Linux gamers...a letter to PCGamer [Archive]

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Icarus

12-17-2002, 11:20 AM

I think it is time for us Linux gamers to speak up and speak loadly about using Linux as a gaming platform. I have sent a short, but direct letter to PCGamer about this and encourage everyone to send one to them also.

Next week I will do simular requests to the major game companies that have not taken this step yet. Feel free to copy the following message and make any changes you feel fit to make, and let every Linux gamer know and do the same...with enough pressure these guys will HAVE to fold and give in to us :D
send the email to letters@pcgamer.com
When are you guys going to realize that there are many games today available for Linux and that there is a growing market for such products? Most gamers do not realize that gaming is available on the Linux platform because people like you do not even dare to mention it, like it might ruin your market share or make the free stuff you get from Microsoft stop coming in. I searched your web site for "linux" and the only returns were for Links...how is that even close?

We believe that if you would dedicate (at least a small) section of your monthly magazine to Linux, a lot more gamers would be aware that Linux is a very capable gaming platform. More and more developers are making games with Linux in mind and some are even shipping new releases with the Linux binaries included. The latest would be Unreal Tournament 2003 which has the Linux installer included on the third CD, and I have to say it runs and looks GREAT! I did not even see this fact touched in your review last month, and in the preview for Doom 3 which is also going to ship with Linux support (as mentioned by John Carmack in many other interviews).

The greatest hint that Linux is taking off in gaming is with nVidia. They have been releasing Linux drivers for the last couple of years and their latest release includes support for Pixel and Vertex Shaders (which your reviewers drool over constantly). ATI has also recently started support with drivers for Linux.

We, the Linux gaming community, strongly believe that your magazine should include news and reviews of Linux games and prove to the industry that there IS a demand for such products. We understand that Linux gaming is still under 5% of the market, but we also believe that it is a quickly growing market and hope that developers will think about being competitive and include Linux as a platform in their future plans.

Sincerely,
Steve Ellis
Hardcore gamer and Linux user
now you all know my real name!!:eek:

nextbillgates

12-17-2002, 12:34 PM

Sorry. As much as I want to see Linux become a viable gaming platform, asking a magazine to devote a monthly column to Linux is too much.

What exactly would they write about? The latest NWN delay? The unoptimized UT2K3 OpenGL renderer? A possible Doom 3 port? If anything, a monthly column in a popular gaming magazine will expose how pathetic the Linux gaming scene really is.

Any

12-17-2002, 12:45 PM

I agree with nextbillgates here, Linux just isnt a "very capable gaming platform".

Sure you can get a couple of games but nothing worth playing for more than a few hours.
Where are the Baldurs Gate's, the Half-Lifes, the Age of Empires, the Dark Age of Camelot's?

Any

Knyteguy

12-17-2002, 12:47 PM

are you serious? Just because a game hasn't been ported to linux does NOT mean its not a good gaming platform. If not a section in their magazine, a section on their website would be nice.

Knyteguy

12-17-2002, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by mahdi
I think it is time for us Linux gamers to speak up and speak loadly about using Linux as a gaming platform. I have sent a short, but direct letter to PCGamer about this and encourage everyone to send one to them also.

Next week I will do simular requests to the major game companies that have not taken this step yet. Feel free to copy the following message and make any changes you feel fit to make, and let every Linux gamer know and do the same...with enough pressure these guys will HAVE to fold and give in to us :D
send the email to letters@pcgamer.com
now you all know my real name!!:eek:

I also sent them a letter. :)

Knyteguy

12-17-2002, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by nextbillgates
Sorry. As much as I want to see Linux become a viable gaming platform, asking a magazine to devote a monthly column to Linux is too much.

A section on their website would work as well. And how hard would it to be to write a couple articles up? Just throw in another 3 pages of ads. I requested them for a
1) section in their mag or 2) a section on their magazine.

Any

12-17-2002, 12:59 PM

Originally posted by Knyteguy
are you serious? Just because a game hasn't been ported to linux does NOT mean its not a good gaming platform. If not a section in their magazine, a section on their website would be nice.

I am serious, i dont specifically want the games i listed. But can you give me a good RPG, multiplayer FPS, multiplayer RTS and a MMORPG?

Any

nextbillgates

12-17-2002, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Knyteguy
A section on their website would work as well. And how hard would it to be to write a couple articles up? Just throw in another 3 pages of ads. I requested them for a
1) section in their mag or 2) a section on their magazine.

Even that's asking much. There's really not much to talk about as far as Linux gaming goes. Linux games are ports of Windows games, and almost always have nothing new. So other than release dates, delays, and (maybe) reviews, there's little to talk about. And Linux doesn't have enough upcoming games to make something like that a regular feature.

Until Linux can get more games and/or market share, the most it deserves is a mention of Linux support in the review article.

Icarus

12-17-2002, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by nextbillgates
Even that's asking much. There's really not much to talk about as far as Linux gaming goes. Linux games are ports of Windows games, and almost always have nothing new. So other than release dates, delays, and (maybe) reviews, there's little to talk about. And Linux doesn't have enough upcoming games to make something like that a regular feature.
A half-page column is not asking for very much and there is plenty of news to fill this monthly (www.linuxgames.com for starters)
There are many linux games that have been ported to Windows, Tux Racer is one (which is lots of fun, as silly as it is :p) It would even be nice if PCGamer would even mention some of these are available on Linux. Never have then even hinted about this for UT2003 or Doom3, or even UT in the past! Most people don't think they can even play ANY games on Linux because it is not mentioned...EVER!

Until Linux can get more games and/or market share, the most it deserves is a mention of Linux support in the review article. And that is exactly the goal of this whole thread...:rolleyes:

-edit-
More fuel for the fire ;)
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=1999-01-20-007-05-NW

vbp6us

12-17-2002, 01:57 PM

This is what we need first:

http://www.tuxgames.com/petitions/index.cgi?id=396131&nc=1040147822

sasKuatch

12-17-2002, 08:10 PM

Yeah, just because there aren't many games ported to linux does not make it incapable, nor does a game's 'crappy' OpenGL support *cough* UT2k3 *cough*, which isn't even that bad, IMO.

If it was bogged down with encryption to the point of sluggishness, or if it crashed frequently, then linux would suck as a game OS, but from my experiences, all the native games run faster in linux than they do in windows, so that, for me is an advantage.

tankinan

12-17-2002, 08:28 PM

I would really like to see Maxis port some of their games over to linux. I think a linux version of "The Sims" or "SimCity 4" would be a huge success. I am eagerly waiting for the release of SimCity 4, but my enthusiasm is dampened by the fact it will mean using windows for an extended period of time.

ALLYOURBASE

12-17-2002, 08:42 PM

LETS BOMB THEM WITH E-MAILS FOR A LINUX SECTION IN THERE WEB SITE OR MAGAZINE!

x_Ray

12-17-2002, 09:16 PM

I'm also sending letters. I don't see how anyone can say its asking to much for a little monthly column. Linux is more than capable of being a gaming os, and it needs some backing to get the message out there. Linux gaming will never grow if you don't show any interest in it.

I've also sent sent some letters to some game companies(not that I think it will do much good)voicing my opinion. Mostly to companies that deem linux good enough to port a game server to, but not a client. Why should linux users host games for a bunch of windows gamers, and not even be able to play the game ourselves?

Icarus

12-17-2002, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by ALLYOURBASE
LETS BOMB THEM WITH E-MAILS FOR A LINUX SECTION IN THERE WEB SITE OR MAGAZINE! That's the spirit! :D

That patition at tux games is ok, but the main goal is to have the industry realize that Linux is a viable platform and future development should be considered when making a new game.

I'm sure this is how the Mac users have felt for years also, but we want OUR OS to be supported more then theirs :p

At the very least it would be nice for PCGamer make mention of games that have Linux installers on the disks when they are released/reviewed...there was NO excuse to ignore the fact that UT2003 was/is playable on Linux right out of the box!

Knyteguy

12-17-2002, 09:22 PM

Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Rockefeller and Carnegie both predict that their industrys would be someday extremely big, so they saw this and took advantage of it. The linux community gets bigger every day, and they could post news about linux gaming in general, not just games. They could write about WineX, they could talk about ported games, games that should be ported, and also let users send them news.

Tulluin

12-17-2002, 09:31 PM

Who actually still reads PCGamer? I stopped reading gaming mags when PCXL died...
That, and, next time you write a letter, use 'I' instead of 'we' =/

Knyteguy

12-17-2002, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Tulluin
Who actually still reads PCGamer? I stopped reading gaming mags when PCXL died...
That, and, next time you write a letter, use 'I' instead of 'we' =/

"We, the Linux gaming community"

nothing wrong with that:) His letter represented many of our thoughts anyway.

I have been getting everyone I can to e-mail them. I read them btw, as do thousands (maybe million?) of ppl do.

Icarus

12-17-2002, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by Tulluin
Who actually still reads PCGamer? Me, monthly for the last 5 years:rolleyes:
PCXL wasn't that great, but most them now work at PCGamer. PCXL was like the Junior High of game reviews and PCGamer has a more College like attitude ;)

Originally posted by Knyteguy
"We, the Linux gaming community"

nothing wrong with that His letter represented many of our thoughts anyway. That is how it was ment to sound, a cumlitive suggestion...that's why more people also need to send them simular letters :)

Grognard

12-17-2002, 10:46 PM

Me as well. I see two big problems for Linux as a gaming platform:

a) Dependencies- They suck. Windows, stick the CD in the drive, and it runs. Dependencies are taken care of.

b) Piss poor standard amongst the linux distributions: Mandrake puts things in one directory, Red Hat in another, Debian in another, Slackware yet somewhere else. Until the distributions are more standardized, its not going to be economically feasable to port more than a very few to Linux.

I would dearly love to see linux games come out such as Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, The Operational Art of War, Master of Orion, The Ancient Art of War at Sea, etc. I loathe first person shooters.

Originally posted by mahdi
Me, monthly for the last 5 years:rolleyes:
PCXL wasn't that great, but most them now work at PCGamer. PCXL was like the Junior High of game reviews and PCGamer has a more College like attitude ;)

That is how it was ment to sound, a cumlitive suggestion...that's why more people also need to send them simular letters :)

sharth

12-17-2002, 10:53 PM

/usr/local/games/$game_name/

you can't get much off that. or you can just use /usr/local/$game_name/ and sym link the binaries to /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin. /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin are part of the path for every distro that I know of. /usr/local/ is up to the user's personal choice so it wouldn't kill anyone.

Knyteguy

12-17-2002, 11:00 PM

nextbillgates

12-17-2002, 11:04 PM

a) Dependencies- They suck. Windows, stick the CD in the drive, and it runs. Dependencies are taken care of.

Other than SDL, games shouldn't require anything that it's target audience doesn't already have. And SDL (like DirectX) can be put on the disc.

b) Piss poor standard amongst the linux distributions: Mandrake puts things in one directory, Red Hat in another, Debian in another, Slackware yet somewhere else. Until the distributions are more standardized, its not going to be economically feasable to port more than a very few to Linux.

/opt is there for a reason :)

Icarus

12-18-2002, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by Grognard
Me as well. I see two big problems for Linux as a gaming platform:

a) Dependencies- They suck. Windows, stick the CD in the drive, and it runs. Dependencies are taken care of.

b) Piss poor standard amongst the linux distributions: Mandrake puts things in one directory, Red Hat in another, Debian in another, Slackware yet somewhere else. Until the distributions are more standardized, its not going to be economically feasable to port more than a very few to Linux.

I would dearly love to see linux games come out such as Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, The Operational Art of War, Master of Orion, The Ancient Art of War at Sea, etc. I loathe first person shooters. Dependencies? It sounds like you've been playing too many games for Linux that are still in alpha/beta phases. Most professional Linux games use the Loki installer that will install the games to /usr/local/games and make symlinks to them in /usr/bin. If your distro does not have these very basic setups...you need a new one :)

With all the games I've bought for Linux (including UT with Lokis installer downloaded) I have never had them not work because of some funky file placement (unless I mess it up by deleting the links in /usr/bin)
Yes, all the distros of Linux do their own thing, but they all still keep with the basics.

One of the big things that got me to use Linux all the time was when I found out that UT can run natively and Counter-Strike can work with Wine...I was sold, so now I enjoy both of what I like at the same time...Games and Linux/Unix. And Games are one of the main reasons people don't want to use Linux, they don't want to loose their games (and lame Office Suites ;))

Knyteguy

12-18-2002, 02:23 AM

only reason i'm still running xp at all is that I can't figure out how to work wine:\ I own a counter-strike clan and if I can't play it, I can't lead it:\

[edit] im dual booted mandrake/xp

Icarus

12-18-2002, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Knyteguy
only reason i'm still running xp at all is that I can't figure out how to work wine:\ I own a counter-strike clan and if I can't play it, I can't lead it:\

[edit] im dual booted mandrake/xp If you use WineX to install and use Half-Life/Counter-Strike it is almost transparent. Even the extra lag that Wine generated in the past is almost totally gone! I play CS all the time in Linux and it has been flawless now, even load times has been improved.

Lately I've been playing a lot of Half-Life user mods and have had no problems with any of them either, the zipped ones are the easiest to install but even the exe installs work great :D

Game on! :cool:

aaronhall

01-29-2003, 04:05 AM

I just sent my e-mail to them everyone needs to.. linux can do anything windows can and better!!!

GeekGuy

01-29-2003, 04:13 AM

While not a gamer myself, I have friends who are. I agree that computer magazines have a lot of pull in the industry, just as it is the radio station airplay that make or break artists.

I think a mailbomb scheme is baaaaaaad idea though ;) :p

Icarus

01-29-2003, 10:36 AM

Well, it's been a month and of course they haven't even responded...I haven't gotten the latest issue yet either, did they cancel me? :p

I think it's almost time to hit them again with more of these, I'll probally make another one this weekend and post it hear again...bug them until they give in and give us a page :D

Uberclocker

01-29-2003, 12:47 PM

Change your email address and assume another name or they'll just block you.

Icarus

01-29-2003, 12:57 PM

I have three e-mail accounts at paradoxinc.net, 2 hotmail accounts, and an earthlink account...not to mention work :D

I don't think that will be a problem :D

hlrguy

01-29-2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by nextbillgates
What exactly would they write about? The latest NWN delay? The unoptimized UT2K3 OpenGL renderer? A possible Doom 3 port? If anything, a monthly column in a popular gaming magazine will expose how pathetic the Linux gaming scene really is.

You continue to amaze. Wondering when and were our paths would cross with your Linux sucks we are all stupid theme. Aside from the basic ones that came with the system, I have downloaded and tested about 25 games, 8 or so that are here to stay. I have nvidia and can play SpaceRacer at 1600x1200 on my 21" screen at > 70 frames/sec, 24M colors, everything works and I typically play it WHILE downloading other stuff in the background (56K, I need something to do). I can even shut off the sound and listen to oggs while playing while downloading (otherwise the music and sound affects mix, not for any technical reason). How about all the great games available already. I have the first 2 months ready. How about a review of possibly the best open source flight simulator?

http://www.flightgear.org/

Or how about

http://spaceracer.sourceforge.net/

Here's a column idea...Top places to find Linux games, or Linux drivers for games...the list is endless.

We aren't talking 8 page spread every week, but a 1/3 page column. Not a whole lot to ask.

hlrguy

nextbillgates

02-01-2003, 03:55 AM

I wrote my first post in this thread well over a month ago, and the Linux gaming scene his improved.... somewhat. There's more to talk about, but I still don't think it's enough to fill a monthly section. And while previews on Open Source games could work, one can only write so much about the major ones (Flight Gear, Vega Strike, Tux Racer, etc), and I don't think a commercial magazine would be willing to cover the smaller games with a limited scope and no clear release date.

On a good month, you could maybe fill a Linux column with game previews along with technical tips, but as I said above, all this would really succeed in doing is showing just how pathetic the linux gaming scene is. No one except for the hardcore Linux user is going to choose Space Racer or Chromium over the likes of Battlefield 1942, Warcraft III, etc.

sean_foulkes

02-01-2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by ALLYOURBASE
LETS BOMB THEM WITH E-MAILS FOR A LINUX SECTION IN THERE WEB SITE OR MAGAZINE!

This would be pointless, because once they see all these e-mails saying the same thing, they're going to stop reading them, especially if they include arguments that(let's face it) aren't going to get us a monthly column about linux games.

I have been to places like happy penguin and linuxgames.com and i was severely dissapointed. most of the games are small, 2-dimensional arcade games. NOBODY wants to read about these trivial programs every month in a linux column. Windows games are, in case you haven't noticed, far beyond that, and just because every six months a linux port for a game was released, doesn't mean you can devote six monthly articles to it.

and I certainly won't listen to someone wanting to "BOMB" somebody with e-mails-- especially one that not only posts his system specs in his signature(people don't think your "cooler." they don't look up to you), but he spells his mouse as "Intelle-Mouse". I don't like microsoft, but being illiterate doesn't count as ways to get back at them.

P.S: Intelli-Mouse as "Intelligent" not "Intellegent"