any recent college grads find a job yet?

[fatTrav]

This is so /dev/null...

I'm just curious if any fellow computer science graduates in the last year or so have managed to find employment. Obviously I haven't or I'd not start this thread.

I live in the St. Louis area and have gotten 2 interviews out of about 82 applications/resumes sent out in online and print form. [One such interview was at a technology staffing company where I was told that my particpiation in a few open source projects (not small ones either but one in particular that a few Universities have thrown some serious $ at) does not count as actual experience. Even though I explained what specifically I did and how it did not differ at all to the job I was in her office trying to get, other than one gave me a paycheck and one didn't.]

Again, I'm just curious as to how other new graduates are fairing in the job market.

[tmason]

I graduated with a bachelor's degree in computer information systems, and got a job as a cashier at the Home Depot. My parents were probably less than completely happy with that move! Hee hee!

But I just took it easy and worked second shift and slept nice and comfortably and long. I had the feeling that one day a job would come to me out of nowhere and I need not look; I just knew.

Sure enough, my neighbor from two houses down (who I never actually met) comes through my line at HD at we somehow got on the topic of jobs. I told her about my background and college and what not, and she basically offered me a job right then.

So now I've been here a month. I'm a technician working at a college, dealing with servers and electronic door access and remote camera systems and lots of other stuff. Also, all the food is free. It's just about the best job situation I could ask for.

I didn't fill out applications or worry about it. I just let it come. Moral of the story, be true to yourself, and everything works out!

[MMYoung]

Well, after 23 years of employment (the last 4 of which was as in Computer Support) the company I worked for said I was no longer needed and let me go (two years ago now). The company recently shut the doors completely and now everybody is out of work. Luckily I'm eligible for some gubmnet programs that pay for my schoolin', and pay my unemployment while I go, as long as I participate in one of their "approved training programs". Just so happens one of them was Computer Information Systems. They wouldn't approve a "full-fledged" Associates Degree but rather only approved the "Associates of Applied Science" Degree couse so I 'jined up (after putting it off for a year) and am now about half-way through my degree couse. Should be graduating in December of this year.

When I get my degree I figure I'll be able to use it, and $1.50, to buy a cup of coffee at the local coffee shop. Not much around my "neck of the woods" (Northeastern Arkansas) that will provide much employment opportunities. Most of the people that I've talked to, that are in this type degree course, are getting their jobs at schools/learning institutions and for the gubment and they're having to move to do that. Don't pay much but it's a job. Matter of fact the way the IT/IS jobs are "flying" overseas right now I figure the gubment is about the only ones hiring and they ain't hiring much.

Later,
MMYoung

[hard candy]

and got a job as a cashier at the Home Depot.

At least you were able to keep up with latest "hardware". :)

[tmason]

Their workstations were called "POS workstations". Supposed to mean point of sale. The registers were real POS'es for sure.

EDIT: I just got the joke. See what happens when you have to go to work for 8:00? :o

[Hayl]

i quite my last IT job because of major illegal crap the company was doing... shortly after that, the directors, vps, president all quit and it died/got bought out/split up.

right around then is when it started to get really bad to get IT jobs in Calgary (and elsewhere). (India, etc. -- as everyone already knows)

then my headhunter quit because he couldn't place anyone for approximately a year and a half.

so i took a few years off, hung out, and decided to do something entirely different.

next year i will be in school full time... at the moment i am just taking 1 course and in the winter session, i will likely take two.

i am starting off with the intentions of doing a degree in french, but i will likely evolve that into more than one language and/or linguistics or speech pathology.

[hard candy]

I've got two jobs, both are in healthcare. I have an RN degree and some experience so finding jobs are fairly easy. But what I have noticed, is that the healthcare industry is becoming more "electronic"- electronic charting, secure remote access from satellite offices and clinics, electronic order systems and the billing databases that will always need upgrading and maintenance.
Here at the Medical College of Georgia, they had to develop an inhouse order entry system since the available ones on the market were not exactly what the IT people here needed. It's called Ordercomm and is impressive. Easy to use and easy to maintain. They said they had plans to market it.
But the point I'm trying to make is that maybe concentrate on healthcare IT and you may have better results. And it's not something you can ship overseas since the patient data is under strict protection by federal law, so the info has to stay here and be maintained.

[MMYoung]

Originally posted by hard candy
I've got two jobs, both are in healthcare. I have an RN degree and some experience so finding jobs are fairly easy.
The healthcare field was what I origianlly wanted to get into, but they didn't offer it as part of the "approved training courses". In other words, I could've taken the course but I wouldn't have gotten any of the benefits, i.e. books, tuition paid and a weekly paycheck. So I opted for the CIS degree. Some of the folks who used to work where I did are now taking "office technology" because most of the "required's" for it and nursing are the same and they intend to switch when their benefits run out.

Later,
MMYoung

[rbrimhall]

Well, I'm not a CS grad but I can give tell you it took about 4 months for me to find a non-contract based-job... but with a degree in Urban Anthropology I expected as much... though in the end it turned out to not only be what I knew but who I knew as well... of course the HR department threw out my resume (even though I was already working the job as a temp) b/c they had never heard of anthropology... which I found kind of funny... all's good now though.

[bosox79]

I graduated last December with a degree in liberal arts and I have been looking for a job since I started working on a 2nd degree in criminal justice and I am hopping this will help me land a desk job of some type. :(

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by tmason
Sure enough, my neighbor from two houses down (who I never actually met) comes through my line at HD at we somehow got on the topic of jobs. I told her about my background and college and what not, and she basically offered me a job right then.

wow, you lucked out. i wish we all had such luck;)
as for myself, i've been in contact with my local armed forces recruiter (all branches actually) and am in the beginning process of trying to get accepted to OCS. who knows how this will turn out, getting a civilian job would certainly kill my hopes of joining up, no offense to any vets past or present.

[tmason]

I don't mean to sound too cliched or unneccesarily philosophical, but you can only call something luck so many times.

Be true to yourself, and everything will work out. That's the way it is. That realization has turned my life around.

;)

[Jata]

I graduated in June and have been looking since then. I must have sent off like twenty applications so far and have only had one interview. What is really getting to me is that you don't even get a rejection letter, you don't get any response unless you get an interview. I thought getting the degree would be the hard part, how naive am I!

[cybertron]

Originally posted by hard candy
But the point I'm trying to make is that maybe concentrate on healthcare IT and you may have better results. And it's not something you can ship overseas since the patient data is under strict protection by federal law, so the info has to stay here and be maintained.

Are you sure you don't live in Wisconsin? That's exactly the same kind of thing that my Grandpa's been telling me for two years now.:) It's definitely something I'll have to look into if I have trouble finding a job after graduation. Gotta keep up the family tradition of medical work (Grandpa, Grandma, two Aunts and an Uncle are all doctors/nurses).;)

[carbon-12]

:eek:
/me afraid

I'm in my last year of HS and was planning on going into Computer Engineering. Maybe time to rethink that. :(

Bah this sucks :mad:

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by carbon-12
:eek:
/me afraid

I'm in my last year of HS and was planning on going into Computer Engineering. Maybe time to rethink that. :(

Bah this sucks :mad:

well i'd not necessarily say that...but it is VERY competitive. As someone who has been scouring the want-ads for the better part of a year, I will say that 90% of all computer-related jobs seem to be networking, help desk, or some job where you have to be physically on-site to be able to perform it (replace faulty hardware, that kind of thing)... if it can be outsourced, it will be in the Tech industry. Programming jobs, at least in my area (central/southern illinois, and the St. Louis area) are hard to find. If you have the flexibility to re-locate anywhere, you will be in a better position than someone like me who can't relocate for at least a year.

[bburton]

Originally posted by carbon-12
:eek:
/me afraid

I'm in my last year of HS and was planning on going into Computer Engineering. Maybe time to rethink that. :(

Bah this sucks :mad:

I think that a lot of people (Americans) plan on going to college and doing Computer Science/Engineering, EE, etc; then automagically a great job will fall into their lap.

From my limited experience this is not the case. It may have been more so in the past. Maybe it's just beat into our heads, I know it was beat into mine; teachers, parents, friends, etc. They all told me: "Go to college, get a good job (>$50,000k/year); don't and get a so-so job (<$30,000/year)." Like it was automatic or something. Let me tell you, it's not. Going to college doesn't guarentee you anything. You might not get a job at all.

My personal path led me to the US AirForce directly after highschool, serving a 4 year enlistment I will fullfill in one year's time. The pay is decent, E-4 pays ~$28,000/year (basic pay + housing/food allotments), that's not including special pays such as flight pay, which I also receive. You also get good training (and some college credit for it), chances to work with cool equipment, get to go neat and exciting places (well some maybe not so neat ;) ), and a chance to grow up and figure out a plan (damn listen I sound like a recruiter).

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything here. There are negative points to military service too. I still plan to go to college using my GI Bill after my commitment is up. I also plan to do ROTC and return to the AF as an officer (2x the pay, 10x the respect).

The only reason I'm saying this is because when I was in highschool, no one really came to me and told me about the military, or gave it a fair shake so to speak. I was so inundated with college, college, college. My point is, college isn't the ONLY path, there are a lot of opportunities out there. I've learned in the past three years that the world isn't made up entirely of x86 PCs and Windows XP. There's more stuff out there, more paths than I ever would have dreamed.

[DimGR]

Originally posted by bburton
I think that a lot of people (Americans) plan on going to college and doing Computer Science/Engineering, EE, etc; then automagically a great job will fall into their lap.

From my limited experience this is not the case. It may have been more so in the past. Maybe it's just beat into our heads, I know it was beat into mine; teachers, parents, friends, etc. They all told me: "Go to college, get a good job (>$50,000k/year); don't and get a so-so job (<$30,000/year)." Like it was automatic or something. Let me tell you, it's not. Going to college doesn't guarentee you anything. You might not get a job at all.

My personal path led me to the US AirForce directly after highschool, serving a 4 year enlistment I will fullfill in one year's time. The pay is decent, E-4 pays ~$28,000/year (basic pay + housing/food allotments), that's not including special pays such as flight pay, which I also receive. You also get good training (and some college credit for it), chances to work with cool equipment, get to go neat and exciting places (well some maybe not so neat ;) ), and a chance to grow up and figure out a plan (damn listen I sound like a recruiter).

I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything here. There are negative points to military service too. I still plan to go to college using my GI Bill after my commitment is up. I also plan to do ROTC and return to the AF as an officer (2x the pay, 10x the respect).

The only reason I'm saying this is because when I was in highschool, no one really came to me and told me about the military, or gave it a fair shake so to speak. I was so inundated with college, college, college. My point is, college isn't the ONLY path, there are a lot of opportunities out there. I've learned in the past three years that the world isn't made up entirely of x86 PCs and Windows XP. There's more stuff out there, more paths than I ever would have dreamed.



excellent point !!!

[Sepero]

Originally posted by hard candy
At least you were able to keep up with latest "hardware". :) :p

[dboyer]

Originally posted by carbon-12
:eek:
/me afraid

I'm in my last year of HS and was planning on going into Computer Engineering. Maybe time to rethink that. :(

Bah this sucks :mad:

It might look bad, but I think it can be done if you work hard. Im on my second year as a EE/CS/ECE major (my uni is currently trying to iron out a computer engineering degree, so I'm sort of in limbo taking EE-digital and CS classes).

I work a lot in the student rocket lab (where they build rockets... im just a solder monkey at this point), and talk to a lot of the grad students in there (CS, ME, EE, etc). And the CS grads all say the same thing: don't do straight CS. Its great to be able to say "I can program" but its better to say "I can do XXXXX, PLUS I can program."

IMHO, it seems to me that if you work hard (not only in class, but on out of class stuff) to really /learn/ your field, offers and opportunities will come your way.

*shrug* I guess I'll find out in 2-3 years, huh?

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by dboyer
It might look bad, but I think it can be done if you work hard. Im on my second year as a EE/CS/ECE major (my uni is currently trying to iron out a computer engineering degree, so I'm sort of in limbo taking EE-digital and CS classes).

I work a lot in the student rocket lab (where they build rockets... im just a solder monkey at this point), and talk to a lot of the grad students in there (CS, ME, EE, etc). And the CS grads all say the same thing: don't do straight CS. Its great to be able to say "I can program" but its better to say "I can do XXXXX, PLUS I can program."

IMHO, it seems to me that if you work hard (not only in class, but on out of class stuff) to really /learn/ your field, offers and opportunities will come your way.

*shrug* I guess I'll find out in 2-3 years, huh?

I come from the other side of the fence to that. Around here, EVERYBODY that has a networking job is clinging to it like the ship is sinking (might be, for all I know). Everything I see in the papers says "SENIOR" this, or "Spiffy Admin Guy III". All of which say 3-4 year degree, and then 3-4 years experience required. If there's not that, around here, people are needing senior Java programmers, or database guys.

But yeah, I agree. Learn some other skill, and at least minor in CompEng or CompSci.

[nabetse]

tmason, I'm very happy that things worked out for you. I, however, wonder what you mean by being "true to yourself". Why are you so confident that things will work out if you do so? (This is NOT an attempt to flame. I am simply seeking your opinion.)

I graduated one and a half years ago with a bachelors degree in mechnical engineering. I too thought it would lead somewhere but it didn't--at least until last month. I searched to no avail until I was picked up by my father's company as a "product engineer" (yes, the position is not well defined). Things have been good since I've started working for my dad's company, but it's certainly not the path that I wished to take. I would be more of a businessman [shudder] rather than an engineer. For now, I will do my best to learn and contribute to my best capacity.

I have personally found that the job market for technical work is VERY competative. In order to find work, you would likely need to be able to offer something that most people can't. For example: job experience DIRECTLY related to your field, some sort of honors program, leadership in special societies, special achievements, exceptional academic performance, etc. My friends who have found jobs in thier fields of study have been able to offer the above mentioned experiences. If you're still in school, take the opportunity to achieve as much as you can--that is if you intend to go into your field of study. It will make finding a job much easier.

[Daedrus]

One thing that I will recommend to anyone looking for a job, "Follow Up." Most of the positions that I have held (from age 16 on) were the result of persistance. Also, be willing to move almost anywhere for a job. You may not like Montana, but if you have no experience and there is a company that wants you there, go. You can always move later with more experience.

[tmason]

Thanks, nabetse.

In my opinion, life is all about fulfillment. There are some things that I find captivating and fulfilling, and I pursue those things as I feel like it. I follow my intuition and do what I feel "good" with, and avoid what I don't feel good with.

I realized that I can do what someone else wants, or what "the world" or society or religion says that I should, but that if life is a gift to be enjoyed, then the best thing I can do is to do what I think and feel I should do.

I know that things will work out for me. It's like asking how you know if you're in love, or if you're happy. You just know. It's not a belief. It's just a "knowing" that I have, which came about through my own spiritual growth.

I think that most people go through life hoping or trying to make things work out. They look at it principally from a material standpoint. My feeling is that when things are sorted out spiritually, everything else will follow. It's similar to what Lao Tzu wrote in the Tao te Ching when he spoke of the concept called "we-wei", which I would describe as results without action. Lao Tzu says "Be true to yourself, and all will go well with you."

Something similar is written in the bible. There is a verse that talks about not taking a thought about what you will wear or what you will eat, because "your father in heaven knows you have need of these things and they will be added unto you." (not verbatim, but very close). An extreme example, perhaps, but it illustrates the idea.

I got out of college and looked for jobs. I sent resumes to a number of places. Nobody was interested. So, I worked at Home Depot and took it easy. They treated me very poorly, and I decided to follow my feeling that something would could my way, and I decided to quit that day. No sooner than I did that, the lady who is now my boss came and offered me the job. Things worked out when I followed my feelings rather than trying to make things work out. A pretty dramatic example, but I will tell another quick story.

I was lonely after a serious relationship I'd had with a girl, and I "tried to make it work" with another girl I knew who I felt strongly about, primarily because of my loniliness and desire for companionship. I did the same with several other girls I knew, but they didn't care. I decided I was going to stop "trying to make it work", and that I would just concentrate on being happy with myself. In fact, I was pretty convinced I would never meet anyone!

One day I was just feeling very sorry for myself and pretty bummed out about life. I had the thought that I really needed something to get me going, but I didn't know what. So of course, not long after I met an amazing person who is now my wife.

SO that's how I feel. Everyone won't agree, and that's fine ;)

Best wishes!

[dboyer]

I have personally found that the job market for technical work is VERY competative. In order to find work, you would likely need to be able to offer something that most people can't. For example: job experience DIRECTLY related to your field, some sort of honors program, leadership in special societies, special achievements, exceptional academic performance, etc. My friends who have found jobs in thier fields of study have been able to offer the above mentioned experiences. If you're still in school, take the opportunity to achieve as much as you can--that is if you intend to go into your field of study. It will make finding a job much easier.

No kidding, which is why I'm trying to get involved in every "cool" technical thing around campus. Learn as much about as much as possible. I've spent some time in the electrical lab in the geophysical institute (think research facility). The engineers they have on staff don't just build circuits/devices, but they do programming and stuff. seems like it would help to be a jack of all trades. (Or so i postulate).

[ChickenTrucker]

Outsourcing is not the only culprit. The Feds have handed out more green cards than jobs that have been created. The schools of course all hype up getting degrees, of course; they like having those cushy academic jobs and always want warm bodies.

IT and programming was glutted long ago, despite the claims otherwise. Also a $100K a year job wasn't all that great if you had to live in Silly Con Valley to get it; $100 K didn't go far at all there in the 90's.

The fact that one poster had to take it because they wouldn't fund something else is a crime and a fraud.

How come nobody wants to be something useful, like a licensed master plumber? They make very good money.

College is vastly overrated these days, and has been for the last two decades. Some get lucky, but most don't. At least some have learned not to believe media and corporate propoganda, if nothing else. I know plenty of degreed people driving trucks, now, because it's that or starve.

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by ChickenTrucker
How come nobody wants to be something useful, like a licensed master plumber? They make very good money.


yeah, we got a sewer/septic cleaner guy who rakes in a *lot* of money (he drives one of those BMWs u see james bond drivin in the movies and lives in the area with all the surgeons) from cleaining up, literally, other people's human waste.

As much fun as shoveling human waste sounds, I'm trying to get into the Navy as an officier and take some exams monday. Should be fun!

[bosox79]

good luck trav:)

[fatTrav]

thanks, i'll need it on the math section...

[Fryguy8]

Originally posted by carbon-12
:eek:
/me afraid

I'm in my last year of HS and was planning on going into Computer Engineering. Maybe time to rethink that. :(

Bah this sucks :mad:

this has been said before, and it deserves to be repeated.

DO WHAT YOU WANT. Changing majors/fields just because there's better/easier money there isn't going to make you happy. Doing what you want and making less money always wins out from doing a crappy job and making more money.

[cybertron]

Originally posted by Fryguy8
this has been said before, and it deserves to be repeated.

DO WHAT YOU WANT. Changing majors/fields just because there's better/easier money there isn't going to make you happy. Doing what you want and making less money always wins out from doing a crappy job and making more money.

Very good point. This is part of the problem with CS jobs lately in general. Too many people got into computers because they expected it to be easy/good money and now that investors won't throw money at .com companies anymore, they're finding it's a little more difficult and now there are too darn many computer people around for the jobs. I'm personally doing it because I can't imagine anything I'd rather do for the rest of my life than work with computers, which is why you should pick your major.

On the bright side, the CS department at my school has shrunk by about 75% in the past couple of years, for exactly this reason. Classes that they previously had to split because there were too many people now have about 10 people total between the two classes. I'm hoping that will mean that there won't be quite as much competition when I graduate *hopeful*:)

[fatTrav]

just keep in mind u may be in teh same situation i am in: i am having to compete with the past 3 years's worth of cs graduates for the few open jobs around here. unemployment seems awfully high with recent cs graduates.

[drummerboy195]

I seem to be in the opposite position, in that I have had one job offer that I could take to the bank, and one that I would most likely be able to work out, and I am only 7/10ths of the way through my first quarter in college. One of them is from a guy who runs an ISP at home that I've known for quite some time, and I just happened to be available when he needed some extra help. I was told when I left for school that whenever, however I came back, I would have a job. The second is kind of underhanded, in that my uncle, twice removed, is in a position of authority at a local insurance company, and when I job shadowed the net admin there, we stopped by his office, and he put in a few good words. Additionally, my music teacher used to work in the IT dept there, before returning to finish his music degree.

As one of the above posters mentioned, its all in who you know.

[Taqwus]

I know how hard an IT job is to land
It seems to take 1 - 6 months on average to get a full time job and sometimes that job isnt a very good one
I am about to get my CS degree and will have about 2.5 years IT experience
I lucked out and about 4 months ago got a job that was doing helpdesk fora nationwide company, which should get my worth to riase some when I get my degree

[Valdner]

As a current school goer, reading this topic was both hard yet interesting (heh, kind of like Linux). It certainly raises a very important question in my mind. Is college worth it? Is it worth paying the extra money and extra time? From what it seems like, the answer is no. What do you guys think?

[Taqwus]

In the long run it is
There are employers that require a degree for advancement

[hard candy]

It depends, if you are going to be doing something at least 40 hours a week, why not try and do something you like to do? There is no sense in getting training/ a degree in something that makes you spend the next decade wishing you were doing something else. Think outside the box and see what you can do with your main interrest. Avoid a cookie cutter type of career track that is filled with other people whoi did the same thing in college and are now filling up the positions.
Example- You get a four year degree in network management with a slant toward mainframe maintenance. There are 500 other people who graduate the same year with the same type of training. There are 150 jobs open. That means the odds are against you, plus the salary offered can be lowered since there are so many candidates. But say your training was slanted toward wireless networking with some specialized training in setting up wireless hubs, there may be 50 other people with that type of training graduating and there are 45 jobs open. You've increased your odds and the salary offered will probably remain higher. That's an example but remember, you're always better off with a degree and no job than without a degree and no job. You'll have an advantage over the next person who has lesser education, in the majority of situations.

[bosox79]

will said hard candy:)

[linux12414]

Originally posted by hard candy
It depends, if you are going to be doing something at least 40 hours a week, why not try and do something you like to do? There is no sense in getting training/ a degree in something that makes you spend the next decade wishing you were doing something else. Think outside the box and see what you can do with your main interrest. Avoid a cookie cutter type of career track that is filled with other people whoi did the same thing in college and are now filling up the positions.
Example- You get a four year degree in network management with a slant toward mainframe maintenance. There are 500 other people who graduate the same year with the same type of training. There are 150 jobs open. That means the odds are against you, plus the salary offered can be lowered since there are so many candidates. But say your training was slanted toward wireless networking with some specialized training in setting up wireless hubs, there may be 50 other people with that type of training graduating and there are 45 jobs open. You've increased your odds and the salary offered will probably remain higher. That's an example but remember, you're always better off with a degree and no job than without a degree and no job. You'll have an advantage over the next person who has lesser education, in the majority of situations.

Yes, I have to agree whole heartedly. During rough times, and I've had MANY, about the only thing I took consolation in was my achievement of getting a degree (mechanical engineering).

Sad to say to all you young people, but a lot, and I mean A LOT of technical/scientific jobs have now gone "offshore."

Thanks, Bush.

[ev8r]

thank god there are still boatloads of jobs for us cobol programmers :P

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by linux12414
Thanks, Bush.

Not to get o/t on my own thread, but I doubt *any* president would have stopped the migration of IT to other nations. Bush is not at fault here, it would have happened sooner or later. I wish we could do something about this, but I'm afraid that's not an option. I know I won't work for the same wages as those people will.

StateFarm located a few hours away in Bloomington, Il (where you can live like a king off of the 42k they start you out at) is always looking for cobol guys. might be worth a look ev8r if you're lookin for a job in cobol.

[CaptainPinko]

My plan is to get a PhD and the get into research at some large company or just stay in academia. Anyone doing/tried to do the same thing?

[cybertron]

Originally posted by fatTrav
Not to get o/t on my own thread, but I doubt *any* president would have stopped the migration of IT to other nations. Bush is not at fault here, it would have happened sooner or later. I wish we could do something about this, but I'm afraid that's not an option. I know I won't work for the same wages as those people will.

Yeah, it's pretty hard to make it unappealing to hire people overseas working for cents an hour when people here want tens of dollars an hour (or heaven forbid a salaried position with benefits:D). As I'm learning in my American Politics class, the President really doesn't have that much control over what goes on with the economy and such (gotta love a liberal arts education:)).

Did I just contribute to an OT discussion again? And a political one at that? I'm gonna get banned from the board at this rate;)

Wait, this is just discussion of why jobs are scarce, and that's come up earlier in the thread. So it's not off topic. I stand on precedent:D

It is political though, and I hate politics. Hence why I'm taking a political science class. It makes perfect sense doesn't it?:D

[bosox79]

It makes perfect sense doesn't it?

yep, unless you learn about something you can't very will make an informed judgment about it can you?;) I myself am a political junkie I just find politics to be very interesting

[Fryguy8]

One thing i'm thinking of, briefly mentioned above, is if I don't get a job out of college in a reasonable amount of time, go to graduate school and get masters/PhD. Starting to learn some advanced computer science topics is starting to really turn me on to staying in academia and even maybe making a career out of it. Still undecided, and I'd much prefer to be in an office setting, but I could definetely see myself staying in academia for 10+ years, and ending up with a PhD and teaching somewhere.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Fryguy8
One thing i'm thinking of, briefly mentioned above, is if I don't get a job out of college in a reasonable amount of time, go to graduate school and get masters/PhD. Starting to learn some advanced computer science topics is starting to really turn me on to staying in academia and even maybe making a career out of it. Still undecided, and I'd much prefer to be in an office setting, but I could definetely see myself staying in academia for 10+ years, and ending up with a PhD and teaching somewhere.

A month off at summer? A constant flood of fresh faces to teach? The prestige, decent pay, great job security... what's not to love? After all some of the best things in CS came from academia.

[Fryguy8]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
A month off at summer? A constant flood of fresh faces to teach? The prestige, decent pay, great job security... what's not to love? After all some of the best things in CS came from academia.

"what's not to love"

-Relatively crappy pay
-"Fresh faces" that act like know-it-alls and screw up the whole class because of their attitude
-Grading work on weekends.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Fryguy8
"what's not to love"

-Relatively crappy pay
-"Fresh faces" that act like know-it-alls and screw up the whole class because of their attitude
-Grading work on weekends.

-my friend's dad who is a proff makes $110k
-i'll give up a few weekends to get a sold stretch of time that would allow me to really travel.

[Loki3]

How can you guys even think of affording a Masters or a PHD? I can barely afford getting through four years of college.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Loki3
How can you guys even think of affording a Masters or a PHD? I can barely afford getting through four years of college.

It's a culturally thing where it is expected for parents to pay for university. My parents always suggested I'd pick up book rather than minimum wage job. My cousin likewise. Of course there is also the expectation that we take care of our parents into old age and this is not putting them into some old persons home.

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
-my friend's dad who is a proff makes $110k
-i'll give up a few weekends to get a sold stretch of time that would allow me to really travel.

Where does he teach?!? MIT, Yale? The profs at my school were making far less than half of that! I think most profs clear about 50k, if they are lucky.

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by Loki3
How can you guys even think of affording a Masters or a PHD? I can barely afford getting through four years of college.

I did it mostly myself because my family wasn't able to help out that much, but did when they could. I can't wait to get my loan re-payment books!

Though serously, from talkin to professors and such I have found that most never repay their loans in full. They make their payments each month and never really have any intention of busting their rears to pay them off. Education loans are usually the ones with the best rates and terms so it isn't a priority to pay off compared to other loans (house, car).

[Taqwus]

Originally posted by fatTrav
I can't wait to get my loan re-payment books!

Isnt that the sign that you are a true college student
I would like to get my masters soon, but I am stuck on deciding on what to get it in. I will be getting a BS in CS, but there arent any good Masters CS programs, so I was thinking of going for a MBA and then my doctorate

[spork2000]

I'm working on my PhD, Plant Pathology, not computer related, well I am doing a lot of GIS work.

I digress, I'm married, my wife makes good money, we live in the midwest where it was pretty cheap to buy a house with the down payment after selling our other one and I save enough monthly from my paychecks (yes as a graduate research assistant I get paid) to pay my tuition.

Many schools, like Purdue where my wife got her MS didn't charge tution to grad students. They paid less than where I am though. So it's a trade off. But I'll graduate loan free, except for my mortgage, which will be easy to pay off when we sell the house down the road and move.

[dboyer]

Originally posted by Loki3
How can you guys even think of affording a Masters or a PHD? I can barely afford getting through four years of college.

And that is why you need to graduate in the top %10.

;)

[nabetse]

Most of my professors got a significant chunk of money from research grants and side businesses. I hear that the effort in getting those grants or maintaining those businesses can be a headache on top of the research and teaching that you would be doing.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by fatTrav
Where does he teach?!? MIT, Yale? The profs at my school were making far less than half of that! I think most profs clear about 50k, if they are lucky.


He is a knot-theorist at the second or third largest university in the country in Canada. Hell, my mom as a college prof clears more than 50k. Throw on a decade of seniority and you should be ~65K. I'll get the pay sheet from my mom's union book tonght and post it here since there seems to be some interest.

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
He is a knot-theorist at the second or third largest university in the country in Canada. Hell, my mom as a college prof clears more than 50k. Throw on a decade of seniority and you should be ~65K. I'll get the pay sheet from my mom's union book tonght and post it here since there seems to be some interest.

That would be interesting to see. I don't think the schools I attended had a union or anything. I do know that my "main" school had a big budget crisis when an almu built a $20 mill building and told the school to "figure out how to pay for day-to-day upkeep" ... that was 3 years ago and they still haven't.

And that is why you need to graduate in the top %10. I had a 3.23 gpa comin out of college with two degrees (yes, I earned two diplomas) and a minor in a foreign language. I have no idea where I stacked up at my school.

I was in the bottom 50% in my high school class though, but I played football which opened more doors than academics ever did (just a note: academic scholarships are *much* better than athletic ones).

[Daedrus]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
He is a knot-theorist at the second or third largest university in the country in Canada.

FatTrav: Although still a good salary $110k Canadian(unless he is quoting in USD) is around 88K USD. Still much more than the profs at the state school that I attended get.

[Adenine]

RIght now I'm working on a Network Administration degree but I think I'm going to change my major to something else. Don't get me wrong I love working with computers but I can't see myself sitting in front of a screen for hours on end for a living. As for the pay...honestly I could care less about the money. I just want something that I know I'm going to be happy with. I've been thinking of either going into teaching or criminal justice because I've always had a huge interest in both areas.

Hopefully I can make up my mind before January. :)

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Daedrus
FatTrav: Although still a good salary $110k Canadian(unless he is quoting in USD) is around 88K USD. Still much more than the profs at the state school that I attended get.

It was in Canadian. The problem with converting Canadian into American slaries is that 1) we pay more taxes and 2) we get more from the government that we'd otherwise have to pay for ourselves. It's really kinda like pricing out an Apple if you add up all the extra features seperately does it match the savings? Now factor in cost of living in my city which is pretty good I'd say. A sweet *** 2 car garage 5 bedroom is around $125k I'd say. Rough estimate.


Plus he is one of the hiegher paid professors at the university. I'd get most make around $70-$80k CND.

Now looking at my mom's Collective Collective Agreement (http://www.opseu.org/caat/caat_ac/Academic%20CA%20Eng%202003-2005.pdf) salaries range from $44k-$83K (labeled page 20, actual page 24). Depending on your qualifications you start on a certain step and then each year you move up a step. Every couple of years they add another step.

But if your professors make ~$50k than thats fairly said that they are valued less then trades people like plumbers.

[jrbishop79]

It took me 8 months to find a job. I graduated from the local tech school with a degree in Computer Electronics Engineering and a Certificate (minor, if you will) in Networking Systems Administration. I had said that if I found a job in an IT department somewhere that I wouldn't complain. But after the first 6 months went by and only 1 IT related interview, I decided to fall back on my electronics background and did manage to land a job with a major copier company fixing copiers and fax machines and the like.

I was about to tell you the moral to this story, but I'm not sure there is one.. I'm just happy to have a job....

[MisterB]

I live in so cal and although i've yet to graduate with an under grad in EE, i was lucky to already land a job related to my field of study.

As far as an advance degree I think, and someone correct me if i'm wrong, however i think that theres more of an emphasis applied to higher degrees in Europe as compared to the US.

Of course a masters in whatever field will win out compared to just a bs, however in the majority of cases here in the states it's all about networking and having that undergrad degree. It's just a little check mark for the human resources department.

Aside from research, imo i think a great combination is your undergrad degree + either an MBA or a bachelours in business management. If you have those two plus any networking contacts, you should definately find yourself ahead of the pack.

[cybertron]

Originally posted by jrbishop79
I was about to tell you the moral to this story, but I'm not sure there is one.. I'm just happy to have a job....
Hehe, yeah I'm suspecting that when I graduate anything that makes me more than 5.30 an hour and doesn't involve large expenditures of money (ie college) will keep me happy for a while. Not sure how long, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it:D

[fatTrav]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
But if your professors make ~$50k than thats fairly said that they are valued less then trades people like plumbers.

Well, there's always a need for people to lay pipe and deal with sh**. (Not sure how big of a need for English majors or people who study German exist in the US) I know a septic cleaner guy who drives cars better than most of the area doctors and surgeons.

Originally posted by MisterB
Aside from research, imo i think a great combination is your undergrad degree + either an MBA or a bachelours in business management. If you have those two plus any networking contacts, you should definately find yourself ahead of the pack.

Quite true. More and more businesses want business people with nerd skills and not just plain "nerds" with no business background. Makes sense since.

[Loki3]

Originally posted by dboyer
And that is why you need to graduate in the top %10.

;)

Heh, yeah, right. I feel like the kid in Good Will Hunting, only stupid.

[fatTrav]

Well I just found a great job. I "held out" for a position that paid me what I was worth and gave benefits like working whenever the hell I wanted to (not 9-5) and working from home when ever the hell i want to.

The company found me though monster.com, so yes it does work. All you recent grads w/o jobs don't give up hope. Just stick to who you are and stuff will happen.

Oh, and this place is a liinux only shop and does a lot of open source software. hwo cool is that?:D

[Gertrude]

I got out of high school, and started working in a veterinary clinic because college was nothing that I was interested in at the time. After working there for about 8 months one of my friends mom told me about a few job openings that came up at the cable company that she works for. The jobs were for tier two tech support for the companies internet services. An easy job where you help customers with client side issues with connectivity, email, news etc, and a little network troubleshooting.. I ended up getting that job, and did that for the past 2 years while being a nerd on my off time. Playing with computers, and different kinds of networking equipment, setting up different kinds of servers on my network at home and have recently been getting more into Python. Anyways about a month ago I bid on a job for a Unix Admin at the same company. I got a interview, but after about a month of waiting for a response I figured I didn't get it. Then last Friday I got a call, and a offer for the job. I obviously accepted without thinking twice. I'm getting ready to go in now and make it final my signing a few papers. I think I'm going to be starting around the beginning of December!!!

[bosox79]

I just wanted to congratulate Trav & Gertrude, it sounds like you guys found great jobs:D

[rocketdude]

Originally posted by MisterB
I live in so cal and although i've yet to graduate with an under grad in EE, i was lucky to already land a job related to my field of study.

As far as an advance degree I think, and someone correct me if i'm wrong, however i think that theres more of an emphasis applied to higher degrees in Europe as compared to the US.

Of course a masters in whatever field will win out compared to just a bs, however in the majority of cases here in the states it's all about networking and having that undergrad degree. It's just a little check mark for the human resources department.

Aside from research, imo i think a great combination is your undergrad degree + either an MBA or a bachelours in business management. If you have those two plus any networking contacts, you should definately find yourself ahead of the pack.

I've been in the tech business for 20 years. The last 4 have been really rough. I have an MS/CS, 20 years experience, 2 patents, excellent rep, and have been accepted into a PhD program; yet I find it harder to stay employed in my industry (semiconductor) than ever. The trend to shift R&D to lower-overhead (i.e., overseas) locations has taken a substantial toll. Now I see that foreign student enrollment is down in US graduate schools. I think it will get worse before (if) it gets better. I would like to make a transition into the defense industry, however it takes so long to get a clearance now that becomes an obstacle if you don't already have one. If can stay gainfully employed until my house is paid off I may just go work at WalMart (or preferrably Target). :)

Rocket

[skubiszm]

I would like to make a transition into the defense industry, however it takes so long to get a clearance now that becomes an obstacle if you don't already have one.
I highly recomend the defense industry. Great pay, great benefits and once you are in, its pretty hard to get kicked out. True, ever since 9/11 they have really cracked down on the clearance investigations. I was lucky enough to get a co-op job in my second year of college where they actually cleared all of their co-ops (about 20 of us in all). This also meant that 6 weeks of my co-op consisted of surfing the internet, reading useless manuals, going to the librarys, and usually coming in late and leaving early.

All and all it ended up being worth every minute. Now that I have a clearance it opens up tons of jobs. Most companies that I talked to didn't really care about my GPA or experience, their eyes just lit up when they saw the clearance on my resume. I actually list it right after my name, before listing my education info and work history.

Also, I can see how it can be tough to find a job when you have 20 years of experience. That kind of resume demands a great salary, and unfortunately most companies are happy to hire a few recent grads that cost only a fraction of what someone with your experience would cost. A friend of mine works for a company in Chicago and his company went through a huge restructing and basically laid off all of the senior people and simple replaced them with people with < 5 years of exp. Sure you save a lot of money, but experience goes a long way. Good luck to all of you.

-skubiszm

[rocketdude]

Originally posted by skubiszm
Also, I can see how it can be tough to find a job when you have 20 years of experience. That kind of resume demands a great salary, and unfortunately most companies are happy to hire a few recent grads that cost only a fraction of what someone with your experience would cost. A friend of mine works for a company in Chicago and his company went through a huge restructing and basically laid off all of the senior people and simple replaced them with people with < 5 years of exp. Sure you save a lot of money, but experience goes a long way. Good luck to all of you.

-skubiszm

Actually, the defense industry doesn't hire "individual contributors" with much more than 5 years experience. After that you are a "systems engineer", i.e. know how to push paper. :(

The experience has been a + in my industry, however we Americans just can't compete $-wise with our foreign counterparts.

Disregarding how it affects me personally, Americans should be alarmed at the technological know-how we are giving away. It scares me we are losing our engineering and manufacturing skillsets. If we should ever find ourselves in a global conflict with only ourselves to rely on, we'll be in big trouble.

Rocket