I have just clean installed Fedora Core 4 and I am having a problem with sqawks and hisses from my speakers. FC4 includes ALSA/gstreamer/amixer as sound driver and sound manager. I am using Ensoniq 5880 AudioPCI and an ATI TV Wonder tuner. So I have a cheap sound, TV and speaker setup. Sound and music are not a priority for me, I don't even own one music CD or a movie DVD so I know little about what the mixer provides. I have only selected PC Speaker and Line-in on my mixer gui.
I have received several ALSA patches from Fedora (including a ALSA prelink) since installing. Each patch improved the sound performance, but I still have annoying lowlevel hisses and sqwaks that seem to (in part) shadow my key strokes, event sounds, etc.
The noise comes from only my ancillary speaker (on the right) that is linked to the speaker (left) connected to my computer and that has the on/off button and volume control.
TV audio does not make these noises. I have moved my audio and TV tuner cards to PCI slots that are as far apart as possible -- that helped. So did resetting all sound components and wires. I believe (but I am not certain by any means) that there might be some extra ambient electrical radiation produced by my computer and particularly my ATI Wonder card that my sound card or outlets are picking up.
Is there a way to fix (or improve) my sound situation? Is it neccessary to isolate my sound card and are there tips and tricks for doing that?
Regards
StarTiger
06-22-2005, 12:55 PM
First off, what is your hadware?
Next, check the mixer settings. try turning down your volume on some stuff, and also turn off imputs that you aren't using
Bill Case
06-22-2005, 01:25 PM
Thanks StarTiger;
I thought my hardware description was in my signature; wrong mailing list. I've update my JL signature.
I have a Pentium 4 desktop with 640Mb ram.
Next, check the mixer settings. try turning down your volume on some stuff, and also turn off imputs that you aren't using
"I have only selected PC Speaker and Line-in on my mixer gui." As I say I am only using these two imputs. My volume on my mixer for both of these is about 50%. The volume on my main desktop speaker is set at 30% -- 40%. When using FC3 the noise level was there but very low. I didn't hear it unless I really cranked up the volume. Under FC4 it's annoyingly present in the background. At first I don't notice the noise much but after work for an hour or so it becomes very pervasive.
Regards Bill
StarTiger
06-22-2005, 02:53 PM
What is your sound card and speakers?
Do you actually use your line-in source? On my system, I'll get that back round noise only when i have that port on. so turn it off when i'm not using it.
Bill Case
06-22-2005, 05:01 PM
Thanks StarTiger;
Strange, tvtime sets line-in for the TV tuner's use as default (so they claim). I removed it from my mixer and didn't make a difference. As I said, I haven't paid much attention to sound. Could tvtime be using another line that I don't know about and do you know any command line queries that would tell me?
Regards Bill
DSwain
06-22-2005, 05:24 PM
If you want to know what sound system you have, try lspci and look for something about a sound device. I think that's what you're asking for.
Bill Case
06-22-2005, 05:44 PM
Thanks DSwain;
No that's not what I am asking. I know what sound card I have. See my original post.
My question is: If the tvtime literature says that tvtime uses 'line-in' by default, and I have turned 'line-in' off, and when I use tvtime it does not turn on the 'line-in' then how is the sound getting to my speakers?
Regards Bill
Bill Case
06-22-2005, 10:52 PM
Hi;
Additional information: I have turned off every sound modality in my mixer. As long as I keep the volume of desktop speaker at 40% all the interference noise is gone or is at least sub-audible. I still can get computer event sounds and TV Audio. Which fixes my problem, but removes any use I might have for my mixer controls and leaves me completely perplexed over who or what is controlling my sound.
banzaikai
06-23-2005, 08:26 AM
If I may...
You can turn off the PC Speaker input, since this is used for the connection from the mobo's "SPKR" header to the soundcard, which allows the PC speaker to sound off through your amplified speakers, instead of the internal speaker. If there's a "button" speaker element on your mobo, as most are now shipped that way, then you aren't using this feature, and probably never will. It also explains why the humming only comes from the right channel, since the speaker is a monophonic input.
Now, I've discussed this before, but it bears repeating: There's more than one way to get audio information around a computer - Analog and Digital. Your TV card sees that the Analog inputs are turned off, so it switches to the Digital way of getting it In/Out. Therefore, you still hear everything going on. This is called Digital Signal Processing, or DSP for short. You'll see it in your /sbin/lsmod somewhere.
Again, as everyone's mentioned, if you don't need it, then turn it off. And it doesn't hurt to try this, as you can always go back and turn it on again.
banzai "dedicated speaker" kai
Bill Case
06-23-2005, 10:33 AM
Thanks banzaikai "If I may..."
You certainly may.
I left my computer on overnight and the noise is audiably back.
All lines on my mixer gui are off. It seems to me you are saying that somehow my internal 'button speaker' is causing the interference and that I should turn it off. How?
This button speaker interference makes some sense to me because the 'noise' is still coming from my right speaker and if I listen closely the differnt *.wav (I think) bell sounds that are made at different computer events (e.g. opening a file) are scratch and fuzzy like they used to be on my old XT.
By the way, when I run the sound test gui, I hear sounds from both speakers as I should but the sound includes a lot of scratchy 'noise'. In FC3, the sound test was clear.
Regards
P.S. - A day later - I tried running Audacity and got the following error message: "There was an error initializing the audio i/o layer. You will not be able to play or record audio." Is there any clues in that?
banzaikai
06-27-2005, 03:55 PM
I don't see DSP anywhere.
Oops. My bad. My setup doesn't show the DSP, either. You should find it in your /dev directory (ls /dev/dsp should list it). It may be part of the kernel.
It seems to me you are saying that somehow my internal 'button speaker' is causing the interference and that I should turn it off. How?
Err, no. What I was saying was that certain computers allowed you to use your sound card in place of the internal speaker (which used to be a real speaker that you'd hook up to the mobo header - new mobos have a small peizo installed, so you don't need this). If you don't have the two-lead cable from the "SPKR" pins on the mobo running to the sound card, then you don't have this, and should have the "PC Speaker" slider muted. Some modems have something like this, too, and you might want to check for a three-lead cable from the modem to your sound card, and temporarily disconnect it for testing. After that, the only other cable in or out is the CDROM, and that should be okay if it doesn't do it in Windows, but check it anyway.
...the 'noise' is still coming from my right speaker and if I listen closely the differnt *.wav (I think) bell sounds that are made at different computer events (e.g. opening a file) are scratch and fuzzy like they used to be on my old XT.
This may just be a case of over-modulation/saturation. On some cards, if the volume is up around 90-100%, then the amplifier starts clipping the waveforms passing through. I always set my sliders to about 75-80% to be safe. You could also try hooking up your Line Out to a (quiet) stereo amp and seeing what it sounds like. Maybe the output stage is flaky.
P.S. - A day later - I tried running Audacity and got the following error message: "There was an error initializing the audio i/o layer. You will not be able to play or record audio." Is there any clues in that?
It looks like you're running the OSS mixer, which means that you may have something using the audio device already. ALSA allows multiple device sharing by splitting things up into channels (there's another thread around here which shows how to edit your alsa config to do this). However, I'm also running OSS, and don't have this problem, but I'm not running event sounds or anything - just XMMS and the like.
banzai "the quiet company" kai
Bill Case
07-02-2005, 02:16 PM
No, I am running the Alsa mixer. If 'line-in' is on I can hear my TV programs, but the event sounds have background noise. If 'line-in' is muted or removed, and PCM is unmuted all sounds (event, cd's etc.) are good and clear, but the TV can't be heard. TV time config file (tvtime.xml) permits /dev/mixer:pcm but tvtime keeps switching 'line-in' to unmuted. I understand what you are saying about the TV card switching to 'line-in' if it can't detect analog inputs. But then why isn't it detecting my sound card properly and using PCM.
Regards Bill
XiaoKJ
07-03-2005, 06:20 AM
why not like this, bill, post all the sliders for the alsa mixer for us to see. in text or pic form as you wish, so we can actually see where is your problem.
post not just the out put ones, but all of them.
Finally, thanks banzaikai --- that was indeed informational. But he may also need dmixer -- alsa alone doesn't allow for multiple connections to the soundcard
Bill Case
07-03-2005, 06:49 AM
Hi;
Below is the output of amixer with TV on i.e. Line-in on. When I turn the TV off I have to mute Line-in or else I continue to get TV sound even when there is no video.
$ amixer
Simple mixer control 'Master',0
Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Front Left: Playback 23 [74%] [on]
Front Right: Playback 23 [74%] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Master Mono',0
Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Mono: Playback 0 [0%] [off]
Simple mixer control '3D Control - Switch',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control '3D Control Sigmatel - Depth',0
Capabilities: volume volume-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Limits: 0 - 3
Mono: 0 [0%]
Simple mixer control 'PCM',0
Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Front Left: Playback 17 [55%] [on]
Front Right: Playback 17 [55%] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Line',0
Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Front Left: Playback 27 [87%] [on] Capture [on]
Front Right: Playback 27 [87%] [on] Capture [on]
Simple mixer control 'CD',0
Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Front Left: Playback 0 [0%] [off] Capture [off]
Front Right: Playback 0 [0%] [off] Capture [off]
Simple mixer control 'Mic',0
Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Playback channels: Mono
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Mono: Playback 23 [74%] [off]
Front Left: Capture [off]
Front Right: Capture [off]
Simple mixer control 'Mic Boost (+20dB)',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'Mic Select',0
Capabilities:
Mono:
Simple mixer control 'Video',0
Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Front Left: Playback 0 [0%] [on] Capture [off]
Front Right: Playback 0 [0%] [on] Capture [off]
Simple mixer control 'Phone',0
Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Playback channels: Mono
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Mono: Playback 0 [0%] [off]
Front Left: Capture [off]
Front Right: Capture [off]
Simple mixer control 'IEC958',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'PC Speaker',0
Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Limits: Playback 0 - 15
Mono: Playback 0 [0%] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Aux',0
Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Playback 0 - 31
Front Left: Playback 0 [0%] [off] Capture [off]
Front Right: Playback 0 [0%] [off] Capture [off]
Simple mixer control 'Mono Output Select',0
Capabilities:
Mono:
Simple mixer control 'Capture',0
Capabilities: cvolume cswitch cswitch-joined
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Limits: Capture 0 - 15
Front Left: Capture 0 [0%] [off]
Front Right: Capture 0 [0%] [off]
Simple mixer control 'Mix',0
Capabilities: cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Front Left: Capture [off]
Front Right: Capture [off]
Simple mixer control 'Mix Mono',0
Capabilities: cswitch cswitch-joined cswitch-exclusive
Capture exclusive group: 0
Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right
Front Left: Capture [off]
Front Right: Capture [off]
Simple mixer control 'External Amplifier',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
Simple mixer control 'Sigmatel 4-Speaker Stereo',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [on]
Simple mixer control 'Sigmatel Surround Phase Inversion Playback ',0
Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
Playback channels: Mono
Mono: Playback [off]
To restate the problem:
On 'line-in' my speakers hiss and squawk and the event sounds are terrible but I
have no background noise problems when 'line-in' is muted and PCM is open.
tvtimes keeps reverting to line-in.
Audacity gives error: "There was an error initializing the audio i/o layer. ..."
Every time I logon, PCM gets muted in my mixer gui.
CD's play fine.
My tvtimes configuration file /etc/tvtime/tvtime.xml is set to <option
name="MixerDevice" value="/dev/mixer: pcm"/>
Soundcard detection responds with the test sound + a very scratchy background.
gstreamer-properties gui (Multimedia Systems Selector) test gives me the following:
With PCM on and 'line-in ' muted:
Output ALSA pipeline alsasink = good clear sound.
Input ALSA pipeline alsasrc = no sound (crashes gui)
With PCM muted and 'line-in ' on:
Output ALSA pipeline alsasink = sound + hissing background.
Input ALSA pipeline alsasrc = no sound (crashes gui)
When I run the above gstreamer-properties test as root user, I get no alsasink
or alsasrc recognition at all.
permissions on /dev/dsp /dev/audio /dev/mixer all crw-------
At startup, from dmesg during udev initialization audio is intialized on bttv
and audio takes an uncommonly long time to get set.
My understanding is that it should start with ALSA.
I have run gst-register-0.8 as root. It made no difference.
Regards Bill
Bill Case
07-04-2005, 04:00 PM
Hi again;
From the fedora mailing list; someone mentioned that his /etc/udev/devices included his nivida sound card. While mine is Ensonq, my /etc/udev/devices file is empty. Is this significant?
Regards Bill
bwkaz
07-04-2005, 09:59 PM
alsa alone doesn't allow for multiple connections to the soundcard Not true. It seems to depend on your sound card.
My el-cheapo Yamaha YMF-724F definitely does allow more than one "connection" to /dev/dsp using Alsa's snd-pcm-oss (OSS compatibility layer), but I'm pretty sure that depends on the card's capabilities. I believe that even OSS allows me to do this with this card, but I haven't used it in a long time so I don't know for sure.
banzaikai
07-10-2005, 08:09 AM
This is really gettin' confusin', huh?
I'm about outta ideas, but some things to note:
With PCM on and 'line-in ' muted:
Output ALSA pipeline alsasink = good clear sound.
With PCM muted and 'line-in ' on:
Output ALSA pipeline alsasink = sound + hissing background.
Logic would then dictate that your Line-In is the culprit (or the handling thereof). Without seeing exactly how you've got things hooked up, it's hard to zero in on what it could be. Another site I was at (looking for another problem) noted the same thing I did a post or two back: try your mixer settings with nothing above 60%, except the Master Volume.
My tvtimes configuration file /etc/tvtime/tvtime.xml is set to <option
name="MixerDevice" value="/dev/mixer: pcm"/>
The pcm is the "Pulse-Code Modulation" (digital), and is how the audio can get to the sound card without a cable, or with the Line-In muted. Why TVtime keeps bouncing this back to Line-In (analog) is beyond me.
See if you can try all this using OSS and see what happens. I don't use ALSA, and Audacity, Xine, XMMS, et. al. all work fine. I'd have to find a BTTV card and install it to help out any further, and that may take a while.
Not having the Ensoniq in udev could just be how the module handles the nVidia nForce mobos. My VIA doesn't show up there, either.
banzai "PVRless" kai
Bill Case
07-10-2005, 10:14 AM
Hi banzaikai;
I appreciate you sticking with me so far.
This is really gettin' confusin', huh?
I'm about outta ideas, but some things to note:Logic would then dictate that your Line-In is the culprit (or the handling thereof). Without seeing exactly how you've got things hooked up, it's hard to zero in on what it could be. Another site I was at (looking for another problem) noted the same thing I did a post or two back: try your mixer settings with nothing above 60%, except the Master Volume.
Changing the mixer settings didn't help, eh?
I thought I would take up a last few moments of your time, and for anyone else that can help. I ran the following tests for oss and others:
Multimedia Systems Selector (Audio)
As user bill: Test
Output ALSA alsasink clear sound
Artsd artsdsink no sound
ESD esdsink sound (tremble)
OSS ossink failed to construct test pipeline
Input ALSA alsasrc crashed
ESD esdmon no sound
OSS osssrc failed to construct test pipeline
Soundcard Detection: Sound but scratchy background
Volume Control (mixer)
Master on
PCM on
Line-in off
Audacity "error initializing the audio i/o layer"
Multimedia Systems Selector (Audio)
As user root: Test
Output ALSA alsasink failed to construct test pipeline
Artsd artsdsink no sound
ESD esdsink failed to construct test pipeline
OSS ossink scratchy sound
Input ALSA alsasrc failed to construct test pipeline
ESD esdmon failed to construct test pipeline
OSS osssrc failed to construct test pipeline
Soundcard Detection: Sound but scratchy background
Volume Control (mixer)
Master on
PCM on
Line-in off
Audacity : clear sound
I ran these tests after adding a kernel update from Fedora (2.6.12-1.1390_FC4). There are three new twists to notice. 1) I got different results depending on whether I was in my user account and in root's account (directly not by su). 2) OSS failed completely (in fact it crashed the Multimedia Systems Selector). 3) Magically, Audacity is now working -- but in root only. I still get an error dialogue in user.
Physical setup Becasue I have moved and reset my cards in new slots; because WindowsXP sound works fine using PCM; becasue I get good clear sound for user alsasink and now root audacity; I believe the physical setup has to be correct.
tvtime I now believe it is possible that the tvtime 'line-in' problem is a result of tvtime correcting for the non-detection of PCM, and, that tvtime issues can't be resolved until PCM problems are resolved.
Permissions The problem 'feels' to me??? like a basic permission problem. But after looking at each set of device's, module's, etc. mode and ownership, it seems to me that each one should be available to root and user. I tentively changed one or two but the original setting was restored at boot or login by something???.
Fedora Bugzilla I reported the problem to Fedora Bugzilla but got no helpful response other than a suggestion to install FC1 or FC2 ALSA. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=161279
Regards Bill
XiaoKJ
07-10-2005, 11:35 AM
I remember you posted that the permissions is crw------- for all your sound devices.
of course you will face problems. with that on, your sound devices are all owned by root and usable by root only.
but I don't think a simple change will do you good more than 1 day. get more advice from the others, esp banzaikai
Bill Case
07-10-2005, 12:23 PM
Thanks XiaoKJ;
My permissions are all like the following example:
crw------- 1 bill root 14, 0 Jul 9 05:48 /dev/mixer
crw------- 1 bill root 14, 3 Jul 9 05:48 /dev/dsp
crw------- 1 bill root 14, 4 Jul 9 05:48 /dev/audio
'bill' of course is me as owner/user . When I change them experimentally something changes them back after reboot and login. However, it shouldn't make a difference if 'bill' is owner; root would still have access too.
Later, I will want to be able to change ownership for additonal users but it shouldn't be a problem now -- I think.
The physical setup is so simple there can't be a mistake. Just set the sound card, then plug in an exterior line that came with the ATI TV Wonder card from a single female plug in the back of the TV card to an obvious female plug in the sound card. If I unplug them I get no TV sound no matter what else I do.
Regards Bill
banzaikai
07-11-2005, 02:01 PM
Hi banzaikai;
I appreciate you sticking with me so far.
I have not yet begun to fight. Or something to that effect ;)
A little tip on setting ownership: set both owner and group with the same command, like so:
chown bill:bill filename
This changes the owner and group in one shot, and works with wildcards so you can run an entire directory with "chown bill:bill *". This'll get rid of all that "bill:root" stuff. Also, set your user's groups to allow sound (if available) and root (it won't let you be root, just allows you to su and do root group stuff). It's under Applications -> System Settings -> Users and Groups.
Now, permissions will give you a permission (what else?) error - but we're not getting that, so I'm with XiaoKJ on this one: there's something we're not seeing or doing that's causing all this. Since you got something going with the kernel update, this may very well be where we'll look next. Did you, perchance, follow the install guide from Stanton Finley? I did, and I'm having some... "strange"... things happening. One of which I solved by undoing one of the things Stanton did: modify/unmodify the yum, apt, and synaptic repositories. After putting things back the way FC had them, my up2date worked fine. I'm going back over the guide to see what else may have been borked.
I'd see if updating your alsa with yum, or uninstalling and reinstalling alsa would do anything. If you have synaptic (yum install synaptic), then you can check things out before or after you install/upgrade. This is where my problem stemmed from, as I "tweaked" my repository files to add a site that wasn't quite kosher with the FC up2date, and got an RPM version or two that didn't play well with others. I just undid all that, uninstalled the given RPMs, and re-installed using the default repos, and presto!
In short (why didn't I just start with that?), if everything else has been eliminated, then the only answer is ALSA itself, or a dependency that it needs.
banzai "Bon Homme Richard" kai
Bill Case
07-12-2005, 05:31 PM
Thanks again banzaikai;
I followed your advice. Here is what happened.
This changes the owner and group in one shot, and works with wildcards so you can run an entire directory with "chown bill:bill *". This'll get rid of all that "bill:root" stuff.
Something is changing my chown and chmod back every time I change them and then subsequently login. But... I had been checking my ownership in root through 'su' on gnome terminal and got:
crw------- 1 bill root 14, 4 Jul 12 12:56 /dev/audio
crw------- 1 bill root 14, 3 Jul 12 12:56 /dev/dsp
crw------- 1 bill root 14, 0 Jul 12 12:56 /dev/mixer
I checked my users and groups for a sound 'user' to add to the 'bill' group and root group but there was nothing I recognized as sound specific and every other 'user' I did recognize as used for something else. What now?
I tried to up date ALSA through yum and got 'nothing to do'. I took your advice and removed ALSA using synaptic. But there was so many dependencies it wiped out half my system -- that's ok, I was well backed up . So I have re-installed and I then updated to all the latest ALSA programs.
So everything now should be installed, yet I still have the same problems wirh audacity, Multimedia Systems Selector, PCM, line-in and tvtime.
I just don't know?
Remember I do have sound -- kinda. I am willing to plow ahead and try to solve this until I get proper sound. I'll keep going as long as someone is willing to help. I think a lot of people are having problems with ALSA from FC3 forward, but since it is possible to do a workaround and get something from their speakers, they just drop it.
Regards Bill
banzaikai
07-13-2005, 05:06 AM
Something is changing my chown and chmod back every time I change them
My bad. You'll need to change the folder permissions, too. Just cd to "/" and "chown bill:bill /dev" and that should fix it (I thinks).
Well, by process of elimination, it looks like we have one of those "doesn't work right" problems with your hardware. What's strange is that the intel 8x0 drivers have been out for quite a while.
As a last resort, you could always disable the intel 8x0 and pop in another type of soundcard in there and see what happens (I've had good luck with my Mad Dog C-Media based Prowler 4.1 that I picked up at Office Max for ~$10 after rebate).
banzai "can't win 'em all" kai
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