Gentoo converting to RPM

[viperlin]

Should Gentoo Linux convert to RPM or Stay with portage.
Story here:
http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20030401-newsletter.xml

[Hayl]

umm this is an april fools joke.

[viperlin]

are you apsolutely sure?

[Icarus]

Originally posted by viperlin
are you apsolutely sure? Yes, I'm pretty sure. Since Gentoo prides themselves on the Portage system for compiling source to return maximum performance...

And I really don't buy this as a reason for anything...The primary driver for this decision was to ensure compliance with the Linux Standard Base specification, which mandates RPM support for package management.

[Hayl]

Originally posted by viperlin
are you apsolutely sure?

yes - it even says right in the GWN that it is an April Fools Joke. Here it is quoted.


Portage 2.1 to adopt RPM format for LSB compliance

In what will likely prove to be a controversial decision, Portage 2.1 will adopt the RPM format for all packages moving forward. The use of ebuilds will be deprecated in favor of the defacto RPM standard. The primary driver for this decision was to ensure compliance with the Linux Standard Base specification, which mandates RPM support for package management.

The developers have been hard at work to make this migration as easy as possible. Already a proof-of-concept ebuild2rpm script is in place and being tested by a pilot group of developers. Unfortunately, because of the architectural differences between the two formats, some features will not be supported once Gentoo moves to RPM. USE variables are one such feature; sandbox security is another. However, the added benefit brought about by full LSB compliance should far outweigh the loss of these two minor features.

Additionally, because of LSB's required library support, the xfree86 package will move to become part of the base Gentoo Linux system, rather than an optional addition. Users interested in learning more about the Linux Standard Base should read the LSB FAQ or the full LSB 1.3 specification.

Note: This is an April Fool's joke.

PS: I am hoping that what they did to GAIM-CVS was an April Fools Joke as well. I re-emerged gaim-cvs this morning and now the Window Title says "Biatches List" instead of "Buddy List" lol.

[nextbillgates]

Originally posted by ye110man
hahahaha. i'd rather keep it as "biatches list."

but just wondering... why doesn't gentoo just release everything in a few rpm's already optimized for different processors?

I'm not sure if they use RPMs, but they are working on packages.

[Hayl]

they have some "grp" packages that are pre-optimized for large stuff like KDE, Gnome, etc for people who want a faster install.

i doubt that they will add many more packages since it is kind-of against the whole spirit of gentoo being a source-based meta-distro.

[Raoul_Duke]

Ironically, rpm is a dependancy of a standard KDE install. So there are many Gentoo users (me included) who have a dormant rpm package installed on their systems anyway :p

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by Raoul_Duke
Ironically, rpm is a dependancy of a standard KDE install. This is news to me... I've never been forced to install an rpm package to compile KDE from source. But then again, LFS is different from Gentoo -- Gentoo probably just downloads the rpm package and installs it without letting you know (or something), whereas in LFS, you can specifically configure kdeutils to omit the kpackage program.

Maybe the ebuild for Gentoo can be tweaked to do this too, but it probably isn't by default...

Anyway, my point is, kpackage won't work without an rpm installed, but who needs kpackage anyway? Just don't compile it.

[Raoul_Duke]

Yeah, it only comes if you choose to 'emerge' the whole, undiluted, KDE package.........and yes, Kpackage is to blame for the 'Evil RPM' :p

Yeah, i'll just 'unmerge' RPM sometime.......i'm pretty sure nothing else on my system depends on it :rolleyes:

[CaptainPinko]

what would be so wrong with gentoo using source rpms?

now if you emerge something instead of installing an rpm does it get added to the rpm registry thing? if not wouldn't that casue a lot of problems later *IF* you wanted to install an rpm?

[Raoul_Duke]

Nope, the rpm database is empty..........imagine that for dependancy hell :D

[z0mbix]

Originally posted by viperlin
Should Gentoo Linux convert to RPM or Stay with portage.
Story here:
http://www.gentoo.org/news/en/gwn/20030401-newsletter.xml

I can't quite believe anyone fell for this? ;)

[viperlin]

lol i was trying to see if anyone would fall for it, although it has been a good discussion.
and i admit i fell for it at first, till i saw the "This is an april fools joke" bit, there is another joke further down.

and the "German Police Runs on Gentoo-ARM" was a good joke

[Sepero]

MODERATERS:
Please close this thread.
It is detracting from users that actually need help.

[do_guh_new]

MODERATERS:
Please close this thread.
It is detracting from users that actually need help.

You've been here all of a month, and you're gonna tell the mods how to do their jobs now? :rolleyes:

[Raoul_Duke]

Also, i thought /dev/random was for linux related 'chat'......rather than support :confused:

[z0mbix]

Originally posted by do_guh_new
You've been here all of a month, and you're gonna tell the mods how to do their jobs now? :rolleyes:

lol :)

[Hayl]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
what would be so wrong with gentoo using source rpms?

imho, because anything to do with RPMs sucks.

imho, RPM = retarded package manager

[bwkaz]

Had this been posted in an actual "community help" forum, it would have probably just been moved here, not closed.

Since it was posted here, it is not "detracting from users that actually need help", as was posted above.

Therefore, it will not be closed.

Had it been posted in Tech Support, there is a small chance it would have been closed, but probably not -- as I said, it would probably have just been moved here instead.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Hayl
imho, because anything to do with RPMs sucks.

imho, RPM = retarded package manager

i like that its only one command to install as opposed to running several (config, make, etc.), easy to remove, tell you what packages you need, and rpmfind.net makes it easy to find what you need

[Hayl]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
i like that its only one command to install as opposed to running several (config, make, etc.), easy to remove, tell you what packages you need, and rpmfind.net makes it easy to find what you need

portage does the same thing only it compiles from source (which makes for faster apps) and figures out the deps for you.

i.e.

emerge kde

(on a base system) will download the source for and install xfree86, and kde and all their dependancies.

to uninstall an app - gaim in this example:

emerge unmerge gaim

i don't think that you can get easier than that.

[Raoul_Duke]

I think what hayl meant was that although rpms are fine for installing binary packages (we'll forget 'dependancy hell tm' for now) they kinda suck when it comes to having control over them. Debian and Gentoo (hayl's choice of linux) both have excellent package management that do put rpms to shame.

Personally i think if apt-rpm was better supported (ie bigger databases) then it would have a better reputation.

Just my diplomatic $0.02 :p

edit: ok, hayl saw this post first.....sorry :rolleyes:

[CaptainPinko]

yes but if it used rpms then it would be easier to integrate w/ rpm-based distros b/c they could use those src.rpm that the gentoo download and maybe (possibly) use the binaries two! plus what about apps that aren't portaged yet?

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Raoul_Duke
Personally i think if apt-rpm was better supported (ie bigger databases) then it would have a better reputation.


yeah and i found synaptic to be buggy... and i got into dependency hell just trying to install it :rolleyes:

yet i managed to install rpm the first day i started using linux

[Hayl]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
yes but if it used rpms then it would be easier to integrate w/ rpm-based distros b/c they could use those src.rpm that the gentoo download and maybe (possibly) use the binaries two! plus what about apps that aren't portaged yet?

you make your own ebuilds for apps that aren't portaged yet - just like people do with RPMs.

i don't think they are concerned out it being compatible with RPMs - i know i'm not - in fact i switched to debian and gentoo because imho, rpms are annoying/problematic. i don't think that there is any advantage to using a src rpm over a tarball with the source in it.

regarding binary compatibility, gentoo is a source-based metadistribution, they don't really want binary packages.

you should try out gentoo some time and then you will see.

see this thread (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89720&highlight=gentoo) .

[Hayl]

Originally posted by Raoul_Duke
I think what hayl meant was that although rpms are fine for installing binary packages (we'll forget 'dependancy hell tm' for now) they kinda suck when it comes to having control over them. Debian and Gentoo (hayl's choice of linux) both have excellent package management that do put rpms to shame.

Personally i think if apt-rpm was better supported (ie bigger databases) then it would have a better reputation.

Just my diplomatic $0.02 :p

edit: ok, hayl saw this post first.....sorry :rolleyes:

LOL

actually i do like apt-rpm - i have tried that (when i used to run red hat) and it makes it far less annoying and i have heard good things about urpmi.

what's really funny is i have a cron job on my server (debian) that runs:

apt-get update
apt-get -yu upgrade

so i never have to touch it and it is always up-to-date.

well, the other day i wanted to install something on it and it has been months since i touched that box. i forgot how to use apt and LOL. :) i had to really think about what i was doing.

[CaptainPinko]

well i've been thinking about tryingGentoo for a while now (tho src.rpm gentoo would have made this a no brainer ;) ).. how do i find a list of all the different things i can emerge?

[Hayl]

http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/pkgs/index.xml

[hetman]

rpms suck.
you cant install squat without installing a load of dependant rpms first.
apt-get rules.... emerge is nice too.
urpmi is nothing

i with i could use apt-get in mandrake.

[CaptainPinko]

why can't you?

[hetman]

well no, i mean that often with programs you want to install you'll have problems due to dependancies that you have to manually resolve.

with a better packaging system like debians apt, all your dependancies are automatically resolved for you.

[Raoul_Duke]

Originally posted by Hayl
LOL

actually i do like apt-rpm - i have tried that (when i used to run red hat) and it makes it far less annoying and i have heard good things about urpmi.

what's really funny is i have a cron job on my server (debian) that runs:

apt-get update
apt-get -yu upgrade

so i never have to touch it and it is always up-to-date.

well, the other day i wanted to install something on it and it has been months since i touched that box. i forgot how to use apt and LOL. :) i had to really think about what i was doing.

Hehe.........i can relate to that, i had to manually install a program the other day in gentoo that wasn't in portage (just a game installer) and for the first few minutes i just stared at the command line trying to remember what i was supposed to do!

p.s. just for the record, it wasn't an rpm :p

[sasKuatch]

<cheers>
R-P-M!
R-P-M!
R-P-M!
....
</cheers>

:p ;)

I don't really care. I install the rpms that came with 'drake and if I want to add something I just get the source and compile. I tried Debian, but everything is so darn primitive when it comes to well everything (hey, what's the excuse for not having a color-coded shell by default?) that apt-get doesn't stand a chance of outweighing all that.

[MMA]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
<cheers>
R-P-M!
R-P-M!
R-P-M!
....
</cheers>

:p ;)

I don't really care. I install the rpms that came with 'drake and if I want to add something I just get the source and compile. I tried Debian, but everything is so darn primitive when it comes to well everything (hey, what's the excuse for not having a color-coded shell by default?) that apt-get doesn't stand a chance of outweighing all that.


Colour coding? WTF?

Thats got nothing todo with the package manager. Come on man. YOU can change it what ever you want it to look like. its not a SPECIFIC to a distrobutions.

What do you mean by primitive? you mean command line? How long have you been using Linux?
You think just becuase its GUI its MORE advanced? Come on maannn. think. the command line is the one of the GREATEST thing you've ever seen on Linux. Compare it to windows (its DOS). You make your OS fully automatic, without having to know much about programming. Yes, i don't call Bash programming. I call it, a day to day list of commands. I run cron to do what i want, like emerge sync, once a day. It happens in the background. Also i emerge -u world and system. Once ever couple of weeks. Its great.

I have a bash script which i run ever time i start openbox (its better then having it run it everytime openbox starts, i'm in control). I have a number of scripts, which i place in my Menu List so that i can do what ever just by clicking on the menu.
My startup script possitions each term, gkrellm, etc etc in the correct place in my screen.

Look at what you can do with it. All that power in your finger tips. I don't know any programming languages. People who know programming (perl, python) can do a LOT more. These scripts only hold simple commands that i use day to day, in terminal. (eg: cd, rm, cp, etc etc).
Isn't this great of what?
now look at it again and decide what is primitive.

[MMA]

Also...

Originally posted by sasKuatch
that apt-get doesn't stand a chance of outweighing all that.

Out weighing what?
have you really used apt-get? :D:D:D

[sasKuatch]

Haa-hahahaha-ha!!:D :D That was great, you should save that and hand it to a one of those windows know-it-alls.

What I didn't like about Debian was the X config program. I liked Redhat's xconfigurator or whatever it's called. It wouldn't have been a problem if I had saved my config file.

That was great. Great enthusiasm, but relax dude, I've been using linux for nigh on 4 years now, I'm familiar with the perks.

[MMA]

I'm not trying to put you down or anything like that. But its the way you sounded like. It seemed like you just started and are commenting on it without looking at it properly.

Anyway, i've been using it more then a year now :D:D:D

I use xf86config to configure the basics. And then edit it myself to get it just right. I prefer this then using one of those GUI's config programs. I hate Suse's one. MDK's one seems alright. I haven't used the latest Redhat config programs, so i'm not sure about that.