iceWM

[mongoloid001]

I am using iceWM as the window manager since it takes much less space, and so far liked it. Wondering if I should switch to gnome or KDE since they are more popular? I am using a not-so-good vedio card right now:(

[Thanatos]

a window manager isn't the same as a windowing environment (such as KDE or GNOME) ...which I'll let someone else explain. If you're looking for a facelift, try windowmaker or enlightenment. enlightenment is a graphics hog, but it is beautiful. Windowmaker runs superfast without losing the utility of common features. **my WM of choice!

[bwkaz]

If you like iceWM, use it.

If you want to try KDE/kwin or (Gnome/Sawfish, Gnome/Enlightenment, etc.), then go for it. If you like one of them, use it.

If you want to try twm, go ahead. If you like it, use it.

[mongoloid001]

Are you saying iceWM is not the same league as GNOME or KDE? Man, I am definitely switching then. I thought they were all window managers, i.e., X clients.

[bwkaz]

They are all X clients.

KDE includes a window manager (kwin), a sort of taskbar-type thingy (kicker), an application framework (dcop, and other programs like it) to let different apps talk to each other and act consistently, and a couple other things.

Gnome includes all of that (they are different programs, but they do the same things), except for the window manager. You can use any window manager you want with Gnome; I believe Sawfish is the default, but I'm not sure on that.

iceWM is a window manager only; it doesn't have all the inter-application functionality, it doesn't enforce a look-and-feel, it doesn't do anything apart from launch apps that are on its menu, and then manage their windows.

twm only manages windows -- it doesn't have an app menu.

Don't switch based on programs being in "a different league". Switch based on what you like. Try them first, and use what you like.

Seriously.

[mongoloid001]

This is more like a software questions now. But what the heck, we only live once.

So basically if I write a Java Swing program, the default java look-and-feel will prevail under iceWM, but not on KDE or GNOME since they manage their own look-and-feel?

Also I am not sure by what you mean programs talk with each other under KDE and GNOME? Does it mean for example that: if you run Apache web server with MySQL and PHP, the GNOME and KDE will manage the interaction or part of the interaction between them? I think I am not using a very good example...

Thanks a lot!

[bwkaz]

No, sorry, looks like I wasn't too clear on that look-n-feel stuff.

Any KDE apps you write (in C++) will use the KDE look-and-feel. Any Gnome apps you write should use the Gnome L&F. What KDE and Gnome do is provide the framework for a look-and-feel that apps written for them can use. The Swing L&F is different; its behavior is specified by your JVM.

And actually, even under iceWM, if you run a KDE app (kscd, kpat, kghostview, whatever), it will still look like a KDE app. Same with Gnome.

The reason is that X doesn't really have a way to do "look-n-feel", just ways to draw things. Anything using KDE's libraries for graphics will draw its things like other KDE apps; same with Gnome.

As for communication, those aren't really good examples. KDE/Gnome don't provide for any IPC (inter-process communication) for anything other than KDE apps, or Gnome apps. Apache isn't written for either of them, and neither are MySQL or PHP, so they have to use the kernel's IPC facilities to talk (which they do quite well).

However, if you open a terminal window with KDE running (actually, all you need is dcopserver running), and type dcop <args>, you can send DCOP messages to any KDE-type application that's also running at the time (part of the <args> is a class name, or window name, or something like that). There are DCOP messages for resizing windows, moving them, etc. There's probably a reference somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to look (man dcop maybe? worth a shot...).

[mongoloid001]

Yeah, the screen shaked violently! This is what I did:

$ dcop kded

qt
kbuildsyscoca
kded

(Thinking: huh, KDE looks cool today, let me make it default)

KMENU --> Logout

Tumbling, have to guess what the mouse is to cancel the logout dialogue.

[mongoloid001]

Yeah, man dcop doesn't work.

DCOP stands for desktop communication protocal, right.

[mongoloid001]

DCOP is KDE's interprocess communication (IPC)/remote procedure call (RPC) technology. DCOP provides a simple protocol with authentication over TCP/IP or Unix domain sockets. Two new complementary tutorials on DCOP have just been made available at the KDE developer site. The first one, written by Richard Moore and entitled Creating a DCOP Interface, explains how to add a DCOP interface to a simple KDE application, and illustrates how it can be used. According to Richard, "Adding the interface is easy. The example defines a number of methods of different types, and as you'll see all these methods can be quickly used via DCOP." The second one, written by Olaf Zanger and entitled Automation of KDE2, introduces DCOP as an automation interface (e.g., using scripts to access another application's DCOP interface). According to Olaf, the tutorial is useful to "learn how to access features you used to tackle with your mouse or key-combinations with your favourite scripting environment."