Microsoft Vista Wow

[NecroLin]

I got a new HP Pavilion tx1000 almost 2 months ago featuring Windows Vista.

I dropped the Ubuntu Live CD into the drive and was surprised to see that it ran faster from CD than Windows runs from hard drive.... WOW.

I downloaded Aptana IDE (Really nice web IDE for xhtml/javascript/ruby) and unzipped it using the software provided by both systems. Total unzip time (I used a stop watch)
Linux 8 seconds
Vista 11 MINUTES and change.... holly WOW:eek:

Vista can't seem to find most of my email addresses. They're in the address book, but they don't autocomplete and when I run a search for the address or person's name they just don't come up (and yes I can scroll down the list and find the person myself but that's just so 80's)... Wow

Vista uses 600 MB of RAM doing absolutely nothing.... WOW squared.

You see. They didn't lie when they said that Vista will make you go "WOW"... :D

[Pafnoutios]

The word vista makes me think of one of those narrow Eurapean roads that wind around through the mountains overlooking big cliffs. I'd say Microsoft went over the edge.

[webwolf]

You see. They didn't lie when they said that Vista will make you go "WOW"... :D
At least you can't call it false advertising :rolleyes:

[The Coder]

I played with it for five minutes and I couldn't find any programs. I couldn't even find the calculator and had to do a search. It drove me crazy, in just 5 minutes WOW ! And they have the nerve to say others are copying there code?? Why would someone want to copy broken code??:rolleyes:

[asarch]

Take a look on this document from FSF's Bad Vista campaign:

What's wrong with Microsoft Windows Vista? (http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista)

Among other things, they say that:


They want you to buy new hardware not because you need it, but because your computer needs it in order to be more effective at restricting what you do.
And that's the answer for your:


Vista uses 600 MB of RAM doing absolutely nothing.... WOW squared.

[bs_texas]

I recently installed Vista on a Dell GX520 on a project box at work. I like it OK so far. I have AVG running, and folding@home, and the sidebar with a couple of gadgets, and Firefox and task manager tells me it's only using about 480MB of memory.

I like having a Services tab in the Task Manager. The Computer Management MMC console has extra features in it now also.

This computer only rates a 2.0 on the Vista Experience rating thingy. But, that's because of the integrated video with only 8MB of shared memory!

I clicked on the button that used be the Start button and clicked on Programs / Accessories and there was the Calculator where it's always been.

Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention, the guy next to me keeps saying, "Damn Vista!" "Dang it Vista!" "Crap... Stupid Vista." :rolleyes:

[infiniphunk]

A really pretty female student came in not so long ago with her new laptop. She needed help with the WEP key to get in the college network. I dare say getting to wireless settings was easier than I recall it being on XP. The glassy translucent effect on windows and menus also gave it that spruced up new look.
I suspect that for Microsoft's next Windows release, you won't even have to know how to read to use it.

[Parcival]

I suspect that for Microsoft's next Windows release, you won't even have to know how to read to use it.

For the next Windows release, you will probably be able to refer directly to the OS X manual. ;)

[klackenfus]

For the next Windows release, you will probably be able to refer directly to the OS X manual.

Once again:

V - Very
I - Interesting
S - Similiarites
T - To
A - Apple

[nikodell]

I gave Vista a try and found it slow and it had a great lack of drivers just like XP64 has a great lack in that area.
So to do everything in Windoze you need all 3 versions XP"printing scanning tvcard" XP64"better with games" VISTA "slow eye candy"
How much GB will that take up?

[funnybug]

My wife's new Acer laptop had it preloaded. She likes it, and she's seriously pc-challenged, so I think there's a market for it. It has pretty icons :)

[nikodell]

Yes most of the challenged I know want it. My school is recommending that students stay away from Vista as there have been problems with data loss. They recommend if you have to use it to all ways save to external media and ftp file serve.

[Parcival]

My wife's new Acer laptop had it preloaded. She likes it, and she's seriously pc-challenged, so I think there's a market for it. It has pretty icons :)

Even if a user happens to like the Vista experience, there's no reason to shackle and slow one's computer with the built in DRM. Reasons why can be found here (http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows.html) and here (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136227).

[xrx]

If its a matter of them liking the look, don't forget its possible to make linux look (http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=49149&file1=49149-1.jpg&file2=49149-2.jpg&file3=&name=Mandriva+Vista) a bit (http://gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/57352-1.jpg) like (http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/58034-1.jpg) vista (http://www.kde-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre1/42875-1.jpg), although the issues asarch highlighted from GNU website is obviously more important.

[Ludootje]

I downloaded Aptana IDE (Really nice web IDE for xhtml/javascript/ruby) and unzipped it using the software provided by both systems. Total unzip time (I used a stop watch)
Linux 8 seconds
Vista 11 MINUTES and change.... holly WOW:eek:

While I can imagine the other points you mentioned, this simply isn't possible. I'm not advocating Vista or anything, but you must've done something wrong there. That's simply not possible, IMHO.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

NecroLin: I love your passion for Linux, but honestly, something ISN'T right with the setup you are on right now: Ludootje was right on. But really, on the right computer (read: on the right computer) Vista is really a great experience (unless you are simply totally anti-windows). I love Linux as much as the next guy (I am a unix admin by trade, and could never use anything besides a linux server, personally ), but I have had nothing but good experiences with Vista as a desktop OS so far: everything just works like I want it to.

I am trying not to be an ***, but you really should try to figure out what is going on with your setup that something is running that slow instead of bitcing about it in a forum like a zealot. The problem could easily be the amount of ram that you are running on: that is one thing that Vista really tends to eat up.

[knute]

At one point I was working in an IT department for an engineering firm.
The head of IT was just DROOLING over Vista because she could lock the users down more like it was when NT was first out.
Though, I must say, that I DID find hardware that would run XP like any decent operating system (dual xenon with a couple of gigs of ram and a HUGE dual monitor video card system that's used for graphically intensive engineering apps). Yeah, windows ran almost as fast as my gentoo system at home on a 733 with 512 mb ram.
Needless to say, I was slightly impressed, if I do say so myself.

As for Vista, well, everything is driven by money, including the computer business. They intentionally add bloat and call it "newer and better" when all they are after is forcing people to buy more hardware with their OS on it. (And the worst part is when they have an expiration date built into the operating system to cause the computer to simply stop working! :mad: )

[blackbelt_jones]

(And the worst part is when they have an expiration date built into the operating system to cause the computer to simply stop working! :mad: )

WHAT?:eek:

[NecroLin]

While I can imagine the other points you mentioned, this simply isn't possible. I'm not advocating Vista or anything, but you must've done something wrong there. That's simply not possible, IMHO.

You don't have to believe me, just try it out yourself. It's an easy experiment. The only rule is to use what comes with the system. Right click and choose extract. Use a stopwatch and time it. You'll be surprised.

[NecroLin]

NecroLin: I am trying not to be an ***, but you really should try to figure out what is going on with your setup that something is running that slow instead of bitcing about it in a forum like a zealot. The problem could easily be the amount of ram that you are running on: that is one thing that Vista really tends to eat up.

Lighten up a little bit. There's a big difference between "bit**ing" and taking a bad experience and relating it in a light humorous way.

I've got a gig of ram in the computer and had a flash drive running on "ReadyBoost" or whatever the function name is. Almost all of the hardware scores well except for the graphics card which scores a 3 (nVidia GeForce Go 6150 with Shared Graphics Memory). If it was misconfigured by HP then so be it. I don't know what the problem was, but the problem is solved. I installed Ubuntu and everything works. Not being a zealot, it was just a solution that worked for me.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

I know, but that's like saying 'my Chevy impala goes 0-60 in 9 seconds, but my Ford Focus maxes out at 32 MPH'... something is obviously wrong with the Ford (namely, Vista). I wouldn't go around telling everyone that Ford cars are incapable of breaching 32 MPH. Unless I was in a Chevy forum... never mind, you win.

[bosox79]

:) Vista is not going to touch any of my home system without a VM and the only reason I even mess with vista is because at work the new machines we are getting will likely have vista. so I have to be familiar with it.

Thank goodness for VM's :) and on a related note any eye candy that Vista may offer I already have on my system because of Beryl.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

I think everyone hates me now....

Look, I like Vista, I like Linux. I have had better luck with Linux servers than windows servers. I have had better luck with Windows for desktops and gaming. They both have their merits, regardless of how you look at it. I just hate having to deal with computer OS-ism.

[bosox79]

Beast,

I understand how ya feel and I am all for using the best OS for the job. your doing:)

[Parcival]

I think everyone hates me now....

Nah, hate is pointless. I have to repeat that freedom of choice also means the freedom to choose Windows Vista if one wants to. I just don't get the point of choosing a DRMed system. My computer has to put my needs first and not those of the hardware and movie industry.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

By DRMed, you mean that the media files when imported through the media players contain DRM? Or the entire OS is DRMed? Because I dislike DRM as little as the next guy, but I am pretty sure that the lack of video and the FLAC-encoded audio on my computer leave me all but protected. Just wondering why you are calling it a "DRMed" system.

[Pafnoutios]

It's not just the media, but the software we buy (games) also.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

What do you mean by DRMed? If you mean 'copy protected', I am totally OK with that. Except for prohibiting backups, the only thing 'no copy protection' does is take money away from where it's due (even if the games are overpriced, thats the price they ask, and if people buy at that price, congrats to the game designer; they probably made a good product). If you don't like it, don't buy it. But especially don't pirate it. Maybe that's just me though.

[Parcival]

By DRMed, you mean that the media files when imported through the media players contain DRM? Or the entire OS is DRMed?

The entire OS.

So far, DRM had one weak spot: while it was possible to create DRMed media files and DRMed players, the transmission to the end device was still unprotected. It was possible to buy one DRMed copy of a song, play it on your computer, catch the signal on its way to the speakers, and encode it back into a free OGG file. In order to prevent this, the solution lies in DRMed hardware in tune with a DRMed OS.

Currently Apple is the big player in the music market and Microsoft is nowhere to be found (like a lot lately), so Microsoft's idea of catching up was to get a foot in the door of the movie industry. The movie industry wants to sell high quality movies digitally and so does Microsoft. However, the movie industry wants their media files to be protected against piracy, so Microsoft agreed to implement DRM deep in their OS. Windows Vista is DRM ready for DRMed graphic cards, DRMed sound cards, and DRMed disc drives because without those, the movie industry weren't willing to publish their content on HD-DVD and BlueRay discs.

So now we're at the center of the problem:


For those who believe that Information should be free, any sort of DRM is offending.
The development of DRM mechanisms results in higher costs for a product nobody wants.
DRM slows down your computer and causes higher installation and maintenance costs (can you say "hardware upgrade"?).
Since Linux and Mac computers run a lot of the same hardware like Windows boxes, the former two kinds may have to buy DRMed hardware in the future, too, and pay for it. Can you tell me the benefit of DRMed hardware in a Linux box? Unfortunately, this might not be the innocent "I just run Windows for myself and don't hurt anybody with it" anymore.
DRM is a dead end because DRMed content can not be transfered to other systems unless the author lets you to. Who's telling you you're still running the same computer/TV set 20 years in the future? Right. Who will make sure that you still will be able to play the content you purchased today on your system in the future. We still have to find out.
Last but not least there are signs of a trend in the market in the other direction. People think loudly about selling non-DRMed content; Apple's iTunes Plus is a step into this direction and it's soaring. If the market moves into the non-DRM segment, buyers of DRMed systems have thrown their money out the window.


For further information, refer to A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html).

As I said earlier, this one is not about hating you. However, I have explained why your attitude doesn't exactly trigger intense emotions of joy.

[nikodell]

I do not think Apple is all that innocent either as they attempt to lock market share also. Ever try to play your Itunes on linux without having to do things that might be considered to not be legal in some circles or how about playing your DVDs. oo right you can just play them on your windows or OSX box.I scraped the Ipod and no longer buy DVDs or Music cds in protest to DRM and think most people should boycott industry that infringe on your rights.
I use windows too but just for gaming + Autocad no Linux alt. bummer in my book. Apple put a step in the right direction with no DRM tunes. I do purchase indie labels when I find things i like. Hmm Google new band finder for independents?? Id search, I think that Napster was heading for to this before the splat.

[LiD]

Haha, I can't say haven't had similar experiences.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

I won't keep resurrecting this argument again and again. I promise, I'm not a troll (am more of a very-occasional-lurker here lately), I just wanted to hear some more opinions on this. Just some stuff for me (maybe you, who knows) to think about.

[Parcival]

I do not think Apple is all that innocent either as they attempt to lock market share also.

That's right, Apple isn't innocent either, as they are also selling DRMed content. On the other hand, they use open standards and give back to the community when they continue development in OSS. Microsoft, on the other hand, tries to push through its very own standard of everything. In this context, Apple hardware and software is at least some compromise between open and closed.

Finally, Apple is the perfect example to demonstrate the power of the customer. There are large groups of Apple users in Europe who boycott DRMed songs in the iTunes Music Store while iTunes Plus is soaring. Apple TV (http://www.apple.com/appletv/) is a dead fish in Europe because it doesn't let you record TV shows on your own. The Apple manager who believed customers would buy an extra piece of pricey equipment just to watch DRMed content obviously was wrong.

BTW, my itunes library plays nicely on XMMS in Linux as I kept it free of DRMed songs.

[cylent77]

the simple fact is that people are naturally afraid of something new.
Of course VISTA gets loads of new "toys" and "locks" on the user supposed to make life easier but it does the very opposite.

So when someone gets to know vista a bit they respond with "ya, its ok but i wish it was more like xxx or xxx"

Same with Linux. I KNOW linux. YOU know linux. Most the people on thes e forums KNOW linux but the average PC user has no darn clue what linux is.

This is where microsoft gains a step with their Marketing Bullcrap.

I agree with Vista = Very interesting similarities to apple

I used to have a Mac ibook and really enjoyed using OS X. its just a smart OS in that i mean the design is smart and thats fine cause we can all sorta "copy" the design features.

This is where Linux shines and sorta acts like the copycat kid on the block.

Did we forget that linux itself is a fork cause linus needed an OS to work with at home? (Check your facts).

a simple scenario:
Just the other day my internet was out and we had a power outage so my windows partition got fried. I started hunting my linux distro collection trying to decide what (a) will work easily with my atheros wifi card - and (b) has good package management system. So i figured i'd try PCLinuxOS 2007 since it has RPM(apt) and i sorta like it. I must have booted about 7 times again and again with either "the source cd cannot be found" or X just wont start and it keeps throwing me on the CLI instead of loading X. a bug surely and i just need to research it but if i didnt have the knowledge and know-how i couldnt have done so.

Never-ending is the name of the game and we can all just sit here and argue on and on and on but whats the use? Linux is great. lets keep using it. Vista/Windows is good for people that dont know better and need to be spoon fed.

just my .02 cents.

[acid45]

I saw vista. It was pretty. It was on a top of the line Dell laptop. It was slower than windows XP on my aunts 128MB ram laptop.

[robagen]

About the Vista "look"...yep, even the downloadable distros or
ones from Linux mags (like a recent ed. of PC linux)feature a
Vista translucent look, for a LOT less than a Vista upgrade. They're
a great way to innoculate yourself against a Vista Eye-Candy Need!!;) ;)
:D

[robagen]

Augh. Darn it. I meant that a recent issue of Linux FORMAT featured
such a Vista-styled distro.

[je_fro]

Augh. Darn it. I meant that a recent issue of Linux FORMAT featured
such a Vista-styled distro.
Perhaps you meant that Vista was styled after other distros?
Compiz and transparent terminals were around long before Fista....

[Satanic Atheist]

Gotta join in this one!

Originally posted by Ludootje:
While I can imagine the other points you mentioned, this simply isn't possible. I'm not advocating Vista or anything, but you must've done something wrong there. That's simply not possible, IMHO. Have you tried starting Midnight Commander as root these days without having working DNS? I really don't know what it is, but I'm not the only person having the problem that as a user it will work fine, but as root it takes bloody ages. Start Bind9 and it starts up instantly.

Anyway, the media (http://www.theregister.co.uk) are not referring to Vista as "The Longest Suicide Note In History" for no reason whatsoever. I believe that Microsoft are now on a downward spiral because of the DRM that they've been forced to inject into Vista. I, for one, will certainly not touch it with a barge pole (I'm happy with Linux, thank you), but I find it suspicious that it's only just out and they're already trying to bin XP.

Microsoft never managed to get XP working properly - the huge number of patches and viruses still available are testament to that - but they are trying to force users into DRM that we simply do not want.

Personally, I think that Ubuntu or Kubuntu might be the next successor to the Microsoft throne, but that is simply based on the amount of work that the developers have put into it to try and make it a home-user efficient environment. The reports are generally very good. I must admit that I have never tried it personally.

Anyway, my 2 pennies worth added: I think the year of "Linux on the desktop" is getting nearer...

At least I hope so.

James

EDIT: Missed 2 pages of posts - if Linux ever has to fall under the auspices of DRM technology (like the newer motherboards coming out now) I will stop using computers.

[acid45]

I was in a chat with someone using Ubuntu the other day, and I mentioned Linux getting a much larger market share that it currently has over the next few years, and they said "No way! Not in a million years." They dual boot Windows. ;) Then he started on a rant about elitest Linux users, so I left the chat right quick. I wasn't in a mood to even read anything he had to say.

I'm just glad I found that I'm not the only one that thinks so after having seen Vista. I didn't, think it was because of the DRM though, I thought it was because of the everchanging way of things. When XP came out, it took a long time for people to get used to the things moving around, like msconfig instead of a tab in the System Infomation dialogue. But DRM sucks too :P

P.S.
I think that corporations will like Vista due to DRM. Keeping employees from downloading illegal, virus infested, copyrighted, material and playing it...for a little while anyway.

P.S.S.
...I need to install Firefox 2. I need my form as-you-type spell checker ;)

P.S.S.S.
I asked the friedn who had Vista installed and he had upgraded a pre-Vista machine that was capable of running it. He went back to XP due to speed issues. He hates Vista.

[bwkaz]

Regarding DRM:

http://xkcd.com/129/

:p

[Satanic Atheist]

Originally posted by bwkaz:
Regarding DRM:

http://xkcd.com/129/ Where the HELL do you surf man???

James

[fruitbat!]

I worked with a for while in a shop (fixing pc's with windoze) and now I have no intention of going anyway near Vista its bollocks - give me linux any day - Harddened linux fan

Fruitbat

[bwkaz]

Where the HELL do you surf man??? Not quite sure if this is what you meant, but I found xkcd via UserFriendly several months ago, and found that particular comic in its archives when I read through them. :)

[je_fro]

I laughed so hard at this one my eyes were bloodshot the rest of the night:
http://xkcd.com/272/

[Satanic Atheist]

I've just had my first glimpse of Vista and it's bollocks.

A friend of mine had an XP laptop that died. The HD was fine, it was just the power unit (charger, connector or battery) that died.

So, instead of getting it fixed, he bought a new machine. With Vista.

His wife was kind enough to baby-sit my 3-month-old (little bugger that he is), so I did him the favour of pulling out his laptop hard drive and connecting it to my portable IDE-to-USB adapter and reading off the data.

Even though he's a member of the Administrator group, when he attempted to read his files off his old hard drive, it came up with "Permission Denied"!!! I couldn't believe it! I had to actually right click on his old "Documents and Settings" folder and select properties > security and manually take ownership of it so it could be read!

What the hell is the point in that? Think about it - if I wanted to steal data off of a hard drive, I would remove the drive and read it on another machine that I have Administrator access to (or use Linux) anyway. Everyone knows that if you have physical access to a machine, nothing short of high-grade cryptography on the disc will prevent abuse to the system.

I will NEVER use Vista on any of my machines. I'm sure that this is the one version of Windoze that will be the beginning of the end for MS. Already, Ubuntu is rising up - the whole of the French Parliament are using it, for example.

XP was at least half-decent, and I question Microsoft's motive for not supporting it from just next year - forcing everyone to upgrade (and pay for it) when technically, there's nothing wrong with it (alright, I know it's buggy and has holes you can drive a truck through, but it functioned, didn't it?)

James

[robagen]

To answer Moderator Je_fro:No, I was just identifying the exact name of the magazine I got the burnable distro image from.
"Fista"..lol!..