Thinking About Testing a SuperUpgrade!

[Sepero]

Ok, every one knows that when it comes to upgrading from one OS version to the next, none are as slick as Debian. But why just accept that? I want to put it to the Ultimate Test. How well do you think Debian can "apt-get dist-upgrade" from version, say... 1.3 to 3.0?!


Here's the history of Debian releases:
# 3.1 -- sarge, started for "freeze" in July of 2004
# 3.0 -- woody, July 19, 2002
# 2.2 -- potato, August 15, 2000
# 2.1 -- slink, March 9, 1999
# 2.0 -- hamm, July 24, 1998
# 1.3 -- bo, June 2, 1997
# 1.2 -- rex, December 12, 1996
# 1.1 -- buzz, June 17, 1996

Gimme some feedback on this. What do you think I should try?

[bsm2001]

back up and go for it.:D

worth a shot I think.

[bburton]

I think the hardware will be more so the deciding factor in the success of this experiment than the software.

Are you going to use a new computer for this or an older computer?

[Sepero]

Ahh, I've found out that apt-get wasn't included until the release of Slink in '98! I may have to use a version of apt-get that is newer than the actual distro, depending on how far back I go. (think it'll werk?)

Oh, and I plan to try this on a AMD 700Mhz box with almost 400mb Ram. I do have an old Pentium 333Mhz, but it's out of commission and would be a hassle to setup.

[davisfactor]

It would be a rather interesting test. Are you doing this just for fun?

[Sepero]

Originally posted by davisfactor
Are you doing this just for fun? I would like to think of it as purely scientific. ;)

Perhaps I could log the whole thing...
:confused:

[Sepero]

Ok, after doing a little research, I've found that every version older than Bo must be compiled from source. So ok, I went to install Bo:# debootstrap bo /mnt/hda7 http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive/
E: No such script: /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/bo

Doh! I didn't know a script would be required. Suprisingly though, it appears that there are scripts that will let me go all the way back to Slink.

Anyone know where I can download an install CD for Bo (or older)?

[Sepero]

Ok, I'm reading over the install.txt of Bo at:
http://debian.crosslink.net/debian-archive/dists/Debian-1.3.1/main/disks-i386/current/install.txt

"You must have at least 4MB of RAM and 40MB of hard disk."
(And for the "Full" install, a whopping 300mb!)
Times were so much simpler then... :D

[Sepero]

Ok, I've downloaded the Bo (Peep) base (http://debian.crosslink.net/debian-archive/dists/Debian-1.3.1/main/disks-i386/current/base1_3.tgz).

From reading the install.txt, it appears that before `apt-get`, `dselect` performed the job of solving deps and auto downloading. I have bad memories of that tool when first getting into Debian. :D

I'll be doing the actual upgrade all through a `chroot`. So I'll be kind-of cheating because I won't be using the old linux kernel, but the rest of the system is standard Bo.root@blue:~# mv /home/sepero/base1_3.tgz /mnt/hda7
root@blue:~# cd /mnt/hda7
root@blue:/mnt/hda7# tar -xzf base1_3.tgz
root@blue:/mnt/hda7# ls
base1_3.tgz boot dev floppy initrd lost+found proc sbin usr
bin cdrom etc home lib mnt root tmp var

It's looks like I'm ready to rock-n-roll!!!
Is the system gonna become a beautiful swan, or an ugly vomiting duckling? If you haven't subscribed to this thread, now's the time.

[Sepero]

Ok, I'm having some difficulty with dselect, and the old dselect webpages are no longer available.

When trying to update the "ftp access", I get the message:
logname: no login name


Then it pretty much freezes. I think I'll try editing the dselect config files directly(if I can find them). Anyone got other ideas? (Maybe I should contact RMS about this one ;))

[Sepero]

It appears that with the message:
logname: no login name

It was trying to connect to the old debian servers, I think... Anyway, when I tried to connect with no internet, I got a whole page of options.logname: no login name
hostname: Host name lookup failure

You must supply an ftp site, use of passive mode, username, password,
path to the debian directory,list of distributions you are interested
in and place to download the binary package files to (relative to
/var/lib/dpkg/methods/ftp).

Eg: ftp site: ftp.debian.org
passive: y
username: anonymous
password: @
ftp dir: /debian
distributions: stable non-free contrib
download dir: debian

Enter ftp site []: ftp.debian.org

Use passive mode [y]:

Enter username [anonymous]:
If you are using anonymous ftp to retrieve files, enter your email
address for use as a password. Otherwise enter "?" and dpkg-ftp will
prompt you each time.

Enter password [@]: fake@mail.com

Enter debian directory [/debian]:

Note: order here is important. Package files are scanned in order so
later distributions will override earlier ones.

So put stable before unstable.

Enter space seperated list of distributions to get
[stable non-free contrib]:

Enter directory to download binary package files to
(relative to /var/lib/dpkg/methods/ftp/)
[debian]:

Using FTP to check directories...(stop with ^C)
Connecting to ftp.debian.org...
Login as anonymous...
Setting transfer mode to binary...
Cd to /debian...

Checking stable/binary-i386...
Warning: Could not find a Packages file in stable/binary-i386
This may not be a problem if the directory is a symbolic link
Checking non-free/binary-i386...
Warning: Could not find a Packages file in non-free/binary-i386
This may not be a problem if the directory is a symbolic link
Checking contrib/binary-i386...
Warning: Could not find a Packages file in contrib/binary-i386
This may not be a problem if the directory is a symbolic link
Closing ftp connection...
Press return to continue

It obviously didn't connect correctly. After a couple trial-n-errors, I figured out what to put in:
Enter ftp site [ftp.us.debian.org]:
Use passive mode [y]:
Enter username [anonymous]:
Enter password [fake@mail.com]:
Enter debian directory [/debian/dists/stable]:
Enter space seperated list of distributions to get
[main non-free contrib]:

And BINGO!Connecting to ftp.us.debian.org...
Login as anonymous...
Setting transfer mode to binary...
Cd to /debian/dists/stable...
Checking main/binary-i386...
Checking non-free/binary-i386...
Checking contrib/binary-i386...
Closing ftp connection...


Now to update the packages:It is a good idea to clear the available list of old packages.
However if you have only downloaded a Package files from non-main
distributions you might not want to do this.

Do you want to clear available list [y]:
Updating available packages info, using Packages.main.
Information about 8276 package(s) was updated.
Updating available packages info, using Packages.non-free.
Information about 273 package(s) was updated.
Updating available packages info, using Packages.contrib.
Information about 203 package(s) was updated.


HAHA! It shouldn't be long now!!
(Actually it's about a 50mb download and I'm on dialup. Catch you guys tomorrow. HAHA!) :D

[tlyons]

Originally posted by Sepero
IHAHA! It shouldn't be long now!!
(Actually it's about a 50mb download and I'm on dialup. Catch you guys tomorrow. HAHA!) :D

You're either incredibly brave, or certifiably looney.

Either way, I like it. :D

<subscription on>

- T.

[deathadder]

This should be fun :cool:

[psi42]

Somehow I get the feeling I'm going to enjoy this thread...

[Sepero]

Ok guys, I can't give you the whole text, but I was shafted. After running the install, for some reason it couldn't download the files. Here's clipped parts:Processing status file...

Processing Package files...
main...
non-free...
contrib...


Constructing list of files to get...
want: pool/main/b/bind9/bind9-host_9.2.1-2.woody.2_i386.deb (77k)
want: pool/main/n/newt/whiptail_0.50.17-9.6_i386.deb (18k)
want: pool/main/g/gcc-defaults/cpp_2.95.4-14_i386.deb (4k)
want: pool/main/a/apt/apt-utils_0.5.4_i386.deb (169k)
...
<clip>
...

Approximate total space required: 46981k
Available space in debian: 940676k
Do you want to select the files to get [n]:

Do you want to download the required files [y]:
Downloading files... use ^C to stop
Connecting to ftp.us.debian.org...
Login as anonymous...
Setting transfer mode to binary...
Cd to /debian/dists/stable...
getting: pool/main/p/procmail/procmail_3.22-5_i386.deb (135852)
pool/main/p/procmail/procmail_3.22-5_i386.deb: No such file or directory.

getting: pool/main/s/sox/sox_12.17.3-4woody2_i386.deb (241232)
pool/main/s/sox/sox_12.17.3-4woody2_i386.deb: No such file or directory.

getting: pool/main/p/perl/libperl5.6_5.6.1-8.7_i386.deb (347984)
pool/main/p/perl/libperl5.6_5.6.1-8.7_i386.deb: No such file or directory.
...
<clip>

What this means is that it can't find the files. It is obvious that directory structure has had changes since Bo was released. Dselect is confused and doesn't really know where the files are(Almost as confused as I was when trying to use dselect;)). In order to relsolve this, it appears that I'm going to have to download the files manually...

AHA! Unless! I can get apt-get installed! Which I think I shall do right now! :D

[Sepero]

/me screws head on correctly

Luckily, I haven't finished downloading all the dependancies for apt yet. I should probably update dpkg(the base package manager) first. ;)

/me goes back to get dpkg and it's deps

[Sepero]

Ever try to fit a round peg into a square hole?...

I had to "force" a couple packages to get dpkg installed. :D

Ok, I was gonna post a lot of the stdout, but I don't think you want to see all that garbage. And believe me, after all the trial-and-error(deps!), there was a LOT of garbage. Essentially, here are the commands I had to run(in order):
dpkg -r timezone
mkdir /etc/rcS.d
dpkg --force-conflicts -i libc6_2.2.5-11.8_i386.deb
dpkg -i libncurses5_5.2.20020112a-7_i386.deb
dpkg -i libstdc++2.10-glibc2.2_2.95.4-11woody1_i386.deb
dpkg -i --force-conflicts sysvinit_2.84-2woody1_i386.deb
dpkg -i dpkg_1.9.21_i386.deb
dpkg -i apt_0.5.4_i386.deb
apt-get update

#change all packages on "hold" to "install"
dpkg --get-selections | sed 's/hold/install/' > selections.txt
dpkg --set-selections < selections.txt
blue# apt-get -f dist-upgrade
Reading Package Lists...
Building Dependency Tree...
Correcting dependencies... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
getty libgdbm1
The following NEW packages will be installed:
console-common debconf ifupdown ipchains klogd libcap1 libdb2 libdb3
libgdbmg1 libnewt-utf8-0 libpam-modules libpam-runtime libpam0g libpcap0
libpopt0 libwrap0 net-tools netkit-inetd netkit-ping perl perl-base
perl-modules slang1 slang1a-utf8 tcpd whiptail-utf8
The following packages have been kept back
dpkg-ftp
WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed
This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
getty
44 packages upgraded, 26 newly installed, 2 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
1 packages not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 12.7MB of archives. After unpacking 29.2MB will be used.
You are about to do something potentially harmful
To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'
?] Yes, do as I say!
Get:1 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main mount 2.11n-7 [99.3kB]
Get:2 http://security.debian.org stable/updates/main perl-base 5.6.1-8.8 [497kB]
Get:3 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main slang1 1.4.4-7.2 [181kB]
...
<clipped>

[Sepero]

WOW, it exploded it my face!dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of perl:
perl depends on libdb2 (>= 2:2.7.7.0-7); however:
Package libdb2 is not installed.
perl depends on libgdbmg1; however:
Package libgdbmg1 is not installed.
dpkg: error processing perl (--configure):
dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of perl-modules:
perl-modules depends on perl (>= 5.6.1-1); however:
Package perl is not configured yet.
...
<clipped>
dpkg: error processing sysvinit (--configure):
dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
Setting up debconf (1.0.32) ...
Ambiguous call resolved as CORE::sysread(), qualify as such or use & at /usr/lib
/perl5/IO/Handle.pm line 424.
Ambiguous call resolved as CORE::write(), qualify as such or use & at /usr/lib/p
erl5/IO/Handle.pm line 534.
Ambiguous call resolved as CORE::write(), qualify as such or use & at /usr/lib/p
erl5/IO/Handle.pm line 537.
DynaLoader object version 1.04 does not match $DynaLoader::VERSION 1.00 at /usr/
lib/perl5/DynaLoader.pm line 58.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/lib/perl5/IO/Handle.pm line 239.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1/IO/Seekable.pm line 9.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1/IO/Seekable.pm line 9.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1/IO/File.pm line 11.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/lib/perl/5.6.1/IO/File.pm line 11.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl/5.6.1/FileHandle.pm line 9.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Template.pm line 6.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Template.pm line 6.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Question.pm line 6.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Question.pm line 6.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Config.pm line 5.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Config.pm line 5.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Log.pm line 8.
...
<clipped>
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Config.pm line 5.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Config.pm line 5.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Log.pm line 8.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Db.pm line 5.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/perl5/Debconf/Db.pm line 5.
Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/debconf/fix_db.pl line 3.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/debconf/fix_db.pl line 3.

dpkg: error processing debconf (--configure):
subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 255
Errors were encountered while processing:
perl
perl-modules
sysvinit
debconf

Me thinks I shouldn't have forced those first couple packages... :confused:

[tlyons]

Originally posted by Sepero
WOW, it exploded it my face! Me thinks I shouldn't have forced those first couple packages... :confused:

"Yes, do as I say!" :D

Even if the experiment is a failure, it was still fun to watch blow up. :cool:

- T.

[Sepero]

I do believe the system is(for the most part) unrecoverable! :eek:


I hope you have enjoyed this rendition of "Debian Gone Insane".

Although, instead of thinking the whole experiment was a complete failure, I'd like to think we can learn something from all this... Ummm, don't do dumb stuff. :p

Thank you,
Sepero