No ADSL Connection. Advanced ADSL ISP help needed.

[raid517]

Was: Hard Core Networking/ADSL Guru Needed. (No idea what was so wrong with that title as this is probably still what I need).

Hi I am having major trouble with my ISP. Basically they keep moving me on to a non working IP range - until I call them up and complain, when after waiting 40 minutes each time on hold for someone to answer, they temporarily change it back to a working IP. This works for a couple of weeks, until again for some unknown reason my IP will once more revert back to the non working range.

My ISP's technical support department have been in touch with me - and I do think they are trying to fix the issue, but they have been trying for several weeks now and seem no closer to a resolution.

However I am curious as to what might be causing this? The symptoms are that I can ping virtually any server (either numerically, or using a named format like www.google.com) but I cannot browse any web sites, recieve any mail, connect to an instant messaging service, do and FTP, use Telenet or anything else like that. Yet as soon as they change my IP address I can do all of these things again. The weird thing is that their chief engineer there claims he can connect using the non functional IP range and my log on details and browse the web and do all of these other things without difficulty. It is only when I try to connect at my end that the problems emerge.

Are there any guys out there who understand these things that might be able to suggest what's going on? At least then I can tell my ISP and I might be able to get a reliable connection again. I don't know if it is very relevant, since to me it sounds like some kind of routing issue - although it might be - but I am currently connected to a LLU (Local Loop Unbounding) exchange which gives me a current ADSL speed of about 8Mbs.

Any input would be appreciated.

GJ

[Hayl]

my ISP has a similar setup (I think).

when you first get set up and get an IP it is in a non-valid IP range until you register your MAC address via a website taht is accessible in the non-functional range. after that, DHCP gives you a proper address and everything works.

how are you connecting? via a linux box or via a (hardware i.e. linksys/dlin) router?

[raid517]

Well as regards how I connect, currently my ISP's chief engineer has stuck me on a static IP (or so he says) until he figures out the problem with the other IP range. Officially, my ISP doesn't supply static IP's though. (Yeah, I know it sucks). The thing is that this guy keeps emailing me and asking me to run tests for him - so in a sense he is using me to try to figure out what the fault is with their network. To be honest I think it's a bit cheeky, but hey I was bored and I also thought if possibly I could figure it out, maybe I wouldn't have to go through all the (huge amount) of hassle I've had to go through over this last few weeks again. Suffice to say that he still doesn't know what's causing the problem.

I also connect via a USRobotics 9105 4 port (wired) combo router/modem. (Running Linux 2.4.17). There are no ACL, NAT or other rules on this modem preventing access to any particular IP range. The IP range that isn't working starts 87* the IP range that does seem to work (though it seems not all of the addresses work on this either) starts with 95*. I think it was changing because it was really previously in a dynamic range.

The other reason I want to identify this issue, is because if I can, they can't say they never knew about it and if it happens again, I will be able to claim compensation for the lost period of connectivity with them.

GJ

[XiaoKJ]

Well, I can't help you with the problem you have, but I'll help the kind mods here to tell you why your title is not ok.

Hard Core Networking/ADSL Guru Needed.

Notice that it has nothing to describe your problem here? your problem is with your ISP, and you didn't even tell us about your ISP enough to say anything. Imagine all of the people have networking problems, they can use the title similar to yours, and life will be horrible for our poor mods.

No ADSL Connection. Advanced ADSL ISP help needed.

Better --- you state that you have no ADSL Connection. You have ISP and ADSL in it. But it still kinda not fit the bill. Your problem seems to not yet have anything to do with ADSL (from my viewpoint), but still anybody with an ADSL problem can post the same title as yours. Like me. :)

I believe Hayl is also lenient on your case since you have tried to change already. If you have more questions you can try reading the guidelines. you can find them at the bottom of Hayl's post, where all the links are.

Finally, to give you an example of how I'd title your problem:

ISP assigning invalid IP addresses

[raid517]

Thanks for the object lesson. But to be honest I've never really had a problem with any of my threads on this forum ever being locked or deleted or anything like that in all the 3 years I have been a member here before, until you decided you didn't like my title. (To be honest I'm more than a little ticked off by it). I'm not sure if you really are trying to be helpful, but in any case generally I only need to be told things once (and then preferably be given a chance to fix any precieved fault. This seems nothing other than fair). There is certainly however no real benefit to anyone in continuing to labour the point.

This isn't (or at least it doesn't appear to be from my experience) a standard every day networking related issue, hence why I asserted - and continue to assert that I would welcome the input of anyone with advanced knowledge of these matters. In other words I need the advice of a 'Networking and ADSL Guru.' I would much rather that you stick to this specific topic, rather than engage in a feeding frenzy over whether you do, or do not like my particular posting style. This isn't very relevant. My new title for this thread (as I believe was my previous one) is perfectly adequate. If anyone wants to kick up a fuss over one single title that some random member objects to throughout three years then so be it. I just don't think it has very much to do with the subject at hand.

GJ

[soulestream]

are you using public IP address on all the machines on the network or are you translating them to private IPs.

Check what Hayl said.

your router should be able to handle any public IP range.

If you can get their with names its probaly not a DNS problem.

I really cant think of anything else, unless its a problem with your router


soule

[raid517]

my ISP has a similar setup (I think).

when you first get set up and get an IP it is in a non-valid IP range until you register your MAC address via a website that is accessible in the non-functional range. after that, DHCP gives you a proper address and everything works.

how are you connecting? via a linux box or via a (hardware i.e. linksys/dlin) router?

I'm trying not to ignore this, but I'm struggling to understand what's being said.

Are you saying that this requires some kind of action from me? Because my ISP has never asked me to register my Mac code or anything like that before - nor is it normal practice for any UK ISP that I know of to require it.

The problem appears to be at their end. I say this because every time they switch me on to a non functional range - they can change it back to a range at will that I and they now know is guranteed to work. However the broken/non functional range could potentially affect thousands of people (although more specifically it could affect me again - which is what I want to avoid).

I'm connecting as I said using a combo modem router that is running Linux.


GJ

[raid517]

are you using public IP address on all the machines on the network or are you translating them to private IPs.

Check what Hayl said.

your router should be able to handle any public IP range.

If you can get their with names its probaly not a DNS problem.

I really cant think of anything else, unless its a problem with your router


soule

No it's not a DNS problem - I have tried DNS servers from other ISPs that are known to work. It didn't make any difference. I don't know what the first part of what you means. I only have one PC currently connected to my router. Like I said, the problem appears to be with my ISP though.

GJ

[soulestream]

you said you were not using NAT, so what is the IP address of the computer you are using. i.e. is the incoming address to your router 87.23.***.*** and your PC has a translated address of 192.168.100.2

or

are you using IP address range they gave you i.e.
your router address is 87.23.***.**1 and your PC address is 87.23.***.**2


soule

[raid517]

Again no clue (OK call me clueless). All I know is that My ISP has full, complete and total control over which IP addresses I am assigned. They can change this at will as and when they please. My modem/router just picks up whatever IP address they give me automatically. I personally have no control over this at all.

GJ

[XiaoKJ]

soulestream meant to ask if you have NAT on. if you have more than 1 computer on the home network, that is an almost definite yes.

if you only have a modem and a computer, then maybe not. but most modems nowadays have routing components in them.

well, ifconfig will tell you your ip address from your computer's viewpoint right away

[raid517]

eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:11:09:C7:24:91
inet addr:192.168.1.110 Bcast:192.168.1.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::211:9ff:fec7:2491/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:6154520 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:5680749 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:312116439 (297.6 MiB) TX bytes:1493851294 (1.3 GiB)
Interrupt:11

lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0
inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:16436 Metric:1
RX packets:2649 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:2649 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
RX bytes:470051 (459.0 KiB) TX bytes:470051 (459.0 KiB)

vmnet8 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:50:56:C0:00:08
inet addr:172.16.241.1 Bcast:172.16.241.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
inet6 addr: fe80::250:56ff:fec0:8/64 Scope:Link
UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:341 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)

[jumpedintothefire]

I also connect via a USRobotics 9105 4 port (wired) combo router/modem. (Running Linux 2.4.17). There are no ACL, NAT or other rules on this modem preventing access to any particular IP range. The IP range that isn't working starts 87* the IP range that does seem to work (though it seems not all of the addresses work on this either) starts with 95*. I think it was changing because it was really previously in a dynamic range.

Can you post abit more detail about the non-working ipaddresses?
You're using NAT by the way.... Are you sure there are no rules?
Is there a way to configure the router? Or maybe poke around abit?

95* is held in reserve by IANA and should not be used at all.
http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois.ch?ip=95.0.0.0
Well, I'll bet that the "router" is the cause, engress/ingress filtering...
It might have an old list, for use with the filtering. The other thought
is there maybe a packet fragmentation issue, but lets rule out the above first.

[raid517]

Well I can't do much more than refer you back to a long debate I had on this subject on adslguide.co.uk (http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=ukonline&Number=1902588&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0&fpart=).

As for my current IP address it's in the range of 195.172.*

There was probably a lot of nonsense talked on that other thread - but I really had no idea what the problem might be.

And yes there are a great many settings on my router. (It runs Linux - so everything you can do on Linux you can do on this). If you are really interested in figuring this out, take a look at all the stuff this router can do here (http://www.usr-emea.com/support/s-prod-template.asp?loc=unkg&prod=9105).

GJ

[raid517]

Also, I should say, I don't have a lot more info on the non working IP addresses.... My ISP hasn't been very forthcomming in that regard - except that most of them start with 87*. Those that do work, tend to begin 194* or 195*. I think the thing I find most interesting about this though, is that my ISP's chief engineer clearly doesn't have a clue what the fault is either. It would almost be neat to beat him to the mark as it were - and figure out what is really causing the fault. But I do find it interesting that the UK's 3rd largest ISP can't fix simple issues such as this. They have pretty much stripped down their servers and routers to the bone to try to identify the issue - and it's kind of funny that they are recruting customers to try to help them figure out what the problem is. They even have this guy working overtime and nights to try to work out what's going on. Personally I think it's all new technology (well LLU is relatively new) and they are still not 100% familiar with it.

It's definately not an MTU issue - as he gave me a range of different MTU settings to test.

BTW, I'm not the only one to suffer from this fault. I know of a bunch of other people who are having identical issues too.

GJ

[jumpedintothefire]

That was a long read..... At least your fixed up, but your isp has some issues that need to be resolved..... The isp should really can most of the phone staff... That info should of been passed to a network engineer... To have a wide range issues, with this ip space, from a bunch of different clients, kind of deserves abit of attention don't yea think??? Don't answer that....

At the moment, you have no issues at all??

If not, can get to a cli on that box....
Looks kind of like what I build, but way smaller... What to play?
Just need to see if there is a iptable rule that has clampmss in it....
and maybe a 'ifconfig' and a 'route -n' to check the mtu of the interfaces...

[raid517]

No, no problems ATM. Other than that is the apparent fact that the IP addresses I'm currently using are IANA reserved - which is why I guess he appears pretty desperate to get me back on the 87* range of addresses again. (He emails me about twice every day asking me to try different stuff).

Do I want to play? But of course! And yes, I can get to a CLI, no probs. at all.

BTW, I agree, the biggest problem is that the office tech support staff only have a Windows formulated script to work from. (It just covers the usual stuff, like viruses and spyware and so on). The minute you ask them to step outside of this script, they all become totally lost. My ISP also likes to limit complaints, so they don't advise how to go about making complaints very easily. The bottom line is that the office tech support staff tend to get so tied up in their script that they don't know a genuine fault when it smacks them in the face. So they have no conception of when it is and when it is not appropriate to pass problems on to a qualified network engineer. I guess that's just what you call bad training.

GJ

[jumpedintothefire]

As for my current IP address it's in the range of 195.172.*
Don't worry then, I guess the 95* was a typo. that s/b 195, right?
BTW, I'm not the only one to suffer from this fault. I know of a bunch of other people who are having identical issues too.
Sounds like your isp may have some hardware/"how do we work this thing" issues.
I'll lay cash down on "it's a routing issue" (read mis-configured) at the isp router/hardware level. Good luck(you'll need it), if you want to help them(you want to be the hero, right?), if you get a 87 address again, ping the default gateway and see if your dropping packets. That is the first hop out to the internet, after that hop, traceroutes would list each of the hops to your target. Then ping each hop to help uncover funky routing/bad routers. Hope this helps.

[raid517]

No I don't want to quite be the hero - but I don't necessaily mind if this engineer guy ends up feeling dumb and incompetant - since this is pretty much the way this company made me feel for 8 days during my outage. It was 'my fault, my hardware, I was a dumb user and was doing something wrong' and so on. Indeed they did anything they could other than admit that there might be a problem at their end.

They still haven't even as much as appologised.

GJ

[raid517]

There's a small hole in that logic - since quite a few other users are reporting the same issue too. (See above).

And my router has been set, reset, flashed with the latest up to to date firmware and has been crawled over in minute detail by my ISP's chief engineer. Besides which it worked before I was on the 87* ip range and works now after I have been moved to the 194/195* IP range.

So unless everyone elses routers are broken too, I doubt that the issue is just down to me.

GJ

[jumpedintothefire]

hole in the logic???? see above "at the isp router/hardware level"
.87 is the problem network right, then some of the isp's equipment is FUBR on 87*.
<rant>
What makes you think the "ISP's chief engineer" knows what is happening with a linux box, he/she can't get their own equipment right.
</rant>
Where were you doing the MTU stuff? on your router? your local machine?

[raid517]

Sorry it was very early when I read your post. I hadn't quite woken up yet. And he did seem to know about Unix as I mentioned that I could use either Linux, or Windows (or even OS X) to test. After trying some bog standard stuff in Windows he asked me to switch to linux so I could try some CLI stuff for him.

The MTU stuff was done on my USR 1905 combo router/adsl modem.

GJ