Need a suggestion for a motherboard

[blackbelt_jones]

I got my custom-built (by my brother) computer about nine months ago,and while it's awesome when it works, it just doesn't want to work all the time. Components have been burning out (two expensive CD ROM drives, 1 expensive video card, and the power source) There have been overheating problems, and now it doesn't do anything. No boots, no fans, no video dispolay.

The guy at the shop says that he's thoroughly tested everything, and it definitely needs a new motherboard. The original motherboard was a Soyo Dragon 2. Since it was connected to everything else that has gone wrong, I'm hoping that I've finally gotten to the real source of the all the problems. The guy at the shop said he went online and found all kinds of complaints about the Dragon series, and strongly suggested I get something else.

But I have no idea what sort of motherboard I ought to be getting. I have a 3.0 Ghz Pentium 4 processor, and an nv geforce video card. Any suggestions or guidelines? I feel like I'm totally at sea. :confused: The guy at the shop suggested msi or asus, but he freely admitted he doesn't know anything about linux.

[paj12]

Basically, the motherboard should be matched to the components you want to put into your box. I believe that the Pentium 4 uses a Socket 478 connector. Other than that, your choice should be dependent on the rest of your components. A few things to look at:

Type/Speed of Memory - SDRAM or DDR?, how fast?
FSB - If your proc supports 533MHz, don't get 400
Type of Storage Drives - IDE, SATA, or SCSI?
Type of Video Card - AGP or PCI-Express?

Newegg.com (http://www.newegg.com/) is probably the best place to start looking. They a great search feature where you can find any piece of hardware by specifying the criteria you're looking for.

As an aside, what kind of Power Supply does your box have. The motherboard may indeed be the problem, but most of the time, components burning out is a sure sign of a crap PS.

Hope you find what you're looking for. :)

EDIT: Asus and MSI are indeed good brands. Stay the hell away from ECS. I have two of them. They are cheap in both senses of the word! :rolleyes:

[infiniphunk]

Man, when my old mainboard started to crap out (due to a burnt cap) I was UPSET. I ended up getting a new one of the same make with the warranty, but until I got it I just bought a new one brand new, and cheap. MSI socket 478, model is 845E MAX, you know, 533 MHz anyway, I've been happy with it ever since and it was cheap and even has a lifetime warranty. So see if you can get one like it, trust me. Good night all you guys i've gone to the bar tonight with some friends from overseas earlier so needless to say they have so,me really good draft down there so I had a few pints which I haven't done in a long time (much deserved I should add) so there you go.
teake care dude!

[je_fro]

3 words:
Asus
Asus
Asus

[StarTiger]

3 words:
Asus
Asus
Asus

Say that again and much louder! Asus's boards are a bit more expensive than everyone else, but they are SO worth it. Much better quality and speed. The cheak soyo board should be evidance. (Sorry, but I've never had good luck with soyo and lot of bad.) Abit or MSI are also good choices.

A few notes to consider:
1. Make sure you know the form factor of the board. Is is a micro ATX or a full size ATX? (if it only has 2-3 expansion slots on it, It's a micro.) and what type of case do you have? If you only have a micro ATX case, that will limit whatboardws you you can fit in it.

2. Get a good and strong power supply. I'd personally recomend atleast 450Watts.

3. Decide now what kind of video card you want ot be able to use. Because tech is shifting away form the AGP card to the PCI 16x slot. (This has happen within just the last couple months and I got blindsided by it. So next time I want to upgrade my computer, it's conna mean lots of $$ for me.:mad: ) If you want to keep your old cards, that will mean an AGP board, but that's gonna liit you in the long run. A PSI 16x board is gonna mean a new video card and more $$, but probably better in the long run. Then you can use SLi.

4. Consider whether or not you're gonna want a SATA or RAID Controller, or ever gonna what one in the future.

[psych-major]

I've had good luck with both Asus and MSI, and have had them both working with Linux with no issues. Beyond that it comes down to preference about options, as already mentioned.

So let me get this straight, your brother set you up with a Soyo mobo and a pentium processor? Does he dislike you or have you ticked him off in some way? My recommendation is to get a new Asus mobo, and a new AMD proc while you're at it.

[JayMan8081]

I'll throw my two cents in. I would go with a Gigabyte motherboard. They are very full-featured for a decent price. Haven't had any problems with mine and I'm also running a Pentium 4 3 GHz. I would second the suggestion that you look at newegg.com as it is a great site that usually has the best prices on just about any computer related product imaginable.

[psych-major]

I would second the suggestion that you look at newegg.com as it is a great site that usually has the best prices on just about any computer related product imaginable.

And great user reviews. I usually learn more there then from the specs.

[cybertron]

2. Get a good and strong power supply. I'd personally recomend atleast 450Watts.
Wattage really isn't as important as the amps on each rail. For instance, the 350W in my case has 16A on the +12V rail, where as a cheapo 450 might only have 14 or even less. I'm generally skeptical of anything (except gigantic 600W beasts) that claims much over 20 because I think those are generally reporting double what they actually are (or at least whatever it is the other manufacturers use). I'm not really sure what the deal is with that, but I've noticed there are some 350's that claim 30A and there's no way that's true, but 15A would be reasonable.

Besides which, like you said it's way more important to get a good brand-name power supply for the sake of quality and reliability. I had a friend whose power supply fried all of his new components because he went with a POS 450 that came with his case. Granted a 450 may be necessary these days with the power-hungry video cards and such, but I'd take a quality 350 over a cheap 450 any day (and did, in fact:)).

/My 2 cents.:)

[eskaypey]

Asus
Very good motherboards

[jmtjet2]

I'm casting my vote for Gigabyte, I've never gotten a bad one. They're very versatile and inexpensive.

[GmarAppledude]

I have an Abit IC7G and an Asus P4P800 for my P4s (478). They are both extremely good and each have gigbit lan, onboard sound and both work with Linux. The IC7G has 4 Sata ports and 2 IDE ports. The P4P800 has 2 Sata ports and 4 IDE take you pick. I'd recommend either of them. The IC7G has a noisy NB fan so that means the Asus pips it here.

[tweak232]

Asus.

Also, you mentioned a bunch of parts frying. This could also be a PSU failure (although we already determined it was the mobo). If you have a bad psu, it will kill your system, be it slowly or quickly. One of the best ways to pick out a PSU (assuming that you can physically hold it) Is by feeling how much it weighs. Other wise, if you are just looking online, then I suppose you could go by the old saying "you get what you pay for" the more cash you put into it, the safer your components.

It may have been the psu that actually fried your components, and perhaps damaged your motherboard. Seeing that the PSU died, is pretty convincing to me...

[blackbelt_jones]

Asus.

Also, you mentioned a bunch of parts frying. This could also be a PSU failure (although we already determined it was the mobo). If you have a bad psu, it will kill your system, be it slowly or quickly. One of the best ways to pick out a PSU (assuming that you can physically hold it) Is by feeling how much it weighs. Other wise, if you are just looking online, then I suppose you could go by the old saying "you get what you pay for" the more cash you put into it, the safer your components.

It may have been the psu that actually fried your components, and perhaps damaged your motherboard. Seeing that the PSU died, is pretty convincing to me...

Interesting point. Well, regardless, it's the motherboard now. I'm gonna go with Asus, and get whatever the Repairman thinks will work best with the rest of the existing components. I am going to get a new PSU right away as well. Rigtht now I've got a 300 watt, and I think I need to go up a bit to add a second CD ROM drive. Much thanks to one and all!

[XiaoKJ]

Gigabyte and MSI and Intel.

regarding Asus and Abit, these taiwanese companies used to make excellent motherboards. but recently they have been using inferior capacitors and thus many users are buying defective boards. In a very short time the capacitors burst. This is the situation here in Singapore. Sometimes, brands really make a difference in quality.

For PSU's get Antec True Power. It really makes its name with quality too.

I'd recommend Gigabyte/MSI/Intel anyday. Their track record is still as good as ever.

[ladoga]

3 words:
Asus
Asus
Asus
4 words:

MSI
MSI
MSI
MSI ;)

I've had Asus board fail after 1 week use. (it happened about year ago.)
I read other ppl had similar problems. After this switched to buy MSI and i've been very happy with it.

From my limited experience it's hard to say if i was only being unlucky. Asus boards used to be very good and maybe they are still.

[blackbelt_jones]

Okay, here's where I am now...

The repair shop guy suggests an ASUS p4p800 SE. He says the problem with inferior capacitors, cuts accross manufacturers, and for this reason, I have decided that I would prefer to buy my MoBo from a company that will allow me to buy an extended service plan. So I tried Tiger Direct.

Tiger direct doesn't have a P4p800 SE. They do have a P4p800-X and a P4P800 E. Can anybody tell me if I should care about the difference?

[je_fro]

Another few words...
newegg
Antec True Power 550
newegg

[blackbelt_jones]

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=866224&CatId=0

Another few words...
newegg
Antec True Power 550
newegg

That's a PSU? The guy at the store said I'm gonna need at least 550 Watts, so I'll give it a looksee.

[cybertron]

That's a PSU? The guy at the store said I'm gonna need at least 550 Watts, so I'll give it a looksee.
Dang, what have you got in that thing? There are very few hardware configurations that require 550 watts, short of SLI setups. A 550 will certainly cover you though.

I also wholeheartedly recommend NewEgg, although I just got hosed by their RMA department. I recently got a sweet mousepad with built-in LED's, but a couple of them didn't work right, so I sent it back. Long story short, they don't sell it anymore so they're just going to credit my account which means I'm completely out the shipping I paid both directions and I don't have the mousepad anymore. Had I known that was going to happen I would have just kept it and dealt with the disfunctional LEDs. Not really their fault, but I felt the need to vent.:)

[blackbelt_jones]

New egg is cheaper, but I want to buy an extended warranty plan, and that's wny I plan to go with Tiger Direct.

[Piko]

Well Asus, is a safe bet, but some times you'll get a bad one. Epox, *sigh* they USED to make good boards, but not anymore. Gigabyte, I've got 2 that are 6 years old, and still work, they where first gaming computers, then sftp servers, and now my sister, and brother use the two of them, so I like Gigabyte.

Though here's a weird one. DFI, I bought my first one from them, and well, hell it rocks! The BOIS is loaded, the lay out is awesome. nVidia chip set 100% Linux friendly. Stable, cool, no fans on the AGP just a really big heat sink, and I like that better. Fans break down in about 2-5 years.

When I went to the store, my old Gigabyte (5.6 Years) just blew up, puff of smoke, and everything, I was going to get an MSI. Though when I got to the store they were out of the MSI mother boards, but then the guy there showed me the DFI stuff. Didn't look half bad, and I trusted this guy. It was easy to set up, and hasn't given me any problems... YET! We all know how theis things are, once the one year warrenty is gone, KA BOOM!

So 5 picks are...

1.Gigabyte (Long Lasting, Old Rusty, Yarrrrrrr! She's a good board! 9/10 Pirates Agree, and not the software kind!)

2.MSI (Good, never had one go wacky until about 3 years of use, fast, easy to install, good support)

3.DFI (#3 For now, I'll see how this one works out in the comming years)

4.Soyo (Yeah, good stuff, no personal experiance with them though I have friends who love them.)

5.Asus (I've seen 4 blow up in under 1 year of use, but many people say they're good so, maybe my buds, and I just have really bad luck...)



Avoids!

1.SiS (What the hell! I've owned 2 of their mother boards, and they were in pre-built compaqs, both died in under half a year. They're slow, unrelible, drivers for them are impossible to find.)

2.P.I.S.S.D. (THE NAME IS THE HINT!!! I think this company is dead, luckly.)

3.Epox (*Sigh* They had a good run when the K-6es where kings, and then the first Socket "A"s rolled out, but now they can't cut it anymore)

4.Anything I haven't mentioned, or you haven't heard about. (Never buy from a company you've never heard of online, or no little about, safe then sorry)


Also, the only reason my old Gigabyte died was becuase I moved it into a smaller case, and then the power supply in it shorted out, and blew the motherboard, but everything else was fine. If I just left it alone it would be going on 6 years. *sob*

[XiaoKJ]

I think I have to polish up my last post here.

Do not get Asus boards these days. They were good, but they are profiteering from their good brand name these days.

My own Asus worked for so long I don't remember. but stats from the local repair shop says asus is not worthy anymore.

my friend says gigabyte makes good boards throughout the boards' life time, but MSI researches fastest and provides good boards only for the first few months of releasing new features. Or did I get the two mixed up?

[blackbelt_jones]

I think I have to polish up my last post here.

Do not get Asus boards these days. They were good, but they are profiteering from their good brand name these days.

My own Asus worked for so long I don't remember. but stats from the local repair shop says asus is not worthy anymore.

my friend says gigabyte makes good boards throughout the boards' life time, but MSI researches fastest and provides good boards only for the first few months of releasing new features. Or did I get the two mixed up?

Okay well, here's what my local repair guy says:
The aforementioned problem with more recent Asus boards is cheap capacitors, but he thinks that the problem with capacitors actually cuts accross brands, so I might as well go with Asus. THEREFORE I'm going to buy my Asus board from Tiger Direct, where for an extra 35 dollars I can get a three year extended warranty service contract, so at least I'll be covered.

Dang, what have you got in that thing? There are very few hardware configurations that require 550 watts, short of SLI setups. A 550 will certainly cover you though.


Is there such a thing as too many watts? Since the repairman is probably going to install the PSU, my inclination is to follow his reccomendation.

[tweak232]

PSU's do not constantly draw their rated wattage. So overshooting will not cost you too much more on electricity. They only draw as much as the components draw, so if you have a bunch of 15,000 rpm scsi drives, then the power draw would be a lot more than 1 7,200 IDE drive. Also, your components draw the most power on boot up, as everything starts spinning at the same time. All psu's loose rated watts as they get hotter, and gain rated watts as they get cooler. How much their rating fluctuates is based on brand/price. If you don't want to risk surging your psu, then go with antec. They have the smallest fluctuations, and have good air flow, and 2 fans built into them. More air flow= less heat= even less fluctuation. What kind of components do you have in your case? The amperage/volatage is usualy listed there.

Either way, specify that you want an antec psu. Getting a cheap psu for your pc is just like putting a lawn mower carburator in your car. Sure it will work, but it will kill your engine.

[XiaoKJ]

too many watts is just a waste of your money --- its not going to do anything bad.

but cutting across boards? what do you mean?

having cheap capacitors on boards can be a serious thing. What if you are working on your system when suddenly one of them blows? (the usual case) you can have a non-working system afterwards, and not only the motherboard will spoil. The associated power surges can do lots of damage to your system. your loss, esp in time, will not be covered by the warranty

[blackbelt_jones]

too many watts is just a waste of your money --- its not going to do anything bad.

but cutting across boards? what do you mean?

having cheap capacitors on boards can be a serious thing. What if you are working on your system when suddenly one of them blows? (the usual case) you can have a non-working system afterwards, and not only the motherboard will spoil. The associated power surges can do lots of damage to your system. your loss, esp in time, will not be covered by the warranty

Sadly, what he's telling me is that the same problem is turning up in other brands, and I might as well go with Asus. Sucks, doesn't it?

[tweak232]

no credible motherboard maker is going to put cheap components in their product. Or at least they shouldn't. It is at least worth a message to gigabyte where they get thier capasitors from.

Tell me who manufactures their capasitors, and I will prob be able to tell you how credible they are. Panasonic seem to be the industry leaders.

[blackbelt_jones]

PSU's do not constantly draw their rated wattage. So overshooting will not cost you too much more on electricity. They only draw as much as the components draw, so if you have a bunch of 15,000 rpm scsi drives, then the power draw would be a lot more than 1 7,200 IDE drive. Also, your components draw the most power on boot up, as everything starts spinning at the same time. All psu's loose rated watts as they get hotter, and gain rated watts as they get cooler. How much their rating fluctuates is based on brand/price. If you don't want to risk surging your psu, then go with antec. They have the smallest fluctuations, and have good air flow, and 2 fans built into them. More air flow= less heat= even less fluctuation. What kind of components do you have in your case? The amperage/volatage is usualy listed there.

Either way, specify that you want an antec psu. Getting a cheap psu for your pc is just like putting a lawn mower carburator in your car. Sure it will work, but it will kill your engine.

Here's what I'm considering right now:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817182010
NOT an antec, but extremely high-rated by cutomers (a phenomenal 5 out of 5 with 41 votes) and reasonably priced. Anybody want to comment?

[blackbelt_jones]

no credible motherboard maker is going to put cheap components in their product. Or at least they shouldn't. It is at least worth a message to gigabyte where they get thier capasitors from.

Tell me who manufactures their capasitors, and I will prob be able to tell you how credible they are. Panasonic seem to be the industry leaders.

For what it's worth, here are some capacitor manufacturers from a different Asus board:

Capacitor manufacturers on this board are United Chemi-Con (marked KZE, USA and Japan), Taiwon Ostor Corporation (marked RLG, Taiwan), and others marked RLZ from unknown manufacturers.

I'll try to find something more specific.

[tweak232]

wow, 35A @ 12 vdc is a lot of power. You could esaly power a scsi raid 0+1 array with that. I wish I could take a look at the inside, but still, very good psu for the price. Watch how many of those you put on one circut, you may trip a breaker :rolleyes: .

It should only trip a breaker if you have several scsi fileservers on the same circut. 10A is a very high ceiling for a psu. And most circuts have 15 amp breakers. Still like I said earler, all psus are RMS.

[XiaoKJ]

Ahh, the point is that I've only said Asus, not the other brands. I still believe Intel/Gigabyte and MSI will not do that, at least in my view now.

Intel always had that good name, but are charging too much for the little they give.

Gigabyte, from my friend, has the best features/performance for non-overclockers/quality for a very long time.

MSI is the one with good feature sets for new markets, and ditch them later.

At least I know these brands have not done bad enough things for years. Only Asus is turning bad.

[blackbelt_jones]

Ahh, the point is that I've only said Asus, not the other brands. I still believe Intel/Gigabyte and MSI will not do that, at least in my view now.

Well, I wasn't quoting you. I was quoting the guy at my local computer shop.

I'm not having a lot of luck finding manufacturer information for the capacitors of this particular board (ASus P4P800E Deluxe) SO I'm just gonna google for reviews. I'm seeing overwhelmingly positive reviews, so I'm very close to getting it, while covering my butt as much as possible with a service contract. Ain't nothin perfect in this world.

Sooo... this is probably where it's going to wind up. Thanks for everybody's input. I'll let you all know how it works out by posting in this thread.

[cybertron]

wow, 35A @ 12 vdc is a lot of power.
I think this is an example of what I mentioned earlier with a PSU having about double what it should for that value. I'm not sure how they calculate it, but clearly some companies use different methods. My guess is you can figure more like 17.5A for this PSU since that seems more reasonable and fits with what I've seen on other power supplies. Still 17.5 is certainly acceptable since that's more than a good chunk the other ones out there have.

Oh, and I have actually heard good things about Rosewill, although they've only been showing up on NewEgg for the last year or so, IIRC. I haven't heard a lot, but what I have heard has generally been decent, although since their stuff is generally cheaper there's a price/performance aspect to that.

[je_fro]

Antec True 550

[zeroth]

I've got a Chaintech Motherboard (model 9pjl2 to be exact). costed me about 90 bucks, and I love it. had it over a year, as well as my Antec True Power 550 (isn't it just called the Antec True550?) and love that as well.

I've never used Asus motherboards before, but the next PC I built, I think I'm gunna stick with Chaintech.

www.chaintechusa.com

[blackbelt_jones]

Another few words...
newegg
Antec True Power 550
newegg

Well, je_fro, I didn't follow your advice to get an Antec PSU (went with Rosewill) but I did get a n Asus MoBo, and I ordered both from NewEgg. Two out of three ain't bad. They're supposed to arrive to morrow, thank God. I don't want to insult the faithful old Gateway I'm using now, more than any other the machine I learned Linux on-- but 266 mhz is not a lot of mhz.

[XiaoKJ]

remember to pray to the computer god for blessing your computer with longevity.(sp?)

and treat it nicely. may the speed be with you.

[blackbelt_jones]

Well, the new components are installed, and all is well (so far) and all is well (so far)