Novice linux user gloating!!

[Budman21901]

My first linux distro was redhat 6.0, and i fought that distro for a year learning. I had no sound for a month. Then i did 7.0, and the same thing. I fought the video card. Then mandrake, and it worked perfectly till my new PC. 10.1 does not like my new PC. Not any distro's fault. I am a dummy for building it from HP. You know how like to incorperate there own versions of drivers for there restore disk. I use knoppix now. It like's all my modules except sound. Not sucessful loading the audigy zs. Anyway's I praised linux to my family, and friends, and they all just laughed at me for years. Well upon repairing there PC's i install firefox, and thunderbird for them to check them out. I always get emails back saying "firefox is awsome" who makes it, and stuff like that. I always point out to them its Open source, and a part of the linux community. If open source could make more mainstream programs that are available to the home windows user, it will sure get the word out there. Linux for sure will soon beat out microsoft. It may take 10yrs, or even 20yrs, but it will beat them in all types of computing. marketing, and streamlined distro for a home user is lacking. Home users dont want so many options. Other then that, it will come out on top. Thats just my novice opinion...

[GmarAppledude]

Since trying Linux again a few months ago (after a few year break) I have convinced 2 colleagues and 2 family members to try it. I think they are all giving it a good attempt but only time will tell. I for one am staying this time. My first Linux exposure was read hat 6.0 and it really wasn't great seeing how much improvement has taken place since then is very encouraging for the future.

[je_fro]

Why in the world should the Free Software community bother porting apps for windows users? It's not like we'll EVER see anything back from the free-beer-guzzling masses.
IMO, it's wasted energy.
(my $0.02)

[JayMan8081]

Originally posted by je_fro
Why in the world should the Free Software community bother porting apps for windows users? It's not like we'll EVER see anything back from the free-beer-guzzling masses.
IMO, it's wasted energy.
(my $0.02)
I don't think that they necessarily have to, but I know I enjoy it when they do. I use Firefox on every computer that I can install software on. I also use Thunderbird under Windows at home, along with the Gimp on Windows as well. It's nice having apps available on both Windows and Linux in that it means I only have to learn one program and can use it almost anywhere then. So it's not required, but I would agree it gets them a larger user base and in the end when I go to donate to projects I am more likely to do that for cross-platform projects. I don't know how hard it is to do but if it isn't insanely difficult then why not?

[bwkaz]

Once OpenOffice 2.0 gets released, I'll start pushing at work for moving over to it.

Because without MS Office, the second biggest reason against migrating all the desktops over to Linux just disappeared. (The biggest is Exchange's calendaring stuff in conjunction with Outlook. Hopefully Sunbird (or whatever they're calling it) will help with that one.)

Plus, it's extremely difficult to get a file-based database engine that's worse than Access... ;)

But anyway, the point of this post is this: Porting open source programs to Windows helps people be able to move to Linux, as long as the ported open-source program has comparable functionality to what they're already using. You can do the migration in steps, and once their applications are all cross platform, you can change the platform without any huge problems. (Not that you won't have any, they just won't be nearly as huge.)

[retsaw]

Originally posted by je_fro
Why in the world should the Free Software community bother porting apps for windows users? It's not like we'll EVER see anything back from the free-beer-guzzling masses.
IMO, it's wasted energy.
(my $0.02) Well, no-one is forcing them to port to Windows, perhaps the developers do it because they use Windows and want the app available for Windows themselves.

Although it is true that you won't see anything back for the masses who'll just be using the software on Windows because it doesn't cost them anything, that is because those people are only interested in getting what they need to do done and so won't bother to contribute back and they'd be the same if they were using Linux. There will be some that do contribute back though.

Personally I like it when it's done because I like to be able to use the same apps on Windows as I like to use on Linux, but I wouldn't expect a developer to do it just to satisfy me.

[madcompnerd]

It keeps you spry on the compatibility of what you are doing. If you just code for linux/bsd/Mac, well you really aren't going cross platform ;).
Another reason is that some apps gain a lot by having beer guzzling idiots using them. Gecko would suck if no one used it. Not because it would change, but because many sites would completely ignore 1-2% of the market (like they ignore khtml and opera) in favor of just being IE compatible. Now sites are taking notes, and they're looking harder at standards compatibility. The benefit: The only sites firefox doesn't open for me are written by beer guzzling idiots (my friends personal sites).
It's good to sort of move slow. Before I switched to linux I was already using mozilla and gaim. So when I switched, my two most used applications were exactly the same! So for my only annoyance was that I lacked sound for a month heh. But I quickly discovered applications that are linux only that I like a lot better than any windows equivalent (gqview is my favourite example). It's not ported to Windows TMK.

I think right now the biggest thing keeping people from switching is laziness. And the second biggest is "killer apps."
1.) M$ Choice Words
2.) UnIntuit Quicken
3.) Adobe Photoshop (GIMP for dummies or professionals)
4.) B Games (you know, those non-headliners that are pretty fun)
5.) Valve and their Steam-ing load.

[Icarus]

1.) M$ Choice Words
People are comfortable with the MS apps, it's hard to leave something you like for something you don't know much about

2.) UnIntuit Quicken
Ya, because Math is hard! :p

3.) Adobe Photoshop (GIMP for dummies or professionals)
Same as #1, people are comfortable with it...and hate learning new things

4.) B Games (you know, those non-headliners that are pretty fun)
Most games are crap, few good ones do reach Linux and they are becoming more common...keep them coming!

5.) Valve and their Steam-ing load. [/B][/QUOTE]
Runs well under wine! ;)
(Honestly, I think Steam is a good idea and Valve is doing a great job with new medium...too bad their prices don't reflect it! $49.95 for a download of HL2!?!!
And I thought most of the cost was in packaging :rolleyes:

[Parcival]

Originally posted by Icarus
3.) Adobe Photoshop (GIMP for dummies or professionals)
Same as #1, people are comfortable with it...and hate learning new things

Doesn't quite match my experience. Most people I know run pirated copies of Adobe Photoshop because they "know" Photoshop is THE BEST image manipulation program ever. Truth is, they don't know how to use the program, so it just sits on their computers untouched, and those who know how to use it (i.e. professionals) pay their licences.

The GIMP has been a good program to motivate people to migrate to Linux because they understand it is free, because it's (often) the first time in their life they get an explanation on how an image manipulation program works, and last but not least because they can start working with it in Windows right away and switch to Linux once they feel confident enough.

[WayStar]

It was programs like pov-ray and Blender on Windows that got me to try Linux in the first place.

It was having complete control over my own machine that has kept me with Linux for the last 4-5 years.

[nordinaryspider]

The GNUWin II project piqued my curiosity; before I got a taste of what was out here, I kept hearing that I wasn't smart enough to learn Linux or that I "just don't have time to waste fidgeting around with things you don't understand when you're supposed to be putting up posters for your lost pussycat and cleaning the waxy yellow build-up off the undersides of your kitchen cabinets."

I loved GNUWin and shared it with everyone I knew; the average windoze guru gradually became stupider and stupider but I was still afraid to try Linux without the encouragement of a Mandrake using friend and a $30 Pentium II on eBay that I don't really need.

As far as the sound issue on Knoppix, I have that too. That's one issue that's keeping me from trying Debian. However, my Compaq Presario S5000NX, which was a POS running XP and is similar to a POS HP, runs Dam Small Linux beautifully and has become my main Internet PC instead of a charge on my credit card to the city dump.

DSL runs nicely off of CD, so I encourage you to give it a try.

As for how much I will be able to give back to the community....well, that remains to be seen, as I am less than 3 months into my Linux journey, but I suspect it will come about during the time I do NOT have to spend wrestling with viruses, spyware, less-than-minimum-wage jobs to pay for software to use wrestling with abovementioned bugaboos etc. etc. etc.

Furthermore, having raised one windoze victim....er.....maybe I meant to say user...to adulthood, I have no intention of doing the same with my younger child.

:P

[madcompnerd]

Wow, this GNUwin thing looks pretty cool. I'd never heard of it before. It might make using windows less sucky without installing that whore cygwin!
Now, if I only had space left on my Windoze partition.

[je_fro]

Re: heh...
It was programs like pov-ray and Blender on Windows that got me to try Linux in the first place.

It was having complete control over my own machine that has kept me with Linux for the last 4-5 years.


Yeah, I can see where using non-M$ products might lead one to become more adventurous, but neither of those projects started as free software. Both pre-date Linux, Pov-Ray isn't GPL'ed, and Blender was only recently open-sourced. (desperation move by a dying company, like netscape....seems open source devs take a discarded corpse and breathe life into it over and over again)
Of course if someone has the skill and wants to do it, go for it, but I wouldnt. Mostly because I don't want to hear the whining.

[nordinaryspider]

Now, if I only had space left on my Windoze partition.

I wish I could give you some of my space because I made windoze WAY too big!!!! I couldn't imagine life without my GNUWin, but my old friends are all right there on my Linux partitions so I haven't even bothered installing the windoze ports of most of them.

When I'm done being adventuresome on my pre-borked Mandrake install, I think I'm ready for my first M$-free machine.

[WayStar]

Originally posted by je_fro
Re: heh...


Yeah, I can see where using non-M$ products might lead one to become more adventurous, but neither of those projects started as free software. Both pre-date Linux, Pov-Ray isn't GPL'ed, and Blender was only recently open-sourced. (desperation move by a dying company, like netscape....seems open source devs take a discarded corpse and breathe life into it over and over again)
Of course if someone has the skill and wants to do it, go for it, but I wouldnt. Mostly because I don't want to hear the whining.

Ah, I see. As far as Pov-Ray, I was considering Free Software movement to encompass more than the GPL. And it's true that Blender didn't start out as open source. (It wasn't the same as netscape -folks like me pooled together money to free the sources.)

The draw for me moving from Windows to Linux wasn't Windows viruses, high costs or lack of principles. What drew me to Linux was finding out how much *better* these apps performed on Linux than the supposedly standard Windows.

You're probably quite right about the whining though. Not porting to Windows might help keep out some of the riff-raff. And besides, it might be a good thing for Linux to have some kick-butt apps that never get ported to Windows. It could prevent folks from thinking they can have it both ways without dual booting or vmware or such.

-Waylena

[je_fro]

Originally posted by WayStar
And besides, it might be a good thing for Linux to have some kick-butt apps that never get ported to Windows....
-Waylena

Exaaaactly...
;)

[madcompnerd]

I think linux will have lots of kick butt apps that likely won't really get ported to Windows. I'd say bash, but I'm pretty sure it's been ported to doze. But there is still things like system init, all the KDE apps (I hope they don't waste time porting) and of course the kernel is becoming itself a reason to use it over Windows.

I wonder how NTkernel scales to over 1024 processes? Did anyone else see that article about the server that hosts the linux tree? They found out by practice that load average rolls over at 1024...

[GmarAppledude]

Originally posted by madcompnerd
I wonder how NTkernel scales to over 1024 processes? Did anyone else see that article about the server that hosts the linux tree? They found out by practice that load average rolls over at 1024...

That sounds interesting, did you keep a link, I'd be like to read that.

[XbaxeSysAdmin]

I prefer linux to windoze coz linux breated new life into my poor P3 box .... It was darn laggy when i played WC3 on it but now when ive got a nice new P4 , i realise ive lost the cd but still have the cd-key! When i use mozila on Mandrake 10.1 , its loading is slow but once its running its uber fast!(BTW , why is OOo so slow?!?)

Guess i went sorta outta point there , just my 0.2 cents

[nordinaryspider]

I prefer linux to windoze coz linux breated new life into my poor P3 box .

My primary distro is one of the fastest out there. The slowest machine I use it on is a Pentium II 166 Mhz which worked okay with 48 MB RAM, better when I could upgrade to 128.

It kicks butt on my 2.5 gig Celeron.

All of my hardware was barely functional garbage on Windows.

Many people can't even afford that and would consider me fortunate to have the 166 Mhz PII.

"People" like Bill Gate$ and GWB did not get where they are by allowing "the masses" access to information.

I can wax poetical about how depressed I get when I see all the evil in the world and how Linux is the one bright spot that gives me hope for the human race. I guess I sound pretty silly when I do; it's not a religion or a relationship, it's an operating system.

[madcompnerd]

http://kerneltrap.org/node/5070

[GmarAppledude]

Originally posted by madcompnerd
http://kerneltrap.org/node/5070

Cheers this is facinating stuff