times.

I think you're confusing NetBSD with NeXTstep. I could see how this could cause some confusion seeing as how they both start with N (duh).

By the way Deus Ex Machina is an excellent game.

I know there's a game called Deus Ex but I didn't know do I care about DXM. That wasn't the point of me choosing the sig. Oh well time to pick something different.

[xulfralos]

Originally posted by aqua
Originally OSX was based on netbsd but as the system has matured, it borrows more from FreeBSD. But then again the two are so intertwined it really does not matter but thought I would straighten it out for the record.

That's not what I've read. On your other statement, any BSD user who has used FreeBSD and NetBSD knows that they aren't that 'intertwined' at all. They might take ideas from each other and incorporate them, but they don't share source trees and have quite different philosophies.

[alfredo]

This will turn your Darwin into something with a GUI.
gnu-darwin (http://gnu-darwin.sourceforge.net/)

Here is a page with a bunch of Darwin Links. This is mostly for PPC, I am sure you can find something you can use.

HyperJeff's wonderful link page (http://osx.hyperjeff.net/Links.html)

Least I forget, here is Prime Time Freeware. these were the guys who distributed MkLinux, my first Linux. They know UNIX.

PTF (http://ptf.com/tdc/)

[ZAmodeo]

The gnu-darwin project has X and what looks like the Window Maker WM on it right? Has anyone compared the speed of it to FreeBSD or Linux? Someone I know recently got an Apple Powerbook with OS X on it and he said it cun run everything at once and won't crash, which makes me more interested in the whole darwin thing. I know many people would say Linux could do it better, but I'm just considering other options.:)

[alfredo]

those are older pictures too. the new X11 provided by Apple is much faster than others I have tried.

I am a big fan of FINK. It uses apt-get.
http://fink.sourceforge.net/index.php

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

[z0mbix]

Originally posted by alfredo
those are older pictures too. the new X11 provided by Apple is much faster than others I have tried.

I am a big fan of FINK. It uses apt-get.
http://fink.sourceforge.net/index.php

http://www.apple.com/macosx/x11/

Ditto, I installed fink a couple of days ago and using to grab al sorts of packages. I've had no probs atall yet.

I don't even think I'm going to bother dual booting my iBook with Debian anymore, I'm liking OS X and all the software available via Fink.

[Steve7516]

OpenDarwin (http://www.opendarwin.org/) is another Darwin Distrobution, I think that is what GNU-Darwin uses.

You can run X on darwin with XDarwin (http://www.xdarwin.org/).

I dont know if OpenDarwin/GNU-Darwin include it or not in their distrobutions.

OpenDarwin looks promising and ill probably order it sometime.

[sarah31]

Originally posted by z0mbix
Ditto, I installed fink a couple of days ago and using to grab al sorts of packages. I've had no probs atall yet.

I don't even think I'm going to bother dual booting my iBook with Debian anymore, I'm liking OS X and all the software available via Fink.

fink is not bad but, like debian, alot of the apps in it are very old. everything i have wanted from open source i have just compiled myself. you have to do a little bit extra in ./configure option and pass a few option with make sometimes but it does not really take much work to get things to compile.

most other stuff i would want is already ported into nice OS X native apps. the only thing i use x11 for is to use openoffice. why use x11 when auqa is so much nicer?