Methane power

[sasKuatch]

I am going to try to run my lawn tractor on methane power, and am looking for any support, perhaps in the form of advice from anyone who has tried such things before.

Have any of you worked with gas (literally gas, not gasoline) powered engines?

I've read up on how to make methane and it seems simple. As for the vehicle conversion, is it possible? I've read that all one has to do is to get methane into the carburetor and it should work.

Any advise? Thanks.

[emetib]

haven't personnally worked with gas. i know that for propane all you have to do is change the carb though. this might help a little.

[guitargeek]

I think it stinks! :D

[sasKuatch]

It's supposed to be odorless!

As for the carburetor, I just read some stuff on propane carb conversion and it looks promising. I know methane has a lower BTU rating than propane and natural gas, a little over half, but it should work. Downside is, it's a b!tch to compress at 5,000 psi and hazardous to store uncompressed. Mabe I can find a way around that.

[mychl]

May I ask how you are going to make the methane?

And how will you filter it... if you need to... to get any other gases out of it before you compress it?

Good luck with it too, if you need any help, I'll send you a jar.... :p

[Penrich]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
It's supposed to be odorless!

As for the carburetor, I just read some stuff on propane carb conversion and it looks promising. I know methane has a lower BTU rating than propane and natural gas, a little over half, but it should work. Downside is, it's a b!tch to compress at 5,000 psi and hazardous to store uncompressed. Mabe I can find a way around that. If it is hazardous to store uncompressed, how do you think it is going to be better once compressed? You still have a flammable gas, only now it packed into its very own missile housing too! (I use compressed non-flammable gasses at work, and those cylinders scare me).

PS - This could almost be one of 802.11's posts, except the English is better!

[guitargeek]

PS - This could almost be one of 802.11's posts, except the English is better!

I thought the same thing when I read it.

Sounds like a cool project, though.

[elderdays]

Don't cows burp and fart methane gas of some kind?
If so, get a cow and a garden hose. Connect one end of the hose to the cow, one to the mower. This way you don't have to cut the lawn alone, you'd have your gas, and after a really long time this solution will pay for itself.
If they don't burp and fart methane you could just put the cow in the yard and let him eat the grass.
Either way you'd have all the milk you'd ever want.

[GeekGuy]

I ran an AMC Gremlin on a 16 oz. bottle of propane once when it ran out of gasoline - just fed a vacuum line with it. Ran for 2 blocks :D

[sasKuatch]

Originally posted by Penrich
If it is hazardous to store uncompressed, how do you think it is going to be better once compressed? You still have a flammable gas, only now it packed into its very own missile housing too! (I use compressed non-flammable gasses at work, and those cylinders scare me).

PS - This could almost be one of 802.11's posts, except the English is better!

Well, it's compressed in order to liquify it. As an example, liquid gasoline is flammable, whereas evaporated gasoline is explosive. I'd rather be working with flammable liquids than explosive gases.:)

[sasKuatch]

Originally posted by mychl
May I ask how you are going to make the methane?

And how will you filter it... if you need to... to get any other gases out of it before you compress it?

Good luck with it too, if you need any help, I'll send you a jar.... :p

Here's (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/farmmgt/05002.html) a good primer. Though I don't have livestock, I'm sure any biodegradable organic material will do just fine for a small scale experiment. If I can get enough to cause a small flame I'll be satisfied for a while, and I can perfect my digester later.

[CMonster]

Methane Power (http://www.methane.fsnet.co.uk/)

[windoze killa]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
Well, it's compressed in order to liquify it. As an example, liquid gasoline is flammable, whereas evaporated gasoline is explosive. I'd rather be working with flammable liquids than explosive gases.:)

Liquid gasoline is not flammable. It is only the vapors that burn.

Do a search on the Pogue carby. It will allow your car to get 200MPG. It relies on exactly that process, ensuring the gasoline is converted to a vapor before being sucked into the cylinders.

[guitargeek]

Do a search on the Pogue carby. It will allow your car to get 200MPG. It relies on exactly that process, ensuring the gasoline is converted to a vapor before being sucked into the cylinders.

I spent a while reading sites on it that I found on Google, and it sounds very promising. Actually, I spent more time reading about a guy named Ogle that removed the carb altogether, and gets almost 200 MPH in a Ford Galaxie.

[sasKuatch]

After reading around some more, I've come to share the opinion of some, that methane is good mainly as a stationary power source. And that has given me another idea: Using it as a free power source to charge batteries to use in electric cars (or heating, etc). It's virtually pollution free and economical (from byproducts), and would be great for lightening up the weight power stations would have to pull.

What do guys think?

[CMonster]

It will allow your car to get 200MPG

poo-hahahahahaha!

-yeah, if the car weighs like 20lbs and has a tailwind going downhill-

"work" has been scientifically defined and the amount of potential energy from combustion of a gallon of gasoline is also pretty well known -anyone who believes these carburetor myths should buy some of my perpetual motion machine stock.

[timbobagginsii]

Originally posted by CMonster
poo-hahahahahaha!

-yeah, if the car weighs like 20lbs and has a tailwind going downhill-

"work" has been scientifically defined and the amount of potential energy from combustion of a gallon of gasoline is also pretty well known -anyone who believes these carburetor myths should buy some of my perpetual motion machine stock.

You're selling your shares?
I'll take 'em. Then I'll have control of the company and the world wil be at my feet.
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Gantrep]

Do a search on the Pogue carby. It will allow your car to get 200MPG. It relies on exactly that process, ensuring the gasoline is converted to a vapor before being sucked into the cylinders.


I was intrigued, so I did do a search. This is what I found:
http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/fish3.htm

[windoze killa]

Originally posted by CMonster
poo-hahahahahaha!

-yeah, if the car weighs like 20lbs and has a tailwind going downhill-

"work" has been scientifically defined and the amount of potential energy from combustion of a gallon of gasoline is also pretty well known -anyone who believes these carburetor myths should buy some of my perpetual motion machine stock.

This is correct. You are also assuming that "ALL" of the gasoline is burnt. This is not the case. The gasoline is atomised as it is induced into the combustion chamber in a normal carby system. The Pogue system relies on the fuel being vaporised which is different to atomised. Atomised means it is still a liquid and liquid gasoline doesn't burn. It must be vaporised in the cylinder before it burns and it has been proven that less than 50% of gasoline is burnt. Vaporise it and it is all burnt.

[Gantrep]

windoze killa, did you read the link I supplied in the post directly above yours?

[CMonster]

In a carbureted system the carburetor has two main jobs, to set the fuel/air ratio and to atomize the fuel (break into tiny droplets)

Then much of the fuel is vaporized in the intake manifold before it reaches the intake valve (many intake manifolds are even preheated with exhaust heat until the engine reaches operating temperature). Once the mixture enters the cylinder, any remaining fuel droplets are quickly vaporized with minimal loss.

Anaylsis of exhaust gases, even on non-catalytic vehicles confirm the efficiency of the mixing method and burn -liquid fuel doesn't burn and would therefore be seen in the exhaust as hydrocarbon. While a catalytic converter may mask high hydrocarbon emission, we can see that the emission of hydrocarbon even on non-catalytic vehicles is actually very small, certainly not enough to account for even 1-mile per gallon, that is providing the engine is optimally tuned and has no other mechanical problems.

Exhaust gas anaylsis is a pretty well known science, we know what goes in and we know what comes out and can judge pretty well what the efficiency factor is. Not as much fuel is "wasted" as the average person may believe -the fuel is working hard, but pushing a lot of things around through a lot of resistance.

[windoze killa]

Well I suppose I better take the one off my lawn mower then. It is obviously a myth that I only have to fill it a 3rd of the amount that I used to. Bugger, and I thought it was doing so well.

I am also about 60% into making one for my 1962 Pontiac. I suppose I better stop doing that too.

[CMonster]

Let us know how it goes with your Pontiac when you are 100% into it.

A typical US built lawnmower uses a single cylinder Briggs & Stratton engine is about the worst engineered POS of an internal combustion machine there is -almost anything is an improvement on one of those. I somehow suspect that this is not a Honda mower you are talking about.

[carlywarly]

Petrol engined cars are typically 35% efficient, and diesels are about 45% efficient. Therefore, to get 200 mpg out of a typical petrol engined car, it would have to initially give 65 mpg or so, and afterwards, it would need to be 100% efficient. Therefore, it would magically become silent, and the heater wouldn't work (or the alternator) to produce such efficiency. True? You decide.;)

[sasKuatch]

I don't know why more cars aren't diesel powered. Diesel engines, as CW said, are more more efficient and from my experience also last longer. Plus, diesel fuel is cheaper.

[williamwbishop]

Originally posted by sasKuatch
I don't know why more cars aren't diesel powered. Diesel engines, as CW said, are more more efficient and from my experience also last longer. Plus, diesel fuel is cheaper.

But it is a little dirtier in filling and driving, and so it is not very popular here in the states. In canada and europe they are still very big sellers though.

[sasKuatch]

Originally posted by williamwbishop
But it is a little dirtier in filling and driving, and so it is not very popular here in the states. In canada and europe they are still very big sellers though.

Dirty as in pollution, or messy as in why they have the gloves at the gas station?

[ehawk]

You know, I have just spent several days looking at a bunch of webpages on alternate fuels myself. I've read claims that methane is the easiest to produce...but requires a bit of work to clean up for engine use. Hydrogen would be really cool (electrolyzing water with wind generators), but seems only practicle for large scale situations (didn't read why). Methanol seems really easy to produce and distill. I was drifting toward that idea. I have also looked into how difficult it would be to build home-made Stirling and steam engines to run on whatever fuel (external combustion engines are nice in this respect). I have seen some sites advertising small steam engines (~4 inches in all three dimensions) that can put out powers approaching 1 hp. I don't care about size, but if the average home uses ~1kW averaged over 24 hours, 1 hp or so (746W) running continuously might be enough to supply a households energy needs if it was run efficiently. A furnace running on the same fuel could heat the house. The idea of hybrid vehicles using a Stirling engine (with regenerators, small model ones can have efficiencies ~90%...commercially get ~45-50%) to charge batteries continuously...then use an electric motor to power the car, is really cool. Electric motors have great efficienies (also ~90%) and can supply awesome torques/accelerations. It's said running an electric car is like driving a Corvette with a 2 gallon gas tank (poor battery storage).

Biodiesel is another cool idea. It's pretty easy to make at home, and will run unmodified in any diesel car made after 1992 (got rid of rubber gaskets).

[guitargeek]

Dirty as in pollution, or messy as in why they have the gloves at the gas station?

Pollution.

Where I live, though, diesel is about the same as super-unleaded, so it's not cheaper everywhere.