Longhorn-definitely by Summer 2006

[hard candy]

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/longhorn_preview_2005.asp

release to manufacturers by May 2006, so retail by Summer/Fall 2006? And we'll be on kernel 2.8 or 2.10 by then? Think Longhorn will read ext3 or reiserfs filesystems?
"In an email message to all full-time employees on August 27, Microsoft group vice president Jim Allchin said that the company's customers "love our vision" but just wanted parts of it to be delivered sooner. He said that Microsoft will deliver the following in 2006:

"# The highest quality OS we have ever shipped

# New information management tools to improve productivity, including fast desktop search and new, intuitive ways to organize files

# Major security advances that build on Windows XP SP2, such as new technologies to make clients more resilient to attack, viruses and malware

# Flexible and powerful tools to reduce deployment costs for enterprise customers, including technologies for image creation, editing and installation; and much simpler upgrades for consumers

# Significant improvements in reliability, including a robust diagnostic infrastructure to detect, analyze and fix problems quickly, and new backup tools to keep data safe

# A platform that creates Developer excitement with the availability of rich APIs [application programming interfaces]

(See, another post so I can hit 5000 by the weekend. :) )

[happybunny]

i have heard that they have given up on the new NFS5 filesystem, i guess 'cause they wouldn't meet any deadline with that.

I have gathered from article's that the new MS Office will contain a proprietary file format so you MUST use MS Office to read it.

So as to your point about it reading ext3, I doubt it and it looks like less and less things will be able to see MS data much longer.

[blackbelt_jones]

Wow, the highest quality Windows ever? Aim high, motherf**kers!

[tlyons]

Originally posted by blackbelt_jones
Wow, the highest quality Windows ever? Aim high, motherf**kers!

Actually, they can aim relatively low, and still deliver the highest quality Windows ever.

- T.

[cybertron]

Originally posted by happybunny
I have gathered from article's that the new MS Office will contain a proprietary file format so you MUST use MS Office to read it.

If that's true then I can guarantee that I will stop helping anyone who is using MS formats for anything. At least as soon as I get away from our help desk where that's my job:) Only about six months of that left though.

On the plus side, this might push our IS department over the edge to using OpenOffice as our recommended office suite. We've been discussing the problems with converting over, but to me this would make that point moot since the big boss likes open source and we've already been bitten by vendor lock-in.

[Icarus]

Yeah, a new verision of Windows that will be nothing but a patched XP kernel, new theme and a shuffle of the menus so you can't find anything and need to relearn it!

I hear it comes with it's own personal worm generator, so they can start taking over the market from those virus writters! It's even free!

[cybertron]

Originally posted by Icarus
I hear it comes with it's own personal worm generator, so they can start taking over the market from those virus writters! It's even free!
One place where I wouldn't mind the extinguish part of embrace, extend, extinguish:D

[blackbelt_jones]

Originally posted by tlyons
Actually, they can aim relatively low, and still deliver the highest quality Windows ever.

- T.

Don't get a lot of sarcasm in Canada, eh?

[Parcival]

Well, I am looking forward to Longhorn because it will be good advertisement for Linux.

[beerman]

So if I understand correctly, they are not going to put in most of the features that would have made this OS any good (mainly the new FS)? And people are going to be expected to shell out hundreds of dollars fo this crap?

[Icarus]

Originally posted by beerman
So if I understand correctly, they are not going to put in most of the features that would have made this OS any good (mainly the new FS)? And people are going to be expected to shell out hundreds of dollars fo this crap? Isn't that the way it has been for the last 10 years?

[hard candy]

And people are going to be expected to shell out hundreds of dollars fo this crap?

Do you not realize when you pay $195 for an OS and avoid the OS (like Suse) that cost $90, your Total Cost O(ownership?, operations?) is less? Now if you had paid attention in that business class, you would realize $195<$90. And since you avoid having to learn anything and can call Tech support for $35/hour, that saves you money as well. So I am shocked you would question the right of a company to charge for their product, are you a "LIBERAL/SOCIALIST" or want to take bread from the mouths of poor programmers in Redmond (even though Microsoft laid off 65 testers the other day since the operations were moving to India, they support the working person of America).

(Oh goody, only 39 posts to go)

[IsaacKuo]

39 posts to what? A big 100 post spamgasm? :p

[cybertron]

Originally posted by IsaacKuo
39 posts to what? A big 100 post spamgasm? :p
Yeah, you do realize don't you, hc, that that will only give you 4900 posts, not the 5000 you're looking for:D

[bsm2001]

Originally posted by IsaacKuo
39 posts to what? A big 100 post spamgasm? :p

39 more heplful post the other 4861 were always in /dev/random. ;)

[deathadder]

You shouldnt have pointed that out, now he knows his got 139 posts to go, the spamgasm will last another day or so now :)

[hard candy]

Well, now that you all have given a challenge, impugning my math skills and such, I decided to make it 38 to go until 4900, and THEN I can work on the other 100. (Maybe if I put one word in each post? );)

[cybertron]

Originally posted by hard candy
(Maybe if I put one word in each post? );)
Ooh, try it! I'd like to see a mod get banned from his own board:D

Hmm, this leaves me only 15 posts to 1100...;)

[enshum]

"Longhorn-definitely by Summer 2006" I prefer the handle Shorthorn for their new product they left a lot stuff on the table to get this thing to market. Seems like another virus sponge to me.:)

[soulestream]

im actually really glad they are getting it out soon. My only worry about the new system was winfs. we are just now getting to use ntfs. If MS$ came out with a new FS we would have to start over. Last I heard they pushed that back to 2008.

and yes I know that ext3 other *nix FS are better, but that doesnt help when Im using DSL or Mephis to fix a windows machine.


soule

[blackbelt_jones]

Originally posted by hard candy
Do you not realize when you pay $195 for an OS and avoid the OS (like Suse) that cost $90, your Total Cost O(ownership?, operations?) is less? Now if you had paid attention in that business class, you would realize $195<$90. And since you avoid having to learn anything and can call Tech support for $35/hour, that saves you money as well. So I am shocked you would question the right of a company to charge for their product, are you a "LIBERAL/SOCIALIST" or want to take bread from the mouths of poor programmers in Redmond (even though Microsoft laid off 65 testers the other day since the operations were moving to India, they support the working person of America).

(Oh goody, only 39 posts to go)

That TCO was one of the great advertising concepts of all time. Somebody in Redmond was up all night thinking up that one. Sort of reminds me of those WMDs.

[Parcival]

Originally posted by hard candy
... they support the working person of America).

I just had it in my email the other day that some European analysts believe OSS will be what saves European IT jobs so they remain here. Their argument:

The Indian workforce may enable corporations to produce and and maintain cheaply their standard products once they come out of their lab. Perfect for a software like Windows-whatever.
However, one can not export innovation, and if one requires a tailored system one needs a local programmer to talk to, too. Now this is where OSS kicks in: with OSS innovation is encouraged, OSS is highly adaptable to one's needs, and it can be worked on anywhere in the world, right at one's customer's place if they desire.

Oh, and there I got this little note in my email saying Bulgaria won't renew its Microsoft liscences. The Bulgarian Internet Society and the UN started a project concerning OSS for the Balkan nations, and they say today one can already get support for OSS in the far corners of the Kosovo, but not for MS products. Oh, and the legal committee of the German Bundestag has decided against the EU software patents project.

[robagen]

I expect the pricing will be the same: $300+tax new,
$200+tax for the upgrade, or so(OOps, forgot xphome upgr. is $100).
:rolleyes:

[blackbelt_jones]

Originally posted by happybunny
I have gathered from article's that the new MS Office will contain a proprietary file format so you MUST use MS Office to read it.


That's great. So if I use Open Office, anybody can read my documents, but if I use MS Office, only MS Office users can read my documents? What ARE these people thinking? I'm LOVIN IT!:cool:

[enshum]

"I expect the pricing will be the same: $300+tax new,
$200+tax for the upgrade, or so(OOps, forgot xphome upgr. is $100)." I 'd rather buy Suse 9.2 pro or Xandros or donate to Slackware! Windows shouldn't be free they should be forced to pay you to use it.

[Syngin]

Yeah, plus they're going to be instituting Windows cd key checks to download updates. That alone is the best thing to happen to Linux in a while. Think of all of those cheap people with burned copies who don't want to shell out tons of $$$ for their new OS.

[Icarus]

Don't worry Syngin, after the first major worm/virus to hit unpatched Windows machines MS will open it back up to everyone...again

[Parcival]

Originally posted by Syngin
Yeah, plus they're going to be instituting Windows cd key checks to download updates. That alone is the best thing to happen to Linux in a while. Think of all of those cheap people with burned copies who don't want to shell out tons of $$$ for their new OS.

We should ask Bill Gates if he's going to sponsor black SUVs and black suits for every LUG so we can go knocking on people's doors and ask them if they have a legal copy of Windows... in case they don't we don't need to tell him that we're going to leave them a Knoppix CD. ;)

[Sepero]

One sentence:
"Never under estimate your enemy."

[Parcival]

Another sentence:

"If you can't beat them, join them" :eek: :eek: :eek:

;)

[infiniphunk]

One sentence:
"Never under estimate your enemy."
At this point I view microsoft pretty much the same way I view McDonalds; hugely successful corporation that makes giant profits from the fact that people (for the most part) have really poor taste. I don't doubt that McDonalds is capable of coming up with yet another artery-clogging masterpiece, and I don't question that people will flock to go and buy it. That still doesn't convince me that they will produce something of QUALITY, because I KNOW that they will not.

Another sentence:

"If you can't beat them, join them"

Um, no. I'd rather not. In fact, I'd rather stop using computers altogether than have to start using windows again. Not even for games. But then again I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that quote.

[Parcival]

Originally posted by infiniphunk
But then again I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that quote.

I just felt like being ironic. That's why I made the ;) at the end. And the three :eek: signal that the thought is as scary to myself as to you.

I don't know why, but Sepero's sentence made that Looney Toons episode pop up in front of my inner eye where Yosemite Sam and Bugs Bunny play Civil War and the final screen displays Sam (the Southern rebel who lost) and Bugs Bunny walk away together and it says "If you can't beat them, join them".

Nevertheless, I think there is some truth in this statement. Maybe one day Microsoft will join the Free Software Movement (and announce it as big break-through, of course), or it may push Linux back into insignificance. If the second happened to be the case, it would be smart to hire at Microsoft and carry the free software philosophy directly into their headquarters. If you can't make them change from the outside, make them change from the inside. Let's face it: virtually every computer science graduate today hears about free software; and today's graduates are tomorrow's MS software writers. The key question is how long Microsoft will be able to have its developers give up their rights on their code in the face of legal restrictions and benefits available.

I think if Microsoft produced free operating systems and software, I would actually be proud to work for them.

[infiniphunk]

I just dread the thought of M$oft becoming open-source and even (I shudder at the thought) of producing a linux distro. There was the story on slashdot about Linus Torvalds working for Bill Gates in 2008....HORRIBLE. Imagine what would happen, the masses would instantly forget Debian, Slackware, Gentoo...etc, and flock to M$linux, because there's a precedent to buy software from them. Perhaps they would adopt a business model like Redhat, where they charge you for support, but it would still be crappy M$ support. I really don't think it will ever happen.
I think you're much better off questing for your Grail, Parcival; I just can't see Microsoft becoming a good-guy any time soon. Same goes for Coca-Cola, Shell, McDonalds, Disney, Wal-Mart....These are giant corporations bent on making the highest profit possible, reagardless of the cost.

[Parcival]

Originally posted by infiniphunk
I think you're much better off questing for your Grail, Parcival; I just can't see Microsoft becoming a good-guy any time soon. Same goes for Coca-Cola, Shell, McDonalds, Disney, Wal-Mart....These are giant corporations bent on making the highest profit possible, reagardless of the cost.

I completely agree with you. However, IF Microsoft ever happened to go open source I figure they wouldn't produce their own Linux distro, but go for an opensource Windows. From my point of view this would be a winning strategy because
[list=a]
they already have a huge customer segment for Windows,
going opensource would probably close many security flaws,
they would find many enthusiasts willing to spend their time developping
[/list=a]

However, even if Microsoft decided to go the Unix/Linux way, I wouldn't have nightmares, because then they would be playing on our turf, and we play the game on that turf extremely well.

[Sepero]

d. Another way to supress GNU licenses and the true meaning of Free Software.

Gee... don't all of these things remind you of another OS that was about to bite the dust?? SunMS (micro systems)

[enshum]

"going opensource would probably close many security flaws," Most likely not it is not in Microsfts best interests to make windows secure. They would lose to much money. They are in the business of selling licenses etc. you need one to do business with them. having a leaky tiki keeps the door open to sell sell sell profits profits profits. You cannot even use Windows for toilet paper without the proper lic. Norton, Mcaffee, Intel, Dell everybody pays to do business with Microsft.

[DrLZRDMN]

Originally posted by Parcival
I don't know why, but Sepero's sentence made that Looney Toons episode pop up in front of my inner eye where Yosemite Sam and Bugs Bunny play Civil War and the final screen displays Sam (the Southern rebel who lost) and Bugs Bunny walk away together and it says "If you can't beat them, join them".

Nevertheless, I think there is some truth in this statement. Maybe one day Microsoft will join the Free Software Movement (and announce it as big break-through, of course), or it may push Linux back into insignificance.
It probobly meant that wars cannot be won and that the nation must join, rather than an admitance of defeat by either side.

I could imagine M$ going the way of sun in a while, not 2008 but maybe 2010 IF longhorn is released in 06 which I doubt. They proboly want to use that new FS for it's potentials as a trecherous platform. The new FS wont allow them to ship by 06. If they do go with the new FS have doubts of them going open at all. There are two potential long horns.

LH1:
New FS
Loads of Eyecandy
rediculus specs
DRM'd out the wazoo
"trusted" computing platform
completely different from other windows os's
comes out on the same day as dnf

LH2:
tweaked fs
more eyecandy (possibly on par with KDE's offerings as of now)
comes out in 06-07
semi-rediculus specs
DRM'd
very similar to XP
has 64 bit compatability though it may be hacked

The third possible outcome is that they come out with something decent, though still overpriced and anti consumer (rumors are that it might not suck as much in the portability, bloat, and security departments).

Some predict something great, thats open dosent suck etc. This may happen eventualy but not on the next release.

With that said there should be plenty of time for GNU to catach up to the point of actual competition. I don't mean 50/50 I mean a number of users buying GNU/Linux desktop systems or a popularity in commercial desktop distros. If that happens then MS will stay the same for one iteration and than make something good(TM) and then open it just a little.


Although I could be completely wrong.

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by infiniphunk
I just can't see Microsoft becoming a good-guy any time soon. While I must point out that I agree with you on this, it would be rash to presume that they will never become a good guy.

Because after all, IBM did it. IBM used to be the Great Devil Monopolist, trying to lock customers into its (often, but not always, inferior) hardware/OS combo mainframes (and sometimes, perhaps even workstations). But eventually they saw the light, and now they end up contributing a lot of code to Linux (both the kernel, and some userspace stuff, like NGPT). Some of their code gets accepted, some of it doesn't, just like everybody else. They also distribute Linux on some of their hardware now.

This reportedly still flabbergasts some older hackers, because they couldn't ever see IBM stopping what it was doing. (I say "reportedly" because I am not nearly old enough to be one of them, so I have no firsthand experience.)

[enshum]

"because they couldn't ever see IBM stopping what it was doing. (I say "reportedly" because I am not nearly old enough to be one of them," So maybe when you finally have a enough money in reserve to buy all the other top 100 companies you can say we have enough money, now on to the next level. And there actually is a next level! Hmmmm.

[bwkaz]

Uhh, what?

I guess I don't get what you're trying to say, or something.

I'm just saying "never rule anything out".

[cybertron]

Originally posted by bwkaz
Uhh, what?

I guess I don't get what you're trying to say, or something.
Ditto.:)

I hope IBM is the good guys now because I'm trying to get an internship that would potentially lead to a full-time job with them.;)

[Sepero]

Originally posted by bwkaz
Uhh, what?

I guess I don't get what you're trying to say, or something.What he's saying is that the next level is there! Hmmmm. I'm bet when a have a enough money in reserve to buy a top 100 company or three, then the level will surely increase! Hmmmm. But I wonder if there is more than one level?


Hmmmmmm. :p


/me helps enshum back to the "only have one linux distro" thread

[enshum]

IBM has satisfied there need for money and power now they can be useful to the community!

[Parcival]

Originally posted by enshum
IBM has satisfied there need for money and power now they can be useful to the community!

I disagree. Corporations are always hungry for money, that's why they come into existence, after all.
The sole difference is that IBM has realized being useful to the community will give them an advantage, Microsoft hasn't. The basic question behind all my posts in this thread is me pondering if

(a) Microsoft will ever realize this advantage, and
(b) how successful they will be with whatever decision they're going to end up with.

[enshum]

"Corporations are always hungry for money," Not all are motivated the same way. You might say IBM is well fed and mannered no longer looking to tear everything apart that gets in its way. I doubt Microsoft will ever reach this level.

[Sepero]

I'm sorry enshum, but I have to disagree. Corporations live by money, and they die by money. Without money, there would be no corporation.

Though, I think the thing that IBM sees is, "Linux=Big Money"(or at least "bigger money"). So long as MS is a monopoly, IBM will always be a servant to MS(just like everyone else). IBM escaping servitude, and becoming free allows it to have profits limited only by itself.

Thus, Linux=freedom=unlimited profits

[bwkaz]

Ah, OK, I think I see what you're saying now, enshum.

But I also disagree. ;) IBM didn't start distributing and releasing source for Linux right after it had made a ton of money. Now, it had made a lot of money, but IBM as a company really faded out of view in the early 1990s, after a few bad decisions and a bit of bad strategy. And, oh yeah, a run-in with Microsoft.

I suspect that they went through a pretty hard time financially at that point, because they pretty much sat on their hands for almost the next decade. They didn't start releasing and supporting Linux until they reinvented themselves "as a services company" in the late 1990s:

http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/I/IBM.html

[irlandes]

quite a few years ago, IBM had a monopoly even worse than MS has today. They even required customers to buy their printer paper from them.

There was a major lawsuit, and the court tuled to force customers to buy everything from them was an illegal monopoly. IBM was ordered to stop that.

[CoffeeMan]

I think that Windows releases are like a fibonacci sequence, each new release is a sum of the two previous releases, thus windows keeps getting exponentially more and more bloated. Longhorn will suck, prove me wrong.

[enshum]

"prove me wrong." It would be much easier to prove you right!

[CoffeeMan]

"prove me wrong." It would be much easier to prove you right! Thank you!

[timothykaine]

Lengthy threads about MS software on a Linux site... does anyone else here feel like they're "spying on the enemy"?

[soulestream]

IBM decision to go open source was complety money driven. they are attacking MS the only way they can. They can't go out and develop an OS of their own (os/2). I think this was there little f/u to MS. IBM can provide services without MS and the help take money away from Billy. MS$ screwed IBM every chance they got. os2 and DOS. I say hurray for IBM.



soule

[Sepero]

Originally posted by CoffeeMan
I think that Windows releases are like a fibonacci sequence, each new release is a sum of the two previous releases, thus windows keeps getting exponentially more and more bloated. Longhorn will suck, prove me wrong. Longhorn might not be great, but I seriously doubt it will suck. I think some of the people on this forum are fooling themselves if they think MS isn't going to be shifting into high-gear from here on out. They have enough $$$ reserves to create a Truely Excellent OS. (Windows TE ;))

Say it... I know you want to... go ahead, say it!

<voice>
"Why the HELL would M$ try to create an excellent OS?!?!"


Thank you Mr. Announcer.
The reason is simple, all you have to do is ask yourself why they didn't start sooner... The answer is, in recent years, there has been virtually NO competition. When there's no one to fight, you can get lazy. It doesn't matter if your code sucks because you've got contracts and vendor-lockin.

Things are different now. MS has a REAL competitor, and they KNOW IT. They aren't just sitting on their rears anymore. They are trying to think of everyway they can to stop Free Software. Including(but not limited to) patents, more contracts, a new filesystem, and yes... a better secured OS.

Seriously, it almost pains me to have to say all of this, but I have to be logical about the whole thing. I really would like to agree with you. I wish I could believe it to be another flop, but no, I can't. If only to be on the safe side.

Hope for the best. Expect the worst.

[Icarus]

As long as they continue to use ActiveX and allow javaVM's to work out of a sandbox...Windows will always have problems

You can not cover up fundimental design flaws with a fancy GUI...crap is still crap no matter how much suger you put on the outside ;)