GUI builder recommendataions

[AdaHacker]

I've been meaning to try my hand at GUI programming in Linux for a while now. I'm stuck writing VB at work, and I'd like to be able to do the same kind of things in an OS I actually like to use.

Now, being inherently lazy, I'm looking for something which, like Visual Studio (shudder), will basically build all the GUI code for me and just let me plug in the interesting parts. Any recommendations? I've messed around with Glade a bit, and it looks nice. I've also heard good things about kdevelop and Kylix (Pascal based languages good).

On a related note, I'm using Glade 0.6.2, which doesn't seem to support the Ada95 bindings for Gtk+ (at least, it didn't pick them up when I tested it, and the GtkAda docs only mention support for up to 0.5.9). I was thinking of downgrading (or just installing 2 versions). Any reason not to, or anything that I might want that isn't supported?

[klamath]

Why not hack glade to support the latest Ada bindings? If you know any C, it should be pretty easy.

[AdaHacker]

Originally posted by klamath:
<STRONG>Why not hack glade to support the latest Ada bindings? If you know any C, it should be pretty easy.</STRONG>

Ha! That's a good one! It's always "pretty easy" in theory. Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor the knowledge to do that. The only C I know I picked up from C++, and I was never more than a beginner in that - and it's been over two years since I used it. (Besides, if I knew any C, I'd just write in C using Glade. It'd be a lot easier) I have no idea where to look for the code I'd need to change (talk about your unhelpful error messages), but that doesn't matter, since Glade generates it from its XML project files, which I don't know the first thing about anyway! Yeah I could do it, but only if I want to turn this into a major project, which I don't. Of course, if you wanted to do it, I would be incredibly greatful....

[ 22 October 2001: Message edited by: AdaHacker ]

[AdaHacker]

Oops. Never mind the Glade/GtkAda problem. I must have been in a catatonic stupor when I was testing it out. Turns out the libraries were installed in /usr/lib, which, for some reason, wasn't in /etc/ld.so.conf. I guess I must have just assumed it would be in there (seems reasonable enough). Boy, do I feel like a first-class moron.

But, anyway, what about the first half of my question? What other RAD tools are there for Linux? Has anyone used any of them, and are they any good? Like I said, I'd like to do some GUI programming, but I don't want to spend a lot of time on the interface code.

[TheLinuxDuck]

AdaHacker:

I don't have extensive knowledge of GUI work, but have lately been using java alot. Swing is really easy to use, for the most part.. there is a learning curve, as with anything, but I find it to be quite rewarding. You don't have to do much work to get something decent out of it.. with the java docs, the java tutorial available from sun, and some of the handy example at www.codeexamples.org, (http://www.codeexamples.org,) it should be easy enough to jump in with both feet.

Just an idea... (^=

[klamath]

TLD -- I think he's looking for a GUI builder, not a toolkit.

There are plenty to choose from, although finding bindings to Ada is going to be quite tricky. Glade, Qt Designer, I think The Kompany makes one, QtEZ, etc. Search @ freshmeat or sourceforge. As you mentioned, Kylix is also possible, although that is semi-proprietary and Pascal-only, AFAIK.

Kdevelop is an IDE, AFAIK -- I didn't know it included a GUI builder component.

My suggestion is to go with Glade.

Besides, if I knew any C, I'd just write in C using Glade. It'd be a lot easier

Except that C is a horrible application development language.

[bwkaz]

And once you learn the hard way of doing Swing, look at Borland JBuilder Personal for Linux, it's free (as in beer, but I don't think as in speech) for download, and it does the RAD GUI stuff for you, if you set your project up right (i.e. don't just open it up and create one .java file, you have to actually create a project).

[AdaHacker]

Originally posted by klamath:
<STRONG>
Kdevelop is an IDE, AFAIK -- I didn't know it included a GUI builder component.
</STRONG>
I heard someplace that it did GUI design. Looking through it, though, all I see is the Qt Designer, which must be what they were refering to. Not quite part of KDevelop, but looks fairly nice.
<STRONG>
Except that C is a horrible application development language.</STRONG>
I'll drink to that! Debugging C++ was a big enough pain, I'd hate to see pure C (although I've heard the horror stories).

Ada bindings are not a must, although I do love the Glade people for supporting them. I'm resigned to the fact that, eventually, I'll have to brush up on my C++ and learn some Java. They are marketable skills and commonly used, after all. I mainly just wanted to know what were the best tools going, regardless of language.

I think I may just stick with Glade for now. It's got support for plenty of languages if I want to branch out, and, from what I've heard, Gtk+ is fairly easy to learn. Can anyone vouch for that?
That's what I'm really looking for - something that will basically get me going with a quick and dirty GUI without too much work or having to learn any complicated APIs. I mean, I'm not looking to do anything real high-end here, just a few small things for my own benefit and to do some coding outside the land of VB. (God, do I hate VB!) I want a good GUI builder mainly because I really, really hate UI design, even when I'm doing it with a GUI builder. I can't imagine being able to maintain interest if I had to do it without one.

[klamath]

BTW, why did you choose to hack with Ada? Most people that I've talked to about it are not exactly fond of the language... just curious ;-)

I think I may just stick with Glade for now. It's got support for plenty of languages if I want to branch out, and, from what I've heard, Gtk+ is fairly easy to learn. Can anyone vouch for that?

Yeah, Glade is nice. GTK+ is fairly easy to learn -- there is a LOT of stuff you can do with it, and a large API, but it's layed out very logically and uses the same concepts throughout, so once you "get" the basic idea it's smooth sailing.

If you're interested in using GTK+ with a cool VHLL language, try Ruby -- www.ruby-lang.org (http://www.ruby-lang.org) , the GTK+ bindings are at ruby-gnome.sf.net (I maintain them).

Ada bindings are not a must, although I do love the Glade people for supporting them. I'm resigned to the fact that, eventually, I'll have to brush up on my C++ and learn some Java. They are marketable skills and commonly used, after all. I mainly just wanted to know what were the best tools going, regardless of language.

If you're interested in "cool" languages (not the most commercially valuable ones), check out LISP, Dylan and OCaml. All 3 are very cool (as well as Ruby, which I mentioned before).

Java is easy -- once you "get" OOP, you can pick it up in a snap. It gets a bit tricky to learn the alphabet soup that surrounds it though -- there are SO MANY different "enterprise" APIs. I'm doing a small consulting project right now that involves Java (plus Oracle, XML-RPC and Velocity) -- it's very interesting, even though I'm not an enormous fan of the Java language itself.

[AdaHacker]

Oh, if only I had time for random cool languages. Unfortunately, the cool ones will have to wait, as it's the marketable, career advancing ones that are a priority right now. But when I get the free time, I'm going straight for INTERCAL, because addition operators are for weaklings! ;)

Originally posted by klamath:
<STRONG>BTW, why did you choose to hack with Ada? Most people that I've talked to about it are not exactly fond of the language... just curious ;-)
</STRONG>
I was kind of wondering if/when someone would ask. I'm not really sure why more people don't like it. I mean, it isn't like the military selected it just to be sadistic. Maybe it's just bias against Pascal based languages. Who knows?
Actually, I find it a much nicer language than, say, C/C++. Ada 95 has object orientation (and a nice packaging system to go with it), exception handling, and the various other features you need in a modern language. The syntax is much clearer and easier to read. It's got very strong typing and lots of runtime checking, which are very helpful in debugging. There have actually been studies done showing that Ada is faster and cheaper to develop than C. But you can read all that at adahome.com.
Basically, I like it because it's cleaner and easier to write/read than C++, but stil has just as much power.