dual boot?

[cR[a]I\Ik]

Hi

I am running a windows xp pc. I'd like to have a dual boot system with debian. I already have several disk partitions and could free one up for debian. 40gb should be enough, shouldn't it?

Can I install debian without problems on this partition, without losing data on the other disk partitions? Is it then possible to take files from a FAT32 system to some linux partition?

Or what is the best way to have a dualboot system?

thanks a lot

crank

[Rinias]

Well, I don't know much about debian, but I know that it IS possible to do a dual boot like you would like.

First thing you want to do is to defragment your XP harddrive, so that the information all goes towards the "front." Then, you need to partition your harddrive, and yes, 40 GB is definitely enough. You might consider making sevral partitions with the 40 GB, for instance you will want one swap partition (usually around 2x your RAM, though more than 1 GB is not usual), you need a root partition (where linux will be installed) and you can make another partition that you will mount at /home. This will be where you have _your_ files. I would say give 10 GB to the root (/) partition, and that it should be enough. If you're really worried, you can make a symbolic link from your /tmp to this disk where you have your other disk (the one that is hosting home). You can make a boot partition, or you can simply boot from a floppy. It's up to you.

Sometimes, though it often works well, you can install the bootloader to the MBR (where windows installs its bootloader), and it can cause problems later- if you ever reinstall windows or uninstall Linux completely, you will find you no longer have access to your system. Before you do anything, make a startup disk for your windows partition, and during the option in setup for linux, make sure you make a startup disk. Label these and put them in a VERY safe place. Also, you might want to download a version of Knoppix to use as a live cd in case you need to fix something. (I don't know how debian's CD works).

Otherwise, depending on your boot loader (GRUB or LILO), the setup varies. You should really research this (search around here and in Google - there are MANY MANY posts) before you do anything, especially if you cannot afford to lose the Windows.

As for copying your files from FAT32, that's no problem at all- you can write to them too, you you could use that as "Data" space, to read between linux and windows. Linux can read the NTFS, but not really write it.

If you need more help, search around a bit and then formulate your question. We're here to help!

Good luck!

Oh- and where are you in Switzerland? I'm in Fribourg...

[JohnT]

Dual boot with Lilo link in my sig.

[infiniphunk]

you may want to give KNOPPIX a whirl before trying that dual-booting. Download it FROM HERE (http://www.knoppix.org/) and burn the iso image to a cd. Make sure you get the EN version from 051704; should be around 700 GBs. Boot right from the CD(you already know how to chnge your BIOS boot-sequence, just set it to boot from cd with the knoppix disc in the drive) when you compy reboots knoppix starts up and auto-detects your hardware. Have fun! You will then find you can explore your other partitions in this way. In fact I'm online right now with this very version of knoppix running my system. I've got messenger running(GAIM) I can browse the web, I can see files on my system...yeha! I'll even attach a screenshot of it showing my windows C:\ partition. Fun stuff eh?
:D

[Rinias]

Actually, you'd want the original, german version. I do advise it, though, as well. Gives you something to try out beforehand. And takes JohnT's advice- probably the clearest advice you'll get.

Viel Glück!

[infiniphunk]

Actually, you'd want the original, german version.
Whoops! I forgot you Swiss sprachen de deutsche. Way to go!

[XiaoKJ]

Hey -- there is a similar post just a few minutes ago and its on the latest threads on the front page -- just look at it easily.

[saikee]

Don't know the origin of my Knoppix 3.3 but it looks like German to me.

An Internet article (can dig it up if needed) shows how it can be installed to a HDD from a bootable CD which is what I got. There is a shell script inside. At terminal command prompt just type knx-hdinstall and follow the instruction.

I have found out Knoppix 3.3 came with Lilo bootloader pre-packaged and couldn't incorporated it into the master Grub bootloader assigned to Fedora C2 in my case ( I permitted FC2 to take over the HDD MBR and so from it I could boot XP, Suse and Mandrake).

I end up having to boot Knoppix by a floppy.

Since then I amended the master menu of FC2 (/boot/grub/menu.lst ) by including 3 lines and now it is bootable same as the rest of the Linux systems.

I have a look at John T's method (in his signiture) and I think he uses Windows as the master booting agent. I used Grub from Linux. Grub is available from Suse and Mandrake (i.e. selectable at installation).

I am not familar with Lilo but the Grub system (an excellent web page is at the head of this forum) seems easy enough.

I didn't stop at dual boot I now boot 4 Linux with XP.

[JohnT]

I didn't stop at dual boot I now boot 4 Linux with XP. Ditto..with NT loader and Lilo. For almost 2yrs and mucho distros....including FreeBSD.

[particleman]

Hello:

I am doing the exact samething except that I am using my HP laptop to do it. I already have windows 2000 running on it and I have currently only ONE partion a c: which has about 32Gbs free. I have no other partitions. I have been reading alot of posts everywhere and I have a few questions. I have decided to with the stable version of debian. and I want to use Grub. But I read everywhere where people say Install GRUB to the MBR. but how do I go about doing that from windows? where do I download GRUB to and the how do I install it from windows 2K? also when I make the new partition for Debian? is it at the time of install, do I just let the linux installer take care of that or should I use partition magic? and if I use partition magic how should I format the partition (which filesystem)? So far these are the steps that I have outlined to follow:

- defragment my win 2K harddrive (to move it to the front of the HDD)
- Before I do anything, make a startup disk for windows partition
- Create partitions
- one swap partition (usually around 2x your RAM)
- a root partition (~5 GB )
- make another partition that I will mount at /home
- make a startup disk for Linux during the setup
- download a version of Knoppix to use as a live cd in case you need to fix something
- Make sure you get the EN version from 051704

But from here where do I go? how do I install GRUB? and what do I do after I install GRUB? or is grub included in the boot floppy for Debian? if so do I just boot from the debian floppy? I've read that I need to adjust some configurations on GRUB so that the boot loader gives me windows as an option. How do I do that and when? Really sorry about all the questions, I dont want to come accross like I havent done my homework but is just that most places I been to tell you to do it but not HOW to do it. Any help at would be appreciatted it. Thanx!

[Rinias]

Seems like you're off to a good start!

GRUB, if used in Debian, which I can not tell you, but it might be an option, is included in the distro usually. Though I don't know of anyone "installing it from windows," it may be possible.

Look at the link in JohnT's sig, it _should_ work for win2k as well.

As for the partition, you should probably do it before you go into your Linux install process- i.e., insert it as the step right after you defrag the win harddrive. Make sure, also, that when you are defragmenting the harddrive, that there is no _green_ block near the end of the drive- where you want to make your linux partition. It is not common that it is near the end, more often it is in the beginning, but you don't want to mess with that!

Unless you're committed to Linux that is... :D

Partition magic works really well- there's a "linux" option for the partition type, which is fine. The distro will need to reformat it anyway, so your easiest bet is not to make a new partition at all, but just resize the windows partition. The leftover will just be "empty space," which Linux can then pick up and run with.

Also, before you do anything, it might be good to look at this:

Linux Newbie Admin Guide (http://linux-newbie.sunsite.dk/)

Good luck! And remember that a lot of the problems you can solve before installation- but not all of them! Sooner or later, you just have to do it! But make a backup of your windows... :D

[saikee]

Paticleman

My experience with Linux installation is to let Linux do the partition of the hard disk.

This is because you may as well learn the cfdisk (semi graphic Fdisk and used by many Linux variations) in Knoppix which is very friendly. I would just set up a root directory. 5Gb sounds OK because it is usually 3 to 4 Gb large (my Knoppix is 2.75 Gb in a 15Gb partition) but Knoppix has QTparted allowing you to shrink the partition later on, kind of Partition Magic clone but I haven't used it yet. The swap of twice the memory is Ok and I use one common 5Gb swap for all 4 Linux in the HDD.

After the two partitions have been created Linux will install itself.

There are two important question it will consult you. First is the choice of bootloader Lilo or Grub. Second is your permission to install bootyloader into the MBR or its own partition.

The first Linux you put in with Windows you have to let Linux to install into the MBR. It will put Windows automatically as one of the boot choice. Basically you let Linux take over as the master booting agent.

Now the Knoppix I got is in a bootable CD and I got it installed into the HDD using information from the web. My Koppix 3.3 does not do GRUB! It only does Lilo, in my case.

I eventually managed to have it included into the master boot menu handled by Fedora C2.

You could be too cautious. You will not see Grub at all with Knoppix, although there are some GRub folders inside with the usual files.

[AdamZ]

Definitely create the partitions (or at least resize the windows one) before hand if you want to keep your windows partition. I'd also not recommend the stable version of debian. The packages are all very old, that distribution is more suited for server use. Go with testing or unstable (what I use), the packages will be newer. Other than that your steps are all fine.

[cR[a]I\Ik]

Perhaps my question wasn't clear. but I have two harddisks. the first one contains only windows xp and the second one contains different partitions, FAT32. Now I want to install Linux on one of those. does that work? When I start booting from an installation cd I only get to choose between hda and hde for partitioning, but not all different partitions. Can I skip that step or how does it work..?

thanks alot

crank

[AdamZ]

Originally posted by cR[a]I\Ik
Perhaps my question wasn't clear. but I have two harddisks. the first one contains only windows xp and the second one contains different partitions, FAT32. Now I want to install Linux on one of those. does that work? When I start booting from an installation cd I only get to choose between hda and hde for partitioning, but not all different partitions. Can I skip that step or how does it work..?

thanks alot

crank

You would choose the one that you want to install linux on, and then it will list the partitions on that drive and allow you to edit them.

[Rinias]

When I start booting from an installation cd I only get to choose between hda and hde for partitioning, but not all different partitions


That's exactly right. Just figure out which one you have XP one, and don't touch it! You don't actually get to see the partitions until later- after you've chosen which disk you want to put Linux on.

From my experience, the other easiest way to do your bootloading here is to connect the two harddisks so that the "extra" one (the one without XP) will be the master and XP the slave. XP doesn't usually like that, but the setup is easy enough. If you ever need to reinstall windows and you don't want to lose the Linux drive, just unplug the Linux disk and do what you want.

When I had a lot of important information stored on my Windows disk and I was trying new distros, I would also get used to unplugging the windows disk so that it's not touched. It's a pain, but it's safer.

Also, if you put your boot loader on the "extra" disk, if you ever mess it up, you just unplug it and you still have a system that works.

Anyways, figure out how your disks are configured right now. hda is the master on your primary IDE ribbon and hde is your slave on your secondary IDE ribbon (I think... ? This hde is confusing me...)

Anyway- GOOD LUCk! I think it's about time you just popped those CDs in- just make sure you have a good amount of free time to mess around with it once it's installed... :D

[JohnT]

Is this a SATA drive?

[cR[a]I\Ik]

If you understood you, that means I cannot prevent formatting my second, large and partitioned harddisk if I want to install linux on it?
It asks: which hard drive do you want to format? (think its for this swap partition I need afterwards) and then I can only choose between the two physical drives. But that is not what I want. I want to format only a partition of my second harddisk.... or is that not possible?

thanks alot

crank

ps. what is SATA? or how can I find out?

[saikee]

A Sata is a ATA hard drive runs in parallel mode. The cable connection is completely different and cannot be connected to the same cable of a ATA/IDE disk. SATA is software driven same as a SCSI hard drive. Thus a driver is needed before an operating system can "see" it. Many Linux has the SATA drivers pre-loaded but older versions may not. XP needs the driver to be installed as the first step of its installation too. ATA/IDE on the other hand is driven by the hardware and managed by the mobo. Think the maximum 133Mb/s transfer rate has been stretched to the limit. SATA is quite recent and started its life with 150Mb/s while SATA300 is under development. SATA and ATA are identical from the outside but the connection socket of the former has been reduced considerably. Also mobo supporting SATA usually allow the hard drives to be RAIDed and so two SATAs can be combined as one to double the size and the transfer throughput. Two RAIDed SATA definitely doubles the size and run significantly faster than a single unit. In UK a SATA is marginally dearer, say 5 to 10%, than a ATA of the same capacity. A SATA can be used on a mobo not originally designed to run it as PCI SATA controllers are common and dirt cheap.

You should be able to format any partition of your choice, just take care of not overwritting the Linux on the Windows partitions, that is all.

I find it a bad idea to creat a partition before Linux installation and prefer the distro to do it during the installation according to my instruction. Every distro ask permission to create the partition for its residence and it may like to have its own file type but I usually standardise on Ext2.

[cR[a]I\Ik]

If possible, I'd like to keep my partitions and its contents on the second hard disk but one, the one for linux. but how do I tell him just to format that one partition and not the whole physical drive??

thanks

crank

[saikee]

cR[a]I\Ik

Linux calls your two hard drives as the hda and hde. Your description suggests your Windows is in hda.

You must have empty or unallocated space on a hard drive before you can install Linux on it. Linux lives in a partition which you can create either before installation or during the installation. The Linux systems that I installed all want a swap partition for working purpose. The swap partition needs to be about twice the size of your physical memory. Most Linux can live in a 10 Gb partition and swap around with 2 to 3Gb space happily. If you allocated the empty space to Linux it will format it automatically during installation. I wouldn't worry about formatting the partition first because you would not know what kind of file system the Linux prefers.

Unallocated space is not empty space within your directory. It is physically an area not utilised in the hard disk. Windows by default just grabs the whole hard disk. A third party software like Partition Magic can be used to resize the partition to make room for new partitions.

If you haven't got space in your hard drive then forcing Linux to install will result the Linux "overwriting" the existing partition.

Linux can only live inside a Windows partition by special software like VMware. Windows also doesn't like Linux within its partition because it can't read the files created by Linux and thereofore can't manage it.

----------------------------

Late addition

During an installation, Linux will report to the owner the hard drive situation. Just like the hungry Windows it will automatically grab all the empty space available in an automatic installation so you must insist on doing it manually. Generally Linux will build the system to fit your hardware and then present to you the information before formatting the hard drive so that you can edit any of the choices before committing yourself.

In manual mode Linux will let you to create partition of the type, size and file type of your choice. As rule always create logical partition for Linux because you can get many more, where as in primary partition each hard drive permits only 4. The size has been covered above. The file type should be left with Linux but I normally standardise on Ext2 or Ext3.

Unallocated space is what you should prepared yourself for. If you want to see how the hard disk can be divided up take a look at this thread (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130244)

[AdamZ]

Originally posted by saikee


Late addition

During an installation, Linux will report to the owner the hard drive situation. Just like the hungry Windows it will automatically grab all the empty space available in an automatic installation so you must insist on doing it manually. Generally Linux will build the system to fit your hardware and then present to you the information before formatting the hard drive so that you can edit any of the choices before committing yourself.

In manual mode Linux will let you to create partition of the type, size and file type of your choice. As rule always create logical partition for Linux because you can get many more, where as in primary partition each hard drive permits only 4. The size has been covered above. The file type should be left with Linux but I normally standardise on Ext2 or Ext3.

Unallocated space is what you should prepared yourself for. If you want to see how the hard disk can be divided up take a look at this thread (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130244)

Yes, good point. Does the installer give you an option to choose an "expert" or "custom" installation? If so, choose that one, and it should give you the choice of partitions to create/use. And, contrary to saikee's advice, I would recommend creating the partitions first (If you have a partition program). The reason for this is so that during the install, you should be able to simply tell it to use an existing partition (the ones you created) for root, swap, etc. Honestly, formatting a new partition doesn't take that much time. This is what I have done for all of my (3 or so) linux installs, and it has worked for me every time. Just make sure you know which partitions are which. Good luck!