which version of linux and how to partition hard-drive

[linux4ever]

Hello Folks,

First off, I am completely new to Linux. My computer is a P4 and Windows XP is causing me too much pain at the moment and not working or connecting to the internet. Therefore, what I would like to partition my hard-drive and install a version of Linux on my hard-drive along with Windows XP on the other part of my hard-drive. However, I do not know which version of Linux to setup and I don't know how to partition my hard-drive. I would like to use a version of Linux that contains all the things Windows does but w/o the virus issues. Such as a word processor, PDF viewer, file manager, picture viewer etc.

My next dilemma is that my current Windows XP Pro operating system is not booting up. I tried to install a version of DSL linux on the hard-drive, but may have caused more problems. I tried to download a partition software, but I'm not sure if I need to burn the partition software to a portable drive then boot from the portable drive...?

As a test, I attempted to partition my wife's laptop, but the software popped up a msg that said the drive cannot be partitioned.

Does anyone have any suggestions, as to which version of Linux I should consider and how to partition my hard-drive? I have checked the web, but most instructions refer to newly installed hard-drives.

Thanks,
linux4ever :)

[Parcival]

Welcome to the forums. :)

All your questions have been answered repeatedly. If you search this forum and look at the sticky threads, you will find a wealth of information. Therefore, my answer is going to be rather short.

I would like to use a version of Linux that contains all the things Windows does but w/o the virus issues. Such as a word processor, PDF viewer, file manager, picture viewer etc.

No matter what version/distribution of Linux you choose, you will be able to do most things that you can do with Windows. However, you'll never be able to everything and those things you can do won't look/work exactly the same way. In other words, if you expect Linux to be a better Windows, you'll be disappointed, but if you're looking for a great new OS, then you're right here. :)

My next dilemma is that my current Windows XP Pro operating system is not booting up. I tried to install a version of DSL linux on the hard-drive, but may have caused more problems.

Try to install GRUB (a bootloader) to the MBR (master boot record) of your primary harddisk by the help of a liveCD (such as Knoppix, Ubuntu, etc). Once you have GRUB installed try to edit its configuration file to have it boot Windows. There are tons of tutorials out there since this is the number one newbie problem. ;)

I tried to download a partition software, but I'm not sure if I need to burn the partition software to a portable drive then boot from the portable drive...?

No, your Linux live/installationCD should be equipped with everything you need to partition your drive.

Does anyone have any suggestions, as to which version of Linux I should consider and how to partition my hard-drive? I have checked the web, but most instructions refer to newly installed hard-drives.

Ubuntu respectively Kubuntu is what pretty much everyone uses these days because they both combine ease of use, a reasonable usage of system resources, and the general benefits of Linux. When asking what distro what Linux to use, get ready that virtually every distribution will be recommended to you by someone sooner or later. Have a look at the threads in ISO-confused (especially blackbelt_jones advice) and at distrowatch.com to get an idea what may suit you.

[linux4ever]

Welcome to the forums. :)

All your questions have been answered repeatedly. If you search this forum and look at the sticky threads, you will find a wealth of information. Therefore, my answer is going to be rather short.



No matter what version/distribution of Linux you choose, you will be able to do most things that you can do with Windows. However, you'll never be able to everything and those things you can do won't look/work exactly the same way. In other words, if you expect Linux to be a better Windows, you'll be disappointed, but if you're looking for a great new OS, then you're right here. :)



Try to install GRUB (a bootloader) to the MBR (master boot record) of your primary harddisk by the help of a liveCD (such as Knoppix, Ubuntu, etc). Once you have GRUB installed try to edit its configuration file to have it boot Windows. There are tons of tutorials out there since this is the number one newbie problem. ;)



No, your Linux live/installationCD should be equipped with everything you need to partition your drive.



Ubuntu respectively Kubuntu is what pretty much everyone uses these days because they both combine ease of use, a reasonable usage of system resources, and the general benefits of Linux. When asking what distro what Linux to use, get ready that virtually every distribution will be recommended to you by someone sooner or later. Have a look at the threads in ISO-confused (especially blackbelt_jones advice) and at distrowatch.com to get an idea what may suit you.

Hi Parcival,

Since, my windows os is not working, I am trying to install a version of linux onto the system. I have a CD burned with DSL(damn small linux) and boot up from the CD. I read that I should fix/add the entry for windows, but when I open the file menu.lst, I cannot update the file. I am completely new to linux, but shouldn't I be able to modify the file? Will this help me boot up in Windows?

Ultimately, I am trying to either partition my current hard-drive, so that I can install XP Pro and a version of Linux(either Ubuntu/Fedora/or another version) on one of the two partitions...if my hard-drive is large enough.

Do I need to completely reformat the hard-drive?

I do not have a XP cd. It came pre-loaded with XP home, and I upgraded it to XP Pro.

Thanks in adv,
linux4ever

[IsaacKuo]

Your Windows partition should be in NTFS format; Microsoft has kept the details of NTFS's format secret. It has been largely reverse engineered, but it's not perfect so most versions of Linux play it safe by treating NTFS as read-only.

The idea is that while someone familiar with linux will be aware of the risks of using NTFS with linux, a newbie won't--so the default behavior is to not modify any NTFS partitions and play it safe. Many smaller versions of linux don't even include any method for modifying NTFS partitions (I'm betting DamnSmall is one of them).

Your options using pure Linux are somewhat limited. If you can put this drive into another Windows machine, or if you can get access to a Windows based utility CD, then you will be able to safely resize your NTFS partition(s). Otherwise, you run a risk resizing your NTFS partition using Linux.

Since your Windows XP system isn't working right anyway, your best option may be to simply give up on the current NTFS partition and wipe the drive clean. Then, install Windows XP and be careful with the installation. There should be a partitioning step in the XP installer. You'll want to make the first partition maybe 10gigs in size for Windows XP, and then make the rest of the drive a second partition; a large data partition.

After installing XP, then install Linux. I wouldn't recommend DamnSmall, because it has some confusing options meant to run from inside a Windows partition. You can try Knoppix or SimplyMepis, if you want to stick with a LiveCD, or Debian or Ubuntu if you want a "traditional" linux distribution.

Either way, you'll want to modify the existing partitions. At this point, you've done the XP install so that there are two partitions--an OS partition and an empty NTFS data partition. You'll modify the partitions by deleting that data partition, and use the freed up space for Linux partitions. I recommend something like this:

1) 10gig Windows XP NTFS partition (leave alone)
2) large FAT partition for data (can be fully accessed by both Windows and Linux)
3) 6gig ext3 partition for Linux
4) 1gig swap partition for Linux

NTFS, FAT, ext3, and swap are all different types of file system.

[linux4ever]

Your Windows partition should be in NTFS format; Microsoft has kept the details of NTFS's format secret. It has been largely reverse engineered, but it's not perfect so most versions of Linux play it safe by treating NTFS as read-only.

The idea is that while someone familiar with linux will be aware of the risks of using NTFS with linux, a newbie won't--so the default behavior is to not modify any NTFS partitions and play it safe. Many smaller versions of linux don't even include any method for modifying NTFS partitions (I'm betting DamnSmall is one of them).

Your options using pure Linux are somewhat limited. If you can put this drive into another Windows machine, or if you can get access to a Windows based utility CD, then you will be able to safely resize your NTFS partition(s). Otherwise, you run a risk resizing your NTFS partition using Linux.

Since your Windows XP system isn't working right anyway, your best option may be to simply give up on the current NTFS partition and wipe the drive clean. Then, install Windows XP and be careful with the installation. There should be a partitioning step in the XP installer. You'll want to make the first partition maybe 10gigs in size for Windows XP, and then make the rest of the drive a second partition; a large data partition.

After installing XP, then install Linux. I wouldn't recommend DamnSmall, because it has some confusing options meant to run from inside a Windows partition. You can try Knoppix or SimplyMepis, if you want to stick with a LiveCD, or Debian or Ubuntu if you want a "traditional" linux distribution.

Either way, you'll want to modify the existing partitions. At this point, you've done the XP install so that there are two partitions--an OS partition and an empty NTFS data partition. You'll modify the partitions by deleting that data partition, and use the freed up space for Linux partitions. I recommend something like this:

1) 10gig Windows XP NTFS partition (leave alone)
2) large FAT partition for data (can be fully accessed by both Windows and Linux)
3) 6gig ext3 partition for Linux
4) 1gig swap partition for Linux

NTFS, FAT, ext3, and swap are all different types of file system.

Thanks for the advice, I'll have to read through and see I understand everything. I don't have a XP cd to attempt to reinstall windows. When I attempted to install DSL to the hard-drive I messed something up, since XP will no longer boot up. Is there anyway to fix the bootup of XP?

Actually, for some reason, before I attempted to install linux, windows XP stopped connecting to the internet. I suppose I should try to figure out why that problem is occurring first.

What if I don't want to install windows on this hard-drive, if I can't get my hands on a Win XP cd? Is it possible to wipe-clean(is that the same as reformatting the hard-drive?) and then install a version of linux?

Thanks again,
linux4ever :)

[Parcival]

I don't have a XP cd to attempt to reinstall windows. When I attempted to install DSL to the hard-drive I messed something up, since XP will no longer boot up. Is there anyway to fix the bootup of XP?

You have two options:

(1) Install GRUB and put the correct entry into grub.conf or menu.lst respectively as je_fro suggested. If you are unable to write the changes to the file, make sure you have root priviledges since only root (i.e. the system administrator) is allowed such an operation.

(2) Get a Windows CD, boot it, and instead of installing the OS go for the repair console. There you have a command that lets you fix the MBR so the computer directly boots into Windows. Tons of information is available if you search the forum and the web for a bit.

What if I don't want to install windows on this hard-drive, if I can't get my hands on a Win XP cd? Is it possible to wipe-clean(is that the same as reformatting the hard-drive?) and then install a version of linux?

Yes, just let the Linux installer use the entire disk. It will automatically generate the necessary partitions and format them respecitively (I recommend either reiserfs or ext3).

[saikee]

I advise to keep the XP partition. There is no need to wipe it and if it is healthy it can be booted again by any Linux boot loader.

The key steps I see is

(1) Download the latest "gparted" or "Parted Magic" iso and burn it into a bootable CD. Although Gparted is available in many distros it is safer to use the latest as significant/reliable changes to handling ntfs partitions have taken place recently.

(2) Use the above standalone partition tool to "resize" the xp partition to provide space for

(a) one 5Gb partition for Linux. If you can afford it use 10Gb.
(b) one 1Gb partition for Swap. If you are push with space 0.25 or 0.5Gb swap can be used. The 1Gb is just for easy identification and should be adequate in all cases.

(3) Use the same software to create the two partition which should have type number 83 and 82 respectively. Gparted offers to format the partitions too use Ext3 filing system for the larger partition. There is no filing system for the Swap.

(4) Select any Linux and tell the installer to install the Linux in the large designated partition.

(5) get Linux up and running and we can advise how to boot the XP afterward.

As a Starter I would probably go for Slax which can offer the user to log in as root and avoid a lot of security hurdles a newbie can do without at the beginning. It is also small enough when fully expanded to fit into a 2Gb partition when space is at the premium.

One of the great strengths of Linux is it can co-exist with any other operating system and can boot any of them. Therefore you are not taking advantage of Linux if you destroy a working operating system just to install Linux.

Linux has two modern boot loaders. Grub is easier to work with but Lilo is equally easy to multi-boot with up to 27 images.

[linux4ever]

You have two options:
(1) Install GRUB and put the correct entry into grub.conf or menu.lst respectively as je_fro suggested. If you are unable to write the changes to the file, make sure you have root priviledges since only root (i.e. the system administrator) is allowed such an operation.


I guess I don't have root privileges. How do I get root privileges? All I have is a cd burned with DSL. :o

[saikee]

In DSL I think you can get root privilege in terminal by typing "su".

However when you boot up a Linux from a Live CD the Grub is in the memory and any alteration to it, if implemented, will not help you to boot xp because the Linux disappears once you reboot.

Parcival's advice is to amend the Grub configuration file with a Linux installed into a hard disk so that the changes are kept as a file inside the hard disk.

[linux4ever]

In DSL I think you can get root privilege in terminal by typing "su".

However when you boot up a Linux from a Live CD the Grub is in the memory and any alteration to it, if implemented, will not help you to boot xp because the Linux disappears once you reboot.

Parcival's advice is to amend the Grub configuration file with a Linux installed into a hard disk so that the changes are kept as a file inside the hard disk.

So then, what I need to do first is to install a version of Linux onto the hard-drive?

Then, make the change to the menu.lst file?

Can I simply download a version of linux and burn it onto a CD?

Do I need to have root privilege to download and open/burn data to a CD?

When I have attempted to download anything within DSL booted from a cd, I could not open the downloaded files.

[saikee]

Linux is commonly available in the form of an iso file with which you can burn it into a bootable CD.

May be the best way for you is to restore Windows's MBR. Task B1 or B2 of the last link in my signature refers. You can then use Windows to download the Linux iso and use Windows to burn the Linux bootable CD.

An iso file is a special file that can only be read if you mount it as a loop back device. However if you boot up a Linux Live CD it would install into the memory a working version of Linux.

DSL is an installable Linux Live CD. It is very small for PC with limited hard disk space. Think it needs no more than 500Mb or perhaps a lot smaller. I have it in a 0.4Gb footprint.

Nowaday you can get a full blown Live CD like Knoppix, Mepis, Ubuntu, Mandriva etc.

You can install as many as Linux you wish. Some greedy Bastxxds like me have over a hundred in the box.

[Parcival]

May be the best way for you is to restore Windows's MBR. Task B1 or B2 of the last link in my signature refers. You can then use Windows to download the Linux iso and use Windows to burn the Linux bootable CD.

I agree. Furthermore, please also make a backup of your important files on an external storage media. :D

By the way, if you're using internet explorer and outlook in Windows, you can also transfer your bookmarks and emails to Linux:

1) Install Firefox and Thunderbird in Windows
2) Start them and let them import your IE and Outlook data
3) Make a backup of your Firefox and Thunderbird profile
4) Import your data into Firefox and Thunderbird once you have Linux installed :)

[linux4ever]

Linux is commonly available in the form of an iso file with which you can burn it into a bootable CD.

May be the best way for you is to restore Windows's MBR. Task B1 or B2 of the last link in my signature refers. You can then use Windows to download the Linux iso and use Windows to burn the Linux bootable CD.

An iso file is a special file that can only be read if you mount it as a loop back device. However if you boot up a Linux Live CD it would install into the memory a working version of Linux.

DSL is an installable Linux Live CD. It is very small for PC with limited hard disk space. Think it needs no more than 500Mb or perhaps a lot smaller. I have it in a 0.4Gb footprint.

Nowaday you can get a full blown Live CD like Knoppix, Mepis, Ubuntu, Mandriva etc.

You can install as many as Linux you wish. Some greedy Bastxxds like me have over a hundred in the box.

After I enter: su

Displayed is

password:

It doesn't allow me to enter anything. What do I enter in for the password? How do I enter in anything?

[IsaacKuo]

You enter the password by typing it in. In this old fashioned Unix style, there is NO VISUAL FEEDBACK to let you know you're typing anything. No asterisks. No sound effects. Nothing. You'll only get a response after you press the enter key. Then, if you typed in the correct password you'll be greeted with a "#" prompt indicating success. Otherwise, it will wait a couple seconds before informing you that the password was wrong.

[linux4ever]

You enter the password by typing it in. In this old fashioned Unix style, there is NO VISUAL FEEDBACK to let you know you're typing anything. No asterisks. No sound effects. Nothing. You'll only get a response after you press the enter key. Then, if you typed in the correct password you'll be greeted with a "#" prompt indicating success. Otherwise, it will wait a couple seconds before informing you that the password was wrong.

I never set a password. Is there a default password? :o

[linux4ever]

You enter the password by typing it in. In this old fashioned Unix style, there is NO VISUAL FEEDBACK to let you know you're typing anything. No asterisks. No sound effects. Nothing. You'll only get a response after you press the enter key. Then, if you typed in the correct password you'll be greeted with a "#" prompt indicating success. Otherwise, it will wait a couple seconds before informing you that the password was wrong.

okay, I've reset the password....now I'll see about modifying the menu.lst file. :o

[linux4ever]

Linux is commonly available in the form of an iso file with which you can burn it into a bootable CD.

May be the best way for you is to restore Windows's MBR. Task B1 or B2 of the last link in my signature refers. You can then use Windows to download the Linux iso and use Windows to burn the Linux bootable CD.

An iso file is a special file that can only be read if you mount it as a loop back device. However if you boot up a Linux Live CD it would install into the memory a working version of Linux.

DSL is an installable Linux Live CD. It is very small for PC with limited hard disk space. Think it needs no more than 500Mb or perhaps a lot smaller. I have it in a 0.4Gb footprint.

Nowaday you can get a full blown Live CD like Knoppix, Mepis, Ubuntu, Mandriva etc.

You can install as many as Linux you wish. Some greedy Bastxxds like me have over a hundred in the box.

Okay, I tried the suggestion in B1, but I am recieving the following error...Unable to open /mbr

Also, I do not have a XP Pro cd.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks,
linux4ever :o

[ladoga]

As you are writing here on forums you probably have a way to download the .iso

1. Get GParted Live CD here:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gparted/gparted-livecd-0.3.4-5.iso?modtime=1174861488&big_mirror=0

2. Get some linux distribution (Ubuntu Feisty with link below):
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-5/feisty-desktop-i386.iso

3. Burn .iso files to CDs.

Open the terminal, su to root and go to directory where you downloaded the .iso files. Burn the images by entering commands cdrecord gparted-livecd-0.3.4-5.iso and cdrecord feisty-desktop-i386.iso
Alternatively you can use a program called "bashburn" on DSL live CD for burning the CDs, if using menus makes it easier to grasp.

4. Boot from gparted live CD and resize the NTFS partition in order to make room for linux.

5. Boot from Ubuntu Feisty installer CD and install it.

When you have Ubuntu installed it's no big deal to get Windows bootable. Let's return to that later if you need to.

[saikee]

linux4ever,

The DOS floppy with Dos's own fdisk program should have no error message. The command
fdisk /mbr
is issued in Dos prompt. You get a Dos Prompt by booting up the floppy. The Dos's fdisk is a totally different animal to Linux's fdisk so don't mix up with them.

If you have no XP installation CD use anyone of the NT systems like Win2k.

MS MBR is universal until Vista. The role of MS MBR then was to boot any of the 4 primary partition marked "active". That is why a Dos floppy can restore XP's MBR.

----------------------------------on the subject of getting root privilege from a Live CD

As a rule typing "su" and pressing return when a password is demanded will let you through in most cases.

A Live CD by default must allow you to play around with the system. There is always an explanation page in the booted up Linux, mostly in /home directory, showing you how to get root privilege.

Most Live CD by default does not have a password set and pressing return "null" pasword will get you accepted as the root user. Better put together distros like the Knoppix family will not ask for the password at all.

To maintain high security the current trend in Linux is to disallow a user log in as root to the GUI although with a bit of hacking you could override it in most cases. A small number of Live CD distros still allow you to log in as root to the GUI and a root password would be supplied and stated when the system is booted up. The Slax family is one of them.

[linux4ever]

thanks ladoga and saikee for the suggestions. I'll give those a try.

cheers,
linux4ever

[linux4ever]

As you are writing here on forums you probably have a way to download the .iso

1. Get GParted Live CD here:
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gparted/gparted-livecd-0.3.4-5.iso?modtime=1174861488&big_mirror=0

2. Get some linux distribution (Ubuntu Feisty with link below):
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/feisty/herd-5/feisty-desktop-i386.iso

3. Burn .iso files to CDs.

Open the terminal, su to root and go to directory where you downloaded the .iso files. Burn the images by entering commands cdrecord gparted-livecd-0.3.4-5.iso and cdrecord feisty-desktop-i386.iso
Alternatively you can use a program called "bashburn" on DSL live CD for burning the CDs, if using menus makes it easier to grasp.

4. Boot from gparted live CD and resize the NTFS partition in order to make room for linux.

5. Boot from Ubuntu Feisty installer CD and install it.

When you have Ubuntu installed it's no big deal to get Windows bootable. Let's return to that later if you need to.

Hi Guyz,

I tried entering the commands to burn the cd's, but no luck. Is there anything else after cdrecord gparted-livecd-0.3.4-5.iso...that I need to enter?

linux4ever

[Parcival]

Is there anything else after cdrecord gparted-livecd-0.3.4-5.iso...that I need to enter?

No, not really. What does the error message say?

[ladoga]

You have a blank disk in your cd drive, right? DSL can run entirely from RAM (look at boot options at start) if you need to free the cd drive. If you have several cd drives/writers you need to define the right one.

probably something like:
cdrecord dev=/dev/cdrw whatever.iso

if that didnt work you need to define it better. in linux pata drives are presented as hda, hdb, hdc, hdd and so on and in filesystem they are located under the /dev directory. You can get clue of which drive is which by running dmesg | grep hd.

On my desktop system it will return something along the lines...
Kernel command line: root=/dev/hda1 ro
ide0: BM-DMA at 0xb800-0xb807, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xb808-0xb80f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio
hda: SAMSUNG SP0411N, ATA DISK drive
hdb: HDS724040KLAT80, ATA DISK drive
hdc: HL-DT-ST GCE-8526B, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive
hda: max request size: 512KiB
hda: 78242976 sectors (40060 MB) w/2048KiB Cache, CHS=16383/255/63, UDMA(100)
hda: cache flushes supported
hda: hda1 hda2
hdb: max request size: 512KiB
hdb: 781422768 sectors (400088 MB) w/7919KiB Cache, CHS=48641/255/63, UDMA(100)
hdb: cache flushes supported
hdb: hdb1
hdc: ATAPI 52X CD-ROM CD-R/RW drive, 2048kB Cache, UDMA(33)
Adding 546200k swap on /dev/hda2. Priority:-1 extents:1 across:546200k
EXT3 FS on hda1, internal journal
EXT3 FS on hdb1, internal journal

now I know that my cd-rw drive is /dev/hdc, so i would run
cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc whatever.iso

look at man cdrecord for more.

[linux4ever]

You have a blank disk in your cd drive, right? DSL can run entirely from RAM (look at boot options at start) if you need to free the cd drive. If you have several cd drives/writers you need to define the right one.

probably something like:
cdrecord dev=/dev/cdrw whatever.iso

if that didnt work you need to define it better. in linux pata drives are presented as hda, hdb, hdc, hdd and so on and in filesystem they are located under the /dev directory. You can get clue of which drive is which by running dmesg | grep hd.

On my desktop system it will return something along the lines...

now I know that my cd-rw drive is /dev/hdc, so i would run
cdrecord dev=/dev/hdc whatever.iso

look at man cdrecord for more.

okay, thanks for your suggestions. I am not currently at work and will try when I get home. Is there a screen shot utility in DSL, that I can use? I am having the most difficult time not being able to take a screen shot of the error messages that I see.

cheers,
linux4ever :)

[Parcival]

Is there a screen shot utility in DSL, that I can use? I am having the most difficult time not being able to take a screen shot of the error messages that I see.

Hehe, you're having a Unix like system at your fingertips that can do much more powerful things. ;)

The philosophy behind Unix is about having a lot of small and simple programs, that are good at doing exactly one thing each. If you combine them, you can perform fairly powerful tasks.

One of those powerful tasks is to save error messages directly in a textfile by redirecting the output of your console. Have a look at this article (http://linux.about.com/library/bl/open/newbie/blnewbie3.4.7.htm) on how it's being done. :)

[linux4ever]

Hehe, you're having a Unix like system at your fingertips that can do much more powerful things. ;)

The philosophy behind Unix is about having a lot of small and simple programs, that are good at doing exactly one thing each. If you combine them, you can perform fairly powerful tasks.

One of those powerful tasks is to save error messages directly in a textfile by redirecting the output of your console. Have a look at this article (http://linux.about.com/library/bl/open/newbie/blnewbie3.4.7.htm) on how it's being done. :)

thanks parcival...LOL...yup if nothing this experience will teach me a thing or two about this unix like system. :o