Linux's "Start" menu more user friendly than Windows'

[Pafnoutios]

I'm sitting here at my Windows machine at work when I realized something. The start menu in Windows is organized by company or product name. The K menu in KDE, and I think Gnome's menu also, are organized by category. If you were at an unfamiliar Windows machine, you would have to search through all the folders by name to find a program to do whatever you wanted (this argument looses strength if you want an MS Office program or any other program you already know specifically by name. This argument would be better for untalented computer users like my wife who still doesn't know the name of our DVD player software.) In Linux you just have to go to the category it should be in (though I did spend a while looking for The GIMP under "Multimedia" once when it's under "Graphics". I didn't notice the Graphics category and think of graphics as part of multimedia.)
Anyway, this is relevant to me right now because I'm setting up my sisters computer to dual-boot WinXP and FC2. I think she'll eventually end up using Linux more than Windows.

[elderdays]

Hope your wife doesn't find out you called her "untalented". :eek: She will be :mad:

[liquidfx13]

yes i have noticed this since the days of 98. And since that time i have had to spend the time to categorize my start/programs menu in windows so that the software is not only easy for me to find but for anybody that uses my computer as well. and let me tell you what a time consuming pain in the *** it is to do this. M$ could definitely take a hint or 20 from linux/kde on this and other things.

[bwkaz]

Not to mention that once you move the start menu shortcuts in Windows (I do it to keep the first level of my start menu at work shorter), then when you uninstall any of those programs, they don't remove the appropriate menu items. And when you reinstall them (for example, VS.Net after it screws up your WinCE project for the 5000th time :mad:), they create a separate menu entry under the root again.

It's not that hard. Keep the start menu in a config file, indexed by entry or something, and search that file when you need to know where "your" program moved to. Or, keep the directory structure like it is (which is nice), just have a separate file of cross-links which gets updated when people move stuff around on the start menu. Of course, it would have to be a text file so as to be easily edited (hah! good luck; knowing Microsoft, they'd put it in the Registry...), and the OS service that updated it would have to not hold it open all the time (so that editing would even be possible given Windows' file locking semantics).

Or, just do what KDE/Gnome do, and make the menu categorized to begin with. Much easier all around. ;)

[evangelinux]

Good thinking. I always (re)organized my start menu into categories in Windows (95 -->). In fact, I did it with Win 3.11! I just never thought of it as a matter of ease of use.

Of course, I think I've assumed that msot people would know what programs they've installed on their computer. I don't know why I would think that, though. I'm not sure how many people understand the difference between Windows and Office. A lot of people I deal with only know that "it's Microsoft". I'm sure a number of folks also have others install their programs for them - whether they pay the tech, or have their friend come over.

Regards,
Don

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by evangelinux
Of course, I think I've assumed that msot people would know what programs they've installed on their computer. Hmm... of course, that only applies when they have to install stuff. On Linux, with a lot of distros, there's a reason you have to burn 3 or 4 CDs to get it all (when you use the download edition; if you pay for it, they send you either 3 or 4 CDs, or a DVD). The base distro comes with a lot more software.

On the basic Windows 2000 start menu, right after a wipe-and-reinstall cycle, you hit start, programs, and there aren't many more than 8 choices. 4 of them (or thereabouts) are sub-menus, and the other 4 (or so) are programs. It's pretty well thought out. But the base OS comes with such extremely limited functionality that you have to start installing so much more crap, and that will start to inflate the start menu. Even companies that set up computers for consumers haven't gotten it through their heads to start to group the programs by function.

Though actually, maybe it's a good thing that Dell doesn't do that. When the user (or their nearest geek) does reinstall, they'll screw everything up...

[evangelinux]

While the wealthier Windows users can probably afford a fully loaded system, the not-so-well-to-do ones will have to buy the additional software separately and install it themselves. In a business setting, the tech just shows them which sbu-menu to look in for their program.

Of course, what typically happens is that I bring my copy of Quicken to your house and load it while we watch the ball game on your plasma t.v. You supply the free food and drinks. All you know when I'm done is that you can manage your finances on your pc, but you'll never really get into it because you can't remember where I put it after I leave, and you don't want to look stupid, so you tell me how well everything is going.

All goes well until the Feds raid your house and fine you $100's for having software you barely know how to use. If anyone thinks that's far-fetched, I promise, the reference to the raid is the only part that is. While it actually happened to a company, I don't know if it's ever hapened to an individual.

[j79zlr]

I've never understood why program in windows put a shortcut to their uninstall program in the start menu, WHY, just drives me nuts.

[RodNICE]

Half-way through the original post, I was like, "this dude is crazy", but now when I think about it, it makes sense.

The only problem I would say is that it was toooo many programs to start with and i'm too much of a newb, but then again, if I had an unlimited source of cash, I too would have a billion programs for Windows.

MEPIS came with LOTSA programs!

[soda_popstar]

The bad thing about KDE/GNOME menus is the fact that they don't put all your installed programs in the menu. With Windows, at least you have the option during application installation whether or not you want shortcuts in the menu/quickbar or a desktop icon.

Also, the KDE/GNOME menus aren't always that intuitive.

[evangelinux]

Originally posted by j79zlr
I've never understood why program in windows put a shortcut to their uninstall program in the start menu, WHY, just drives me nuts.

That doesn't bother me too much. From a marketing standpoint, it makes no sense whatsoever - make 'em search for the uninstaller! On the other hand I think it's ridiculous that every developer seems to think you want their program icons on yuor desktop. They have the nerve to put three or four if they can!

[El_Cu_Guy]

Actually, there was a PC World artcile about this very subject. It was called "The Windows We'd Like to See" or something to that effect.

Most programs that use the Windows Installer do generally give you the option of where to put stuff when you add it to the Start Menu.

Microsoft would do well to set up a way to organize programs. However, since the retail copy of Windows doesn't include squat it wouldn't make much sense for them to include a bunch of empty categories such as "Office Applications".

A better suggestion would be to get with manufacturers to set up some sort of standardized way to categorize the start menu. Every OEM computer sold would have a similar start menu and people might actually take the time to put things where thay should go rather than that simply under the root.

My suggestions (could be used for any OS really):

Accessories: Includes the junk like claculator, word/notepad, Windows Tour, etc.
Administration: All the admin stuff, AV, and ad/spyware removal utils too, move sys tools here, start up here too
Comunications: moved from Accessories, includes all your networking subs and such
Entertainment: moved from Acc. Includes Game subs. Like MS Games, Blizzard, etc.
Internet: Web browser, email cliient and such
Multimedia: SoundRecorder, WMP, MovieMaker, DVD player, QT/iTunes, etc goes here
Office Office suites word/notepad would probably go better here
Reference: Encarta, map software and stuff goes here
<insert manufacturer here>: All your computer manufacturers stuff goes here, links to their site, specialize update, and other garbage


When you use simplified categories even the dumbest computer luser can find stuff. That is unless of course you're like my dad. It seems he's too damned lazy to look for stuff so everytime I pop in for a visit I have to clean something up (he usually just reinstalls it if he can't find it). For the record, if I didn't take the time his Start menu would be a mile long. My moron younger sister and her idiot moocher boyfriend probably don't help matters.

[XiaoKJ]

In any case I would organise Office to one dedicated slot -- it takes up just too much space and its useless -- unless you repeatedly need to make new documents

I never needed to redo KDE/Gnome menus -- in KDE you just do a menu-updating and you are done!

And I could reduce the menu in WinXP fresh install to 5 -- including one menu I put in as "Useless Windows Embedded" that holds Windows Messenger, MSN and IE

:D:D:D