Microsoft exec calls Linux a threat to Innovation (laugh)

[Fandelem]

actually, i laughed more on this line:


"We can build a better product than Linux," he said. "There is always something enamoring about thinking you can get something for free."


riiiiiiiight. i think he's confusing this with the saying, "why pay for something [microsoft] when you can get for free" =)


Microsoft has told U.S. lawmakers of its concern while discussing protection of intellectual property rights.


This is just another wording for, "We're losing money because of open source!"


this article was a complete joke. and what is more frightening is the reality of this situation: most lawmakers/policymakers are ignorant to what *we* know, and in the long run, will listen to trustable, dependable microsoft. mark my words ;o)

(not to mention microsoft has like ten times more lawyers to help them out and the money to back up bribes with ;o)

my .02 cents

~kyle

[andrzej]

ROFL :eek: :rolleyes:

That opinion is not worth any comments.

The part about lawmakers was too funny: do they want to _prohibit_ giving things away for free !? Hmmm, you have some kind of constitution in the US, right ? ;)

I've no idea how would they impose such law on other countries. MS is definitely the world's funniest company. I think I will start buying their software... because of pity. (someone correct my grammar, please! :o )

[tnordloh]

Which is more valuable? The ones or the zeroes?

[Unruly]

The microsoft holographic, gold foil seal of bill gate's personal approval.

[Bowtie]

Is M$ fscking nuts??? Oh yeah, we know the answer to that one. To me they are acting like the little kindergarten bully. As long as they get their way messing with everyone else, everything is fine and dandy. However, as soon as something comes along to threaten it's routine, it runs and tells the teacher. What a bunch of poodledicks putzs. The scary part is the fact that they can actually do something about the open source in the US with all of the clout they have. But I have a feeling that if they do that, they will be in the crackers crosshairs every day.... :D I just don't get it.

Johnny

[moose]

I actually kinda liked this article. I honestly shows how scared M$ has become and how they have realized that they can't "beat" (as in create a better OS) than Linux, so they realize they must change strategy in order to combat a superior OS. I think it's kinda interesting...

I'm expecting one of these days for Microsoft to go to lawmakers and say..."What's this we're hearing about everyone in this country getting free air? We've got air that EVERYONE should be using...our tests show that it causes one major organ in the body to fail per week, but overall it's much better than the free stuff...since we've made it easier to use! And we have doctors that are working the bugs out of it...every couple of months...fixes for the old air will be available....and every year or so...we will require people to upgrade to an even better air!"

:)

[knute]

The funniest thing that I found about that article is the 'intellectual property' part...

What did they come up for the idea of computers themselves?

Or did they actually think up an OS that works?

I'ld have to say no on both counts....

Just cause linux can look like windows, doesn't mean that they operate the same.

[nanode]

I suggest we go for the MS jugular while they're in shock. They represent one of the most powerful entities in the world today. We can't afford to under estimate their means or ability.

The Linux community and perhaps open source as a whole - needs to develop a formal committee, or some org. that acts as a PR firm for the cause.

Of course it'd be impossible to accurately speak for everyone - but the grass roots nature of the open source community will try to be discreditted.

Options:

A) go public and play as they do
B) digital guerilla warfare

either way, action is needed

[ 16 February 2001: Message edited by: nanode ]

[Stuka]

/me slaps 1's and 0's all over me (camo for digital guerrilla warfare!).
Actually, I'm workin' on it myself here - I'm campaigning for use of Linux in our (M$/Novell) office, and actually am getting some response - the fact that Linux can make a backup of our files that works (as opposed to the tape backups we'd been doing) is a big help.

[Fandelem]

A) go public and play as they do


we don't want to stoop to their level though. but i agree, we should do *something* more than what we are doing now (as far as PR goes). we've put a big dent into their market (20ish percent) and it will probably keep growing.

if you're running a business, would you rather pay someone to admin a great, stable piece of software, or would you like incompetent admins who can only point-and-click in a windows where you spend just about the same amount of money on all the different peices of software? :D

~kyle

[Nova Z]

"we've put a big dent into their market (20ish percent)"

Actually, the dent is more like 5%.

And MS is right... if no one can make money off of a product, they aren't going to waste time dealing with it.

Not to mention that windows, and MS products, are a way more polished version of an OS and software than anything I've seen in linux to date.

[Sensei]

MS believes if we dont follow the MS way we should all hit the highway.

However we all give the big fsck you to them though and they still don't get it. :p

[Craig McPherson]

Originally posted by Nova Z:
"we've put a big dent into their market (20ish percent)"

Actually, the dent is more like 5%.

Not on the server market. That's where Linux is really tearing into Microsoft.

Linux and WinNT are about neck-and-neck in terms of server usage.

No, Linux on the desktop is never going to destroy Microsoft. Linux on the desktop is never going to be anything other than a geek toy. And that's a good thing. If Linux ever tried to be anything on the desktop OTHER than a geek toy, it'd no longer be worth crap as a server, or as a geek toy, and it would lose the two things it's good at. I hope Debian adopts the BSD kernel or another kernel soon, because nearly everything associated with the Linux kernel is turning into a lame half-arsed Windows clone and losing any ability to be used as a decent server or geek toy. Debian is our one hope for the future, but it needs to divorce itself from Linux before it gets corrupted also.

[Apostata]

We can all sit back and read this stuff with amusement, but this is just the beginning of M$'s war with linux.
It won't be that amusing six months from now, when they stop the hand-wringing act and show their horns.

[Fandelem]

honestly, i think linux should go for more server development, and leave desktop and home-environments to windows. i admit, i use windows way more during the day than linux. i, however, do all my admining and server related stuff on linux. it works excellent. i don't see how there can be some agreement reached ;o)

and yes, the 20ish percent was relating to server dents :}

~kyle

[Sterling]

Originally posted by Fandelem:
honestly, i think linux should go for more server development, and leave desktop and home-environments to windows. i admit, i use windows way more during the day than linux. i, however, do all my admining and server related stuff on linux. it works excellent. i don't see how there can be some agreement reached ;o)

First: making an agreement with Microsoft is suicide.

Second: How, exactly, do you propose that we stop all the people intent on making a cool Linux desktop from doing so? I DO use Linux on my desktop, because I find it far more stable than Windows and like the options it gives me for development. I know a lot of people who are too fed up with Windows, like what they've used of Linux, and want to switch.

And remember that the GNOME project is producing a desktop usable on other POSIX systems. It works on BSD, and I seem to remember that Sun's adopted it for its next-gen desktop.

[GuruWannabe]

Originally posted by Craig McPherson:
No, Linux on the desktop is never going to destroy Microsoft. Linux on the desktop is never going to be anything other than a geek toy. And that's a good thing. If Linux ever tried to be anything on the desktop OTHER than a geek toy, it'd no longer be worth crap as a server, or as a geek toy, and it would lose the two things it's good at. I hope Debian adopts the BSD kernel or another kernel soon, because nearly everything associated with the Linux kernel is turning into a lame half-arsed Windows clone and losing any ability to be used as a decent server or geek toy. Debian is our one hope for the future, but it needs to divorce itself from Linux before it gets corrupted also.

Mandrake 7.2 has already lost any ability to be used as a decent server or geek toy. The latest feature is a default login: when you boot up, it logs in for you! WTF???

Anyway, those of us who need decent servers or geeks toys will still have the ultimate: FreeBSD!

[GuruWannabe]

Originally posted by andrzej:
ROFL :eek: :rolleyes:

That opinion is not worth any comments.

The part about lawmakers was too funny: do they want to _prohibit_ giving things away for free !? Hmmm, you have some kind of constitution in the US, right ? ;)

I've no idea how would they impose such law on other countries. MS is definitely the world's funniest company. I think I will start buying their software... because of pity. (someone correct my grammar, please! :o )

We do have a constitution here. Unfortunately, I practice it means what the Supreme Court says it means. The problem is our Supreme Court justices are nominated by the President and confirmed by Congress. This is basically letting the fox choose the henhouse guards.

[vvx]

Originally posted by Nova Z:
"we've put a big dent into their market (20ish percent)"

Actually, the dent is more like 5%.

And MS is right... if no one can make money off of a product, they aren't going to waste time dealing with it.

Not to mention that windows, and MS products, are a way more polished version of an OS and software than anything I've seen in linux to date.

Yes, much more polished, ofcourse don't they have a whole team of zombies working on the blue screens layout alone?

[debiandude]

That was pretty low. I find it especially intreguing that they say that they (microsoft) can make a better product. Does that mean that they chose not to, or that they are amiting that they don't have the superior product now.

And in response to Craig's post. I really don't believe that Linux is being corrupted into anthing close to the stupidity level assoicated with Microsoft. I do realize that their is a dumbning to some effect, but that is really only I believe, becaues we are lazy and these improvements involve less effort. We don't have things touting the "easiest just got easier" or something like that. Personally I don't think using a computer et al. is really difficult at all. The difficutly comes in with trying to get all that you can out of the os. Trying to run a successful web server, pop and smtp servers, configuring cron, etc.. The average person probably dons't care or choses not to do these things. So in reality I don't think a person that got Linux installed on his computer instead of Windows would really see much of a differnce as long as he could play Quake. The people who know the difference are the people who want to do those things, and as long as those people exist I don't believe we have to worry about Linux being corrupted and going into obscurity.

[Hartmann]

I think old Billy Boy is starting to sweat...... I mean Linux is really becoming mainstream, when I go to school everyday my mom gets on and uses StarOffice and plays all the games on my comp... LOL!! :D

[bobtcowboy]

Originally posted by Craig McPherson:

No, Linux on the desktop is never going to destroy Microsoft. Linux on the desktop is never going to be anything other than a geek toy. And that's a good thing. If Linux ever tried to be anything on the desktop OTHER than a geek toy, it'd no longer be worth crap as a server, or as a geek toy, and it would lose the two things it's good at.

I gotta disagree with you, Craig. Linux makes a great desktop... one of the greatest things about it is that you can start off with handholding and move your way up to guru status. A sort of move from Mandrake to Debian/Slack... this is not killing Linux. Making Linux more user friendly does not make it less usable as a server, and I have no idea what gives you that impression.


From larryliberty:
Mandrake 7.2 has already lost any ability to be used as a decent server or geek toy. The latest feature is a default login: when you boot up, it logs in for you! WTF???


:rolleyes:

Why is this a bad thing? It doesn't log in as root. Mandrake isn't designed with a webserver in mind, but that doesn't mean that it can't *be* a webserver... where is the confusion... all you have to do is edit a few files and Mandrake won't do it anymore, its not all that challenging for someone who is getting ready to set up a server anyways. Mandrake didn't take the server away, it added a level of user friendly-ness. And thats not a crime. The people who appreciate that auto-login are the ones who haven't been playing with linux for years. Or the people who are the only user on their system. Obviously its not a good way to admin a system, but I personally don't need to be a sysadmin right now.

Remember, Linux doesn't cater to just your needs. It caters to its own. If you don't like the direction Linus' kernel is going, there's always the option of going with the new kernel "Servus" or "Elitist" whatever you'd like to call it.

Bill

[nanode]

TIME OUT!

The cool thing about Linux is that it can be all things to all people. Let's not forget about embedded systems, clustering and all the other applications aside from servers and desktops.

When I say "Linux" I generally refer to the kernel that we use in our Linux distro. It's quite possible that the kernel could evolve in a specific direction (desktop etc), but I think it's greatest attribute, is that it is generic and extensible.

Any work to the kernel that inhibits any of its present functionality would be a mistake (read as don't compromise security to make easier... etc.)

Years ago, MS established that the real power in the computer world was software. At the time this was a huge shift away from the IBM world of "big-iron" hardware.

If better software is available for Linux, people will use Linux.

[Tyr-7BE]

Does this really frustrate anyone else? What I wouldn't give to be able to shatter MS's claims (and they're no more than claims) as they're being made. The problem with this is that MS's statements will prevent a lot of linux conversions (exactly as they've planned it). People will see this, and figure "Oh well...I guess Windows isn't so bad...and linux is supposed to be really hard!" or "MS offers us MSCE's. Linux has no tech-support", completely forgetting about online documentation such as LNO. It's not the statements that make me indescribably angry...it's the fact that MS is using its billions to directly interfere with the evolution of Linux. Does this seem a little familiar to anyone else? Where most companies try to compete in the marketplace, MS is the only one I know of which actively attempts to destroy the competition in addition to marketing their products. Look at the packaging of Internet Exploder with Windows...it's KILLED Netscape. MS is the little weiner who's trying to win the race, realizes that he can't do it, so he sets traps so that all the other runners will fall and break their legs. The weiner wins the race, but the best runner didn't win. :mad:

[Sterling]

Want a real laugh? Read Microsoft's "clarification" of Allchin's statements. It turns out that they like the BSD license, but think the GPL was sent to cause death and destruction by an evil space goat coming to eat the world. (My words, not theirs) Not surprising, they got most of their networking tools from BSDed code. (Run strings on the Windows ftp program, for example.) And that they were only talking about "taxpayer-funded" how software development. (Presumably, funded by the "Microsoft tax" on new computers) I wonder if they'll consider doing a comedy show at the next big Linux con?

[ 21 February 2001: Message edited by: Sterling ]

[tnordloh]

GPL has existed for centuries. Some of our most honored ancestors gave away their concepts.

Imagine the state of the world if Pythagoras had spent his whole life patenting his ideas, or if Newton refused to disclose Calculus, instead only giving us charts generated by it? If Newton charged a fee to allow anyone to use his 'intellectual property', where would Einstein be? The idea of each person having to reinvent the wheel is more wrong than any copyright violation could ever be. We are all deeply indebted to the idea of shared knowledge, back to the first human to use fire and share it with the tribe. GPL isn't the american way at all, it's the human way and in the end it's the only way.


The American way is to give to those who need it, and to those you love.

From the beginning of life, the best things in life are free. Imagine if our mothers gave us a running credit line for their milk. If our fathers patented the swing of a bat and charged us per swing. If God himself came down and charged us a 'pay per day' living fee.

The most essential concept of America is the idea of freedom. Of course getting something for free is enamoring. It's why we give gifts to our loved ones at Christmas. Anyone who participates in the free software isn't just saying 'look at this clever software'. They are giving the gift of their time and thoughts to the world. Those who participate in free collaboration are enlightened.

cleaned up a little

[ 02 March 2001: Message edited by: tnordloh ]