Mandrake 9.0 Install Documentation - Clarify, Please?

[Jaywalker]

While awaiting my Mandrake 9.0 three-CD set from CheapBytes, I'm trying to visualize the process. Maybe I can avoid a scream for help later. :rolleyes:

I'd like to do a "default" install rather than risk the "expert" mode that I know does give better control, but at higher risk.

I'd like to leave the Win98 C: drive (which will become /dev/hda1) as Windows, and put Mandrake onto the second hdd. The second hdd is currently partitioned into D: and E:, and will become /dev/hdb1 and /dev/hdb5, respectively.

I understand MDK will recognize the existing partitions, and I'd prefer to put it in E:/hdb5, assuming it can go into a logical drive in an extended DOS partition. That's not the real issue, though, as I'll put it in either place.

My question is whether the default installation will allow me to put it into either hdb1 or hdb5, or whether I have to be in Expert mode to do this - again, I would much rather avoid this. Newby jitters. The MDK documentation isn't very clear on this issue, and I've unsuccessfully searched both this forum and Google/Linux for resolution.

This quote is from the "Starter" doc, "Selecting the Mount Points:"
If you are running the installation in Expert mode, DrakX will start the Mandrake Linux partitioning tool DiskDrake, allowing you to fine-tune your partitions. See the DiskDrake section in the Starter Guide for details on how to use DiskDrake. From the installation interface, you can use the wizards by clicking the dialog's Wizard button.

If your hard drive has already been partitioned, either from a previous installation of GNU/Linux or by another partitioning tool, select the appropriate partitions that you want to install your Linux system into.

If partitions haven't been configured, you will need to create them using the wizard. Depending on your hard drive configuration, several options are available:

You see, it's unclear as to whether the wizard is availble in default mode. It starts off with "If you are running the installation in Expert mode," but never indicates that it now refers to a default capability. If I were guessing, I'd think the wizard IS NOT available in default. If that's true, then how do I get the install to the scond hdd?

Can anyone clear this up?

Thanks,
Jaywalker

[mdwatts]

I always install my distro using 'Expert Mode' as it gives me greater control over the entire installation process.

Don't let 'expert' deceive you into thinking you have to be a guru to use. You likely need to use expert mode in order to specify hdb as the installation target drive.

[DMR]

In the case where you already have another operating system installed, I'd suggest that the "default" option is actually potentially more dangerous than an "expert" install because if you (or the installer) make one mistake, you could quite easily end up overwriting your existing data. The default mode will automatically make some partitioning choices for you, but there's no guarantee they will be the right choices.

Regardless of which installation mode you choose, I would use Windows' fdisk to remove the existing DOS/Win partitions on hdb, leaving all space on the drive as free/unallocated. The Mandrake installer will detect the free space and create/format your Linux partitions within it. This is a little more reliable (and safer) than installing over existing non-Linux partitions.

[Jaywalker]

Okay, thanks. It wasn't the answer I hoped for, but good advice nonetheless. I will remove the existing partitions from the second hdd before starting. All I have on that 40-gig drive now is a small amount of backup data from the C:\ drive, and I can transfer that to the zip drive instead. I'll use the Expert mode if I have to, but all of those choices and warnings in the Starter guide are worrying.

FWIW, Section 10.10.1 of the Starter guide, I now find, hints that the default mode may let me into the second hdd. A diagram shows a graphic representation of the partition, tabbed, and presumably would also include an "hdb" tab, if the drive were present. What's interesting is the button at the bottom of the screenshot labeled "Toggle to Expert Mode." That implies I get to that point by default. Interesting.

Another small surprise is the lack of a /boot partition. My reading seems to indicate that LILO needs this for dual-boot systems. Curious.

Thanks,
Jaywalker

[DMR]

No need for /boot anymore, that's no longer an issue.

As for the "toggle to expert mode", yes- it will let you do that at the partitioning stage if you want to override the default partitioning scheme with your own. The default will probably just create / and swap.

Even if you stick with the default mode, you should still be allowed to tell the installer to use hdb; it should then just create the default partiitons there instead of on hda.

[Jaywalker]

DMR:
The default will probably just create / and swap.
It looks like default will produce /, /swap, and /home. I guess the /usr isn't as standard as I thought, either.

Thanks,
Jaywalker

[as649453]

In default (recomended) mode, you can select advanced on the partioning screen and select/mount your partition manually. I do that all the time without any problem.

Maybe you can get some useful information by looking at http://www.uselinuxathome.com/ENpart.htm

[DMR]

Originally posted by Jaywalker
DMR:

It looks like default will produce /, /swap, and /home. I guess the /usr isn't as standard as I thought, either.

Thanks,
Jaywalker Default installations usually create separate partitions for some combination of /, /home, swap, and /boot. The other filesystems like /usr, /etc, /var, and /tmp will also be created, but only as directories (under the root partition), not as separate partitions.

As as649453 said however, you can usually do custom partitioning during a default-mode installation. You don't have to do the full custom/expert mode install to get that option.

[Jaywalker]

DMR:Default installations usually create separate partitions for some combination of /, /home, swap, and /boot. The other filesystems like /usr, /etc, /var, and /tmp will also be created, but only as directories (under the root partition), not as separate partitions. Thanks. The Linux.Org Linux 101 lessons had /usr in its own partition, but they were doing a Debian install, not Mandrake. I assumed it was standard acoss the distros - that's what differentiates "research" from "learning," I guess.

as649453, thanks for the link. Yes, it would have saved me a little time. Not all is lost, though - I learned something.

One final issue. Earlier DMR stated that /boot is no longer an issue. Research indicated to me that that was a limitation that kept LILO to the first 1023 cylinders and I believed that was a BIOS limitation. So, it was either not (or not entirely) a BIOS issue, or I'm mixing a couple of different issues again. If it is a BIOS issue, does that imply that I need to do a BIOS update on my five year old Dell?

Thanks again,
Jaywalker

[DMR]

A 1024 cylinder limitation was present both in older BIOSes and earlier versions (pre 2.14?) of lilo.

If your BIOS supports Extended INT13 functions, and you use a version of lilo which supports lba32, you won't need to keep the kernel in a /boot partition below the 1024th cylinder. In fact, you won't even need a /boot partition at all.

Although a bit outdated, the Large-Disk HOWTO (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Large-Disk-HOWTO.html) has a bit more information on the whole issue.

[Jaywalker]

Thanks for the link and the info.
Drives larger than 33.8 GB will not work with kernels older than 2.2.14 / 2.3.21. Since Mandrake 9.0 uses Kernel 2.4.19, I have no worries about this.

I particularly like the part that says, in effect, that the only people troubled by this issue are those who try to fix it!:D

Thanks again,
Jaywalker