Davy
03-29-2007, 06:46 PM
this makes for encouraging news:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6506027.stm
i wonder if it'll only happen in the eu
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6506027.stm
i wonder if it'll only happen in the eu
Click to See Complete Forum and Search --> : Dell offers Linux pre-installed
chameleon
03-30-2007, 07:22 AM
Yeah, very encouraging.
Konan
03-30-2007, 03:05 PM
I don't consider it to be world shaking news. I have a feeling that it is more of a matter of Dell covering possible future bases ("We have been a Linux supplier and supporter for years!") in the case of Linux really taking off among non-technical users.
First off, I don't want a Dell preloaded with Linux (actually, I don't want a Dell at all, but that is for another rant) - I want to put my own Distro on any new machine my way. And I suspect that this is true of most Linux folks.
Second, which distro? I have a sneaky feeling that it will be Suse which would put Dell firmly into the Novell/Redmond traitorship. But even if it is, say Slackware, which is a first class distro, a Debian person wouldn't want it. Or a Fedora user. For one thing, their rack of expensive manuals would be rendered less useful. On the other hand, Dell is probably not going to ask "Which of 137 distros do you want preloaded?" And I can't blame them for that - support would be impossible.
What Dell needs to do is offer a blank machine, which I doubt that MS will allow under any circumstances.
Konan
First off, I don't want a Dell preloaded with Linux (actually, I don't want a Dell at all, but that is for another rant) - I want to put my own Distro on any new machine my way. And I suspect that this is true of most Linux folks.
Second, which distro? I have a sneaky feeling that it will be Suse which would put Dell firmly into the Novell/Redmond traitorship. But even if it is, say Slackware, which is a first class distro, a Debian person wouldn't want it. Or a Fedora user. For one thing, their rack of expensive manuals would be rendered less useful. On the other hand, Dell is probably not going to ask "Which of 137 distros do you want preloaded?" And I can't blame them for that - support would be impossible.
What Dell needs to do is offer a blank machine, which I doubt that MS will allow under any circumstances.
Konan
quip
03-30-2007, 03:36 PM
First off, I don't want a Dell preloaded with Linux (actually, I don't want a Dell at all, but that is for another rant) - I want to put my own Distro on any new machine my way. And I suspect that this is true of most Linux folks.
Konan
What you say may well be true, but you're missing two points:
1. This raises the awareness of the general public, pro-Linux. This is always a good thing.
2. While the distro that comes on the machine may not be your choice, it has supported hardware, which means that putting your distro of choice on the machine will be easier. Again, a good thing.
Konan
What you say may well be true, but you're missing two points:
1. This raises the awareness of the general public, pro-Linux. This is always a good thing.
2. While the distro that comes on the machine may not be your choice, it has supported hardware, which means that putting your distro of choice on the machine will be easier. Again, a good thing.
Davy
03-30-2007, 04:22 PM
What you say may well be true, but you're missing two points:
1. This raises the awareness of the general public, pro-Linux. This is always a good thing.
2. While the distro that comes on the machine may not be your choice, it has supported hardware, which means that putting your distro of choice on the machine will be easier. Again, a good thing.
and don't forget :D
3. With Dell's name now behind any kind of linux distro, you'll get software makers (both games and apps) to realize that this is a viable market now; and they can start making some of thier stuff linux native.
1. This raises the awareness of the general public, pro-Linux. This is always a good thing.
2. While the distro that comes on the machine may not be your choice, it has supported hardware, which means that putting your distro of choice on the machine will be easier. Again, a good thing.
and don't forget :D
3. With Dell's name now behind any kind of linux distro, you'll get software makers (both games and apps) to realize that this is a viable market now; and they can start making some of thier stuff linux native.
klackenfus
04-01-2007, 02:32 PM
I have a sneaky feeling that it will be Suse which would put Dell firmly into the Novell/Redmond traitorship.
Once again, let me say that I hardly think Novell was a traitor with this deal. If anything, I think it's Microsoft surrendering. They couldn't kill Linux, so they are reselling it. Also, be honest. Suse is a pretty darn good distro.
Once again, let me say that I hardly think Novell was a traitor with this deal. If anything, I think it's Microsoft surrendering. They couldn't kill Linux, so they are reselling it. Also, be honest. Suse is a pretty darn good distro.
ladoga
04-08-2007, 01:10 PM
and don't forget :D
3. With Dell's name now behind any kind of linux distro, you'll get software makers (both games and apps) to realize that this is a viable market now; and they can start making some of thier stuff linux native.
I think much more important is how Dell's decision affects the hardware makers who are suoolying Dell with computer components.
For example, what if Dell requests better linux support from ATI? ATI simply can't ignore them or it will lose lot of it's market share. Same goes for wireless chipset makers and so on. With deal like this I see linux compatibility something that hardware vendors have to target if they want to stay in the business.
I don't care which flavor of linux they supply their computers with, but having 100% linux compatible hardware and not to be forced to pay MS tax would be very good news.
3. With Dell's name now behind any kind of linux distro, you'll get software makers (both games and apps) to realize that this is a viable market now; and they can start making some of thier stuff linux native.
I think much more important is how Dell's decision affects the hardware makers who are suoolying Dell with computer components.
For example, what if Dell requests better linux support from ATI? ATI simply can't ignore them or it will lose lot of it's market share. Same goes for wireless chipset makers and so on. With deal like this I see linux compatibility something that hardware vendors have to target if they want to stay in the business.
I don't care which flavor of linux they supply their computers with, but having 100% linux compatible hardware and not to be forced to pay MS tax would be very good news.
happybunny
04-08-2007, 04:53 PM
The only benifit this has is for driver support.
I have never, ever, never ever, used a factory installed image, no matter the OS.
I've always re-installed it my own way with my own tools, so the fact that Dell does this for me doesn't really matter.
Except for them suppling drivers for their hardware, or only using hardware that isn't some one-off piece of crap.
I have never, ever, never ever, used a factory installed image, no matter the OS.
I've always re-installed it my own way with my own tools, so the fact that Dell does this for me doesn't really matter.
Except for them suppling drivers for their hardware, or only using hardware that isn't some one-off piece of crap.
Syngin
04-10-2007, 11:22 AM
First off, I don't want a Dell preloaded with Linux (actually, I don't want a Dell at all, but that is for another rant) - I want to put my own Distro on any new machine my way. And I suspect that this is true of most Linux folks.
True but I think its safe to say that this will greatly encourage companies to develop and release Linux drivers for their newer hardware which should aid in hardware compatibility across all distros.
Update: Oops, didn't realize happybunny beat me to this comment.
Mental note: Read a thread in full before responding.
True but I think its safe to say that this will greatly encourage companies to develop and release Linux drivers for their newer hardware which should aid in hardware compatibility across all distros.
Update: Oops, didn't realize happybunny beat me to this comment.
Mental note: Read a thread in full before responding.
automatic
04-17-2007, 12:14 AM
In my country, more and more vendors offer pre-installed Linux machine everyday (lenovo/ibm, toshiba, acer, nec, etc.). Very good impact for Linux spreading.
The reason is to beat low price laptop and desktop from china (and local brands), but (in reality) some re-seller offer end users/buyers to install their laptop/desktop with pirated software (for free) :D
The reason is to beat low price laptop and desktop from china (and local brands), but (in reality) some re-seller offer end users/buyers to install their laptop/desktop with pirated software (for free) :D
happybunny
04-17-2007, 12:20 AM
the real test will be to compare a Dell model XYZ with windows and that same model with linux and see if there is a price difference.
My guess is they will monkey with model numbers so that they do not offer the same models with Windows, linux or nothing, just so they can charge the same price no matter what OS choice you pick.
My guess is they will monkey with model numbers so that they do not offer the same models with Windows, linux or nothing, just so they can charge the same price no matter what OS choice you pick.
bwkaz
04-17-2007, 06:26 PM
... just so they can charge the same price no matter what OS choice you pick. Or so they can still get the same huge discounts on volume Windows licenses. ;)
(Actually I'm not sure whether Microsoft still pulls the little stunt where the only way an OEM can get cheap volume licensing (i.e. way less than $100 per copy; probably $30-60) is if (1) they don't offer any other OS on their machines, and (2) they don't offer machines with no OS. That was supposed to stop when the justice department got them found guilty of being a monopoly, but the real punishment there was nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Sigh.)
Anyway, if that little stunt is still being performed, then depending on the contract Dell has with Microsoft, it may be that the only way they can get the cheap licenses is if any given model is only Windows or only Linux/no-OS.
But even if they give the buyer back the full price of the license of Windows, it's going to be less than $100; probably quite a bit less. Those OEM license bundles are cheap per copy. Which makes sense if you're Microsoft -- every penny of those licenses is profit, since the OEMs already have their own media (or they bought it from you, once; same difference). So if you sell the licenses at $30 per, you'll still make an insane amount of money.
(Actually I'm not sure whether Microsoft still pulls the little stunt where the only way an OEM can get cheap volume licensing (i.e. way less than $100 per copy; probably $30-60) is if (1) they don't offer any other OS on their machines, and (2) they don't offer machines with no OS. That was supposed to stop when the justice department got them found guilty of being a monopoly, but the real punishment there was nothing more than a slap on the wrist. Sigh.)
Anyway, if that little stunt is still being performed, then depending on the contract Dell has with Microsoft, it may be that the only way they can get the cheap licenses is if any given model is only Windows or only Linux/no-OS.
But even if they give the buyer back the full price of the license of Windows, it's going to be less than $100; probably quite a bit less. Those OEM license bundles are cheap per copy. Which makes sense if you're Microsoft -- every penny of those licenses is profit, since the OEMs already have their own media (or they bought it from you, once; same difference). So if you sell the licenses at $30 per, you'll still make an insane amount of money.
MMYoung
04-17-2007, 08:33 PM
Once again, let me say that I hardly think Novell was a traitor with this deal. If anything, I think it's Microsoft surrendering. They couldn't kill Linux, so they are reselling it. Also, be honest. Suse is a pretty darn good distro.
Thank you, and you are correct about SUSE. I'm using openSUSE 10.2 and am really impressed with it.
Just my thoughts,
MMYoung
Thank you, and you are correct about SUSE. I'm using openSUSE 10.2 and am really impressed with it.
Just my thoughts,
MMYoung
knute
04-18-2007, 02:04 PM
I used to work for Gateway a while back.
They would put linux on machines for certain corporate customers that had huge orders. They wouldn't do it for Joe Schmoe that walks in off the street and says "Gimme one."
I wonder if Dell has a similar policy.
They would put linux on machines for certain corporate customers that had huge orders. They wouldn't do it for Joe Schmoe that walks in off the street and says "Gimme one."
I wonder if Dell has a similar policy.
Konan
04-19-2007, 10:49 AM
Once again, let me say that I hardly think Novell was a traitor with this deal. If anything, I think it's Microsoft surrendering. They couldn't kill Linux, so they are reselling it. Also, be honest. Suse is a pretty darn good distro.
Ok, using the word traitor was too strong, but I have to disagree strongly about your Microsoft statement. MS is run by very successful techies who manage it like it was a very large lemonade stand. The company, the country and the world can go to hell before they will willingly let anyone sell koolaid on their street.
Novell is a company that has NEVER had any success at anything whenever they stepped outside of their main stream, i.e. Netware. Wordperfect is a, well, perfect example. But I was a CNE for years and their net OS, while a long way from perfect, was light years away from the crap coming out of Redmond. I realise that the management has totally changed, but some companies just never seem to be able to break out of the original mold.
Apple is another example. For years they would stumble around but always manage to fall into a cesspool. But in Apples case, they would find that someone had stashed a bag of gold at the bottom of the pool. Novell just falls in and smells.
Novell is looking to survive (who isn't?) and after attempting a couple of migrations from Netware 6 to Netware on Suse I don't think they are going to. Suse was a good distro before it was acquired, but given Novells track record, I have doubts. I still hope they are successful but cozing up to MS is not the way.
Barnum of Circus fame was once asked, "How do you manage to make a lion and a sheep live together in the same cage?" His answer, "Have lots of sheep."
Konan
Ok, using the word traitor was too strong, but I have to disagree strongly about your Microsoft statement. MS is run by very successful techies who manage it like it was a very large lemonade stand. The company, the country and the world can go to hell before they will willingly let anyone sell koolaid on their street.
Novell is a company that has NEVER had any success at anything whenever they stepped outside of their main stream, i.e. Netware. Wordperfect is a, well, perfect example. But I was a CNE for years and their net OS, while a long way from perfect, was light years away from the crap coming out of Redmond. I realise that the management has totally changed, but some companies just never seem to be able to break out of the original mold.
Apple is another example. For years they would stumble around but always manage to fall into a cesspool. But in Apples case, they would find that someone had stashed a bag of gold at the bottom of the pool. Novell just falls in and smells.
Novell is looking to survive (who isn't?) and after attempting a couple of migrations from Netware 6 to Netware on Suse I don't think they are going to. Suse was a good distro before it was acquired, but given Novells track record, I have doubts. I still hope they are successful but cozing up to MS is not the way.
Barnum of Circus fame was once asked, "How do you manage to make a lion and a sheep live together in the same cage?" His answer, "Have lots of sheep."
Konan
enshum
04-19-2007, 12:18 PM
Well surprise surprise it will be Ubuntu Linux on your dell!
ed
ed
klackenfus
04-19-2007, 07:28 PM
MS is run by very successful techies
Substitute marketing people for techies and I might agree with you there. I did contract third level support for Novell back in 1997, right when NT started to take off. I agree Novell missed the mark when they failed to embrace TCP/IP as their default protocol for so long. However, Netware was a great product in its day, it just failed to keep up. Of all the Linux distros that I currently use, Suse is the most polished. Now, think about it like this, why is MS working with Novell? I think it's pretty simple, the message of Linux is starting to hit home. Consequently, their sales and marketing folks are saying if we can't kill it, why don't we make money from it? It's their typical embrace and extend practice and Novell gets a cash injection that they need to further their Linux efforts.
Substitute marketing people for techies and I might agree with you there. I did contract third level support for Novell back in 1997, right when NT started to take off. I agree Novell missed the mark when they failed to embrace TCP/IP as their default protocol for so long. However, Netware was a great product in its day, it just failed to keep up. Of all the Linux distros that I currently use, Suse is the most polished. Now, think about it like this, why is MS working with Novell? I think it's pretty simple, the message of Linux is starting to hit home. Consequently, their sales and marketing folks are saying if we can't kill it, why don't we make money from it? It's their typical embrace and extend practice and Novell gets a cash injection that they need to further their Linux efforts.
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