Setting up two routers...

[Minime80]

Okay, for a while now I've had stuff setup fine and everything worked. I had my cable modem going out to my router (linksys VoIP from Vonage) and my computer hooked up off of that. I had some port forwarding stuff set up on the router so that amule and some other special programs worked.

Well, my birthday just arrived and along with it came a new WiFi enabled PDA and Wireless-G router (it was cheaper than an access point).

My question is, what's the best way to set all this stuff up... which router first, which second... what do I need to tell each router about the network so that all this stuff works (PDA can access internet, computer can access internet, amule still connects to servers fine, etc.)

I have tried with limited success. It seems I can get one to work, and then the other will stop working. I can get all the WiFi security stuff to work great, I just need help with the IP addresses and routing (not much experience in this area). I have even managed to somehow change something so that I couldn't even get back into the router setup (192.168.1.1) and had to do a factory reset.

Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.

~ Nick

[retsaw]

It shouldn't really matter which way round you have the routers. You will need to make sure they are using different subnets, you will also need to set up a route on the main router (whichever one has the direct internet connection) to the subnet which the secondary router controls. It will also be best if you set the secondary routers configuration statically rather than have it aquire it from the first router via DHCP, so that it isn't subject to change (which would mean you have to edit the routing table on the first router) when one of the routers is rebooted. Depending on your knowledge of networking this probably isn't very clear, but if you let me know which bits you do and don't understand I can then go into more detail.

[XiaoKJ]

Ok, I think it makes a difference.

In fact, I'd believe that if you put the wired router on the outer perimeter it will be better as it is designed to handle only wired load, thus will handle it better. Let it figure out where to route all your packets.

For the wireless router, if you put it inner in the system, you can make it handle almost only wireless loads. It will function better too.

Finally, I believe that you should either disable routing function in one of the routers or set them up as different subnets, like what retsaw said. In different subnets, we mean the difference in 10.x.x.x and 192.168.x.x.

[Minime80]

Ok, I think it makes a difference.

In fact, I'd believe that if you put the wired router on the outer perimeter it will be better as it is designed to handle only wired load, thus will handle it better. Let it figure out where to route all your packets.

For the wireless router, if you put it inner in the system, you can make it handle almost only wireless loads. It will function better too.

So by outer do you mean closer (connection-wise) to the Cable modem? I think what you're saying is to put the wired router after the modem and connect the desktop to it, and then connect it to the wireless router so that all it deals with is the wireless stuff. Is that right?

Finally, I believe that you should either disable routing function in one of the routers or set them up as different subnets, like what retsaw said. In different subnets, we mean the difference in 10.x.x.x and 192.168.x.x.

Okay, would 192.168.1.x and 192.168.15.x be different enough?

[retsaw]

Yes, or even 192.168.1.x and 192.168.2.x will do. I would actually say that the way round that XiaoKJ said is better for a different reason as you'd want your VoIP traffic to get priority and the VoIP router can do that (at least I'd assume it does, it may not), but it has to have a direct connection to do that, otherwise I shouldn't think a home network would place significant load on either of the routers for it to make a difference.

[XiaoKJ]

Ah yes....

But the load I am talking about is supposed to be as much as their threshold, and normally only applicable in theory.

But if you really don't need the second router, get it off. Normal home networks are too little a deal for you to work out so much for. you can keep one of them as backup this way. copy your configuration (unfortunately manually) to the wireless one and you are done :). Keep your VoIP router.

and retsaw, its not only VoIP. Its any traffic to the WAN. :)

[retsaw]

Well, if one router connects a phone to Vonage's VoIP network and the other provides a wireless connection, then even though only one router is needed, they both have different capablities other than routing which are both needed, so we'll just have to work around the fact they are both routers as we need to make use of their other abilities.

and retsaw, its not only VoIP. Its any traffic to the WAN. :)

I realise that, but my point was that you want VoIP to have priority over anything else, you don't want problems with your phone calls when (for example) you have a large download going using up all your bandwidth.

[XiaoKJ]

That is not my point, thats yours. You are brilliant. :)

I really didn't see it. I don't have a VoIP router anyway... Minime80 listen to retsaw.

[Minime80]

Okay, I set it up as you guys suggested (modem to wired router to wireless router). Set the wired router to 192.168.15.x and the wireless to 192.168.1.x and used static IP on the wireless router of IP: 192.168.15.100, subnet mask: 255.255.255.0, gateway: 192.168.15.1.

Now, it's almost working flawlessly except for a minor glitch. If I have the computer hooked up through the wireless router I can get online and access both router setups (through their respective IP's), but my amule port forwarding (set up the same on both routers) quits working. Then, if I hook up my computer through the wired router like I want to everything seems to work (including amule), but I no longer have access to the wireless router's setup (unless the IP gets changed from 192.168.1.1). I tried fiddling with the wired router's static routing settings to set up a route to the wireless router, but I'm not sure what numbers I need to use.

There's also settings on the wired router for NAT being on or off (I have it on) and a choice on the wireless router between acting as a gateway or router (I have it set to gateway). Anyways, I hope that makes sense... if it helps at all the wired router is a Linksys RT31P2, and the wireless router is a Linksys WRT54G.

Thanks for all your help guys.

EDIT: Here's what shows up on the routing tables in each router's setup (when computer is hooked up through wireless router.


WIRED ROUTER:
Destination Lan IP | Subnet Mask | Default Gateway | Hop Count | Interface
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 24.21.40.1 1 WAN
24.21.40.0 255.255.254.0 0.0.0.0 1 WAN
192.168.15.0 255.255.255.0 0.0.0.0 1 LAN
192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 192.168.1.0 1 LAN

WIRELESS ROUTER:
Destination Lan IP | Subnet Mask | Default Gateway | Interface
192.168.1.0 255.255.255.0 0.0.0.0 LAN & Wireless
192.168.15.0 255.255.255.0 0.0.0.0 WAN (Internet)
0.0.0.0 0.0.0.0 192.168.15.1 WAN (Internet)

[retsaw]

Make sure that the static IP used by the wireless router is not in the range assigned by the wired routers DHCP server. Also the route pointing to the wireless routers subnet should have the wireless routers static IP on the wired routers network as the gateway (i.e. 192.168.15.100).

I have that wireless router, and just checking the settings on mine it is set to gateway and hasn't given me any problems, so it's probably best that you leave it like that.

[Minime80]

Alright, I set the wireless router's static IP to 192.168.15.254 (range of DHCP on wired router was 192.168.15.100 - 192.168.15.149), and left the subnet mask and gateway as above. I then set up a route on the wired router of Destination LAN IP: 192.168.1.0, subnet mask: 255.255.255.0, gateway: 192.168.15.254 (same as static IP assigned)... and I still can't figure out how to access the wireless router's setup stuff when connected to the wired router (I tried 192.168.15.254 and 192.168.1.1).

[retsaw]

Because of your setup your wireless router considers your wired network as the internet, so you have to enable remote management, it is in the administration menu, I haven't actually tried this, but I'm pretty sure its what you need.

[Minime80]

Well, that didn't work either, but it's not important... how often am I going to be changing the settings once it's up and running right? Anyways, everything seems to be running fairly smoothly (desktop gets online, amule works, PDA can connect and get online/check mail)... there is one slight hiccup that I just ran into though, and I was wondering if anybody had any idea what might cause it because it's baffling me.

Here's what happens: everything is going along just hunky dory, then I open up amule to start downloading a file and leave it to download while I go do something else, then I decide to pop out my PDA to check my mail.... and nothing works! It says it's connected to the network just like before, but everything times out (browser, email), and if I close amule the PDA goes right back to chugging along normally.

Any ideas? Thanks.

[Gertrude]

Why do you even need the 2 routers? There is nothing to really gain by doing that other than adding more points of failure.

Edit:


Here's what happens: everything is going along just hunky dory, then I open up amule to start downloading a file and leave it to download while I go do something else, then I decide to pop out my PDA to check my mail.... and nothing works! It says it's connected to the network just like before, but everything times out (browser, email), and if I close amule the PDA goes right back to chugging along normally.


Make sure the routers have the latests firmware installed. There have been quite few issues with different soho routers not being able to operate properly, and locking up when there are large amounts of connections passing through them. P2P software, and games are usually the main cause of this.

[mi6]

You didn't mention if your wireless router supports bridging mode. Look through your documentation, if it can be used as a wireless bridge that will simplify things.

[keywi]

Can't you turn the AP into a gateway and set the first three numbers the same and let the wired router do everything else?

William

PS: and that way you can have your wireless and eat it too. :D