CS vs CE

[TheSpeedoBeast]

Hey guys, I am in the market for colleges, and I have to at least consider what major I am going to into before I decide where I am going to go. I am either going to go into computer science or computer/electrical engineering, but I really do not know what I want to get into. Not considering course material, what major would get you higher pay, and has the best job availability in the USA? I have heard that CE is the way to go if you don't care if you are more hardware or software based (which I don't), and that it typically has higher pay with more job availability. Can anyone confirm this for me? Let me know what you think here!

[duncanbojangles]

How about a dual major? That's what I'm doing, getting my degree in CS and CE. If they're both things you like and have done a little of before, then go for it. Many of the things you learn tie in together. And you'll be able to build and program your own computer, like this guy! HomebrewCPU (http://www.homebrewcpu.com)

[Dark Ninja]

Actually, based on a recent study, CE and CS majors are currently one of the higher paid graduate degrees (although CE has dropped in the past couple years). Sorry I don't have my hands on the study -- but, I did just read in it on CNN or something like that.

Anyway, my recommendation would be not to worry about what's going to make you the most money once you get out of college for two reasons. First, you cannot accurately predict the market four to five years from now. It could turn out that in four years, nobody wants a CE major anymore. Secondly, if you are only in a major 'cause you want to make money, switch majors. It's not worth it. Do something you love doing...something you are passionate about...'cause that's what is going to make you the money because, if you love something, you will throw yourself into you work.

By the way, have you looked into a Software Engineering degree? A lot of it is CS based, but it moves away from the theoretical (that a lot of CS is) and moves into the practical. Plus, many schools require that you focus on a specific area as you move farther into your degree.

Currently, there are not many schools in the US that have a Bachelor's SE degree. The first school to have this degree was the Rochester Institute of Technology (http://www.rit.edu/) I believe RIT was also the first school to receive accreditation(sp?) for that degree. It's just something to consider. I know many companies are looking to hire true Software Engineers as these companies have begun to realize that there is more to designing software than just implementation. SE concentrates on the process of creating software. In the end, this saves companies money -- and this is what companies want.

Just some food for thought. You can always PM me if you have any questions about the field.

[hard candy]

career info-computer engineers (http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft12.shtml)
computer systems analysts, database admins, scientists (http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft49.shtml)

That's a great site for career info for college students. And like DarkNinja said, in 2000, if you had asked computer people how big India was going to be in four years in the computer field, most would have probably said, "Well, probably growing, but my job is safe. " :)

[TheSpeedoBeast]

So basically, am I going to have trouble finding a decent job in 5 years in either of those categories? Or is this just a problem with people with only a bachelors degree? Because I am going to get at least 1, maybe 2 masters degrees (probably a tech master and an mba). Is outsourcing going to take all of my (decent) job openings away?? Or am I just being a worrywort?

[Dark Ninja]

Let's put it this way --

In order to succeed anywhere in life, you only have to be better than every other person you are competing against. Now, with the job market the way it is these days, that's a lot tougher to do. (Lots of students graduating, but not enough jobs for them to go into.) Also, you have to remember, you may need to do some crap jobs before you can get that dream one.

If I were going into college now, my recommendation would be to find a school that offers a solid internship program (or a co-op program at some schools). I know for a fact that some companies ONLY higher employees that they have screened through one of these type of programs. (IBM is big in doing this, for example. Microsoft is another one that is really pushing for students.) There are many reasons, but, it basicalyl boils down to the fact that students are:

1.) Cheap labor.
2.) Eager to please
3.) If they don't fit well with the company, they are gone in 6 months.

So, it's pretty much a no lose situation for companies. Also, an internship *really* lets you build up contacts in the business world. So...yeah...you may graduate a year later than your prospective graduating class (the ones you graduated from high school), but you'll be graduating with actual contact in the job market AND with job experience -- two things that look a heck of a lot better on a resume than just grades. (Although, grades are important.)

Also, as I stated previously, yes...it's always nice to know what your options will be with a certain degree when you get out of college, but I wouldn't worry about it all that much. Go with what you like to do. That's what will end up making you happiest in the long run.


P.S. I read a lot of those "gloom and doom" articles all the time. They aren't always right ya know...:rolleyes:

[hard candy]

From the second link:
"Jobseekers can enhance their employment opportunities by participating in internship or co-op programs offered through their schools. Because many people develop advanced computer skills in a non-computer-related occupation and then transfer those skills to a computer occupation, a background in the industry in which the person's job is located, such as financial services, banking, or accounting, can be important. Others have taken computer science courses to supplement their study in fields such as accounting, inventory control, or other business areas. For example, a financial analyst who is proficient in computers might become a computer support specialist in financial systems development, while a computer programmer might move into a systems analyst job. "
Computer systems analysts, database administrators, and computer scientists are expected to be among the fastest growing occupations through 2012. Employment of these computer specialists is expected to grow much faster than the average for all occupations as organizations continue to adopt and integrate increasingly sophisticated technologies. Job increases will be driven by very rapid growth in computer system design and related services, which is projected to be one of the fastest-growing industries in the U.S. economy. In addition, many job openings will arise annually from the need to replace workers who move into managerial positions or other occupations or who leave the labor force. Job growth will not be as rapid as growth during the previous decade, however, as the information technology sector begins to mature and as routine work is increasingly outsourced overseas.

Despite the recent economic downturn among information technology firms, workers in the occupation should still enjoy favorable job prospects. The demand for networking to facilitate the sharing of information, the expansion of client-server environments, and the need for computer specialists to use their knowledge and skills in a problem-solving capacity will be major factors in the rising demand for computer systems analysts, database administrators, and computer scientists. Moreover, falling prices of computer hardware and software should continue to induce more businesses to expand their computerized operations and integrate new technologies into them. In order to maintain a competitive edge and operate more efficiently, firms will keep demanding computer specialists who are knowledgeable about the latest technologies and are able to apply them to meet the needs of businesses.


Increasingly, more sophisticated and complex technology is being implemented across all organizations, which should fuel the demand for these computer occupations. There is a growing demand for system analysts to help firms maximize their efficiency with available technology. Expansion of electronic commerce-doing business on the Internet-and the continuing need to build and maintain databases that store critical information on customers, inventory, and projects are fueling demand for database administrators familiar with the latest technology. Also, the increasing importance being placed on "cybersecurity"-the protection of electronic information-will result in a need for workers skilled in information security.


The development of new technologies usually leads to demand for various kinds of workers. The expanding integration of Internet technologies into businesses, for example, has resulted in a growing need for specialists who can develop and support Internet and intranet applications. The growth of electronic commerce means that more establishments use the Internet to conduct their business online. The introduction of the wireless Internet, known as WiFi, creates new systems to be analyzed and new data to be administered. The spread of such new technologies translates into a need for information technology professionals who can help organizations use technology to communicate with employees, clients, and consumers. Explosive growth in these areas also is expected to fuel demand for specialists who are knowledgeable about network, data, and communications security.


As technology becomes more sophisticated and complex, employers demand a higher level of skill and expertise from their employees. Individuals with an advanced degree in computer science or computer engineering or with an MBA with a concentration in information systems should enjoy highly favorable employment prospects. College graduates with a bachelor's degree in computer science, computer engineering, information science, or MIS also should enjoy favorable prospects for employment, particularly if they have supplemented their formal education with practical experience. Because employers continue to seek computer specialists who can combine strong technical skills with good interpersonal and business skills, graduates with non-computer-science degrees, but who have had courses in computer programming, systems analysis, and other information technology areas, also should continue to find jobs in these computer fields. In fact, individuals with the right experience and training can work in these computer occupations regardless of their college major or level of formal education.

[maccorin]

Because of the jobs I'm personally interested in I have found a CS degree to be virtually useless. It seems that the jobs I really want need at least a masters, usually in mathematics. So my recommendation would be to figure out what you _want_ to do. And base your decision of off that.

[TheSpeedoBeast]

Yeah, the problem is, I really DON"T know what I want to be doing in five years, so I don't really have much to base that off of... Damnit, high school was so much easier...

[Parcival]

Originally posted by TheSpeedoBeast
Yeah, the problem is, I really DON"T know what I want to be doing in five years, so I don't really have much to base that off of... Damnit, high school was so much easier...

When I didn't know what to do after highschool I took a year off and went accross the big lake to college in big ol' USA. :) In college I quickly found out what I love most - I'm a psychology graduate student with a close affinity to computers. :D Seriously, if you don't know what to do and have the money, study abroad - in case you don't get good grades abroad nobody cares, but you still get an additional qualification in a foreign language.

[hard candy]

If I were you, go get a good education, just take it one day at a time. I'll bet by the second year you'll know what you want (besides that blonde in English Lit 102 :) ) . The first year will be general stuff anyway. The second year, you start to narrow it down. The third year you are into your degree courses, the fourth year you are saying, "Oh no why did I pick this!!" :D The fifth year the parents are saying, "Get a job". The sixth year, the dean says "get the heck out of here!". The seventh year, you're saying, "I like this money". The eighth year, the wife is saying, "How come we have bounced checks!!". The ninth year, the judge is saying, "Divorce granted". The tenth year, you are saying, "I think I'll go back to school". :D

[Dark Ninja]

The ninth year, the judge is saying, "Divorce granted".

Ha! That's what you get for marrying that blonde in English Lit 102.

The cute ones are always bad news...

[TheSpeedoBeast]

So even if I am not sure if I want to go into science or tech, are the courses broad enough to cover both of them during freshman year? That sounds like a great idea though; thanks hard candy! I am probably going to choose a bigger school, just so I have more degree selection. Purdue, anyone?

[hard candy]

Well, Purdue does have a decent football team, and pretty cheerleaders, and it does support Linux in a big way- sounds good. You'll be a Boilermaker, and maybe you'll get to go to the Rose Bowl soon. (Just beat Michigan and Ohio State while you're there).

[Dark Ninja]

My recommendation for picking out a school would be: visit them and meet a few of the professors. And, if you're lucky enough to visit during a school year (as most students seem to visit during the summer) talk to some of the students there.

And, trust your instincts on this. Don't go to a school because it has a big name or because it has a certain reputation...or, yes, even if it has pretty cheerleaders. Seriously, when you get onto the campus...if you just FEEL like you belong there, you probably are at the right place.

In order for some comparison, I visited a slew of different campuses during my search for the perfect college. During that time I visited some of the "bigger names" of colleges with respect to engineering and computing -- including MIT. Now, honestly, I'm not sure I would have ever made it into MIT. I didn't find out. As soon as I met a few of the professors and some of the admissions staff...well...I felt like they were looking down their noses at me, and they *definitely* were talking down to me the entire time. I went home and ripped up the application. (BTW - This isn't a trash on MIT. It's a fine school, but I just didn't belong there.)

The school I did end up going to...well...when I got there, I loved the campus, the professors that I met (three of them) were *extremely* into what they did, and the major that I wanted to get into was one of the best (if not the best) in the country. I just knew that's where I should be. And, I never regretted my decision.

Seriously, don't base your decision on what anybody else says. Go because a college has what you want.

[Parcival]

Originally posted by hard candy
Well, Purdue does have a decent football team, and pretty cheerleaders, and it does support Linux in a big way- sounds good. You'll be a Boilermaker, and maybe you'll get to go to the Rose Bowl soon. (Just beat Michigan and Ohio State while you're there).

Taking part in an honors' class my professor told me that she picked her university based on how bad (!) the football team is. The worse their football team, the more money they put into sciences, that was her reasoning. Obviously this strategy worked. :)

[hard candy]

All this stuff about "getting a feel for the school", "how bad the football team is", it's wrong. A university in the USA is only as good as it's football team and how good looking the cheerleaders are. (For Canada, I guess hockey would be the equivalent, but do you have hockey cheerleaders in Canada? Are they wrapped up in wool and furs since they're near the ice all the time? So it doesn't matter what they look like- you could have retired people doing it. )
If you want to get ahead, pick the school with the best football team and the prettiest cheerleaders, they have the money and can buy whatever professor for computer science they need. Plus, when you're 45 years old , would you rather root for the Carnegie Mellon football team or the Georgia Bulldogs? Woof, woof, woof.
Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford, Northwestern, all pretty good schools with football teams. Pretty cheerleaders, too. The football made them into the intellectual powerhouses they are today. Hup1, hup 2, hike!

[Dark Ninja]

:: raises eyebrows ::

I can't decide whether you're being serious or not, hard candy. Haha.

As for me -- I really don't like sports all that much, so I'm glad I never felt obligated to go to the sporting events, etc (other than an occassional ice hockey game). And, I wouldn't waste the time now rooting for a team I could care less about.

Now...if martial arts was a professional sport, well, my school would kick your school's...well...you know! :p ;)

[hard candy]

Now...if martial arts was a professional sport, well, my school would kick your school's...well...you know
I checked and UGA does not list an offical martial arts team. I know they're good at it though, the newpaper says students are kicked out all the time. :)
Well, getting back to computer careers, do like Micahel Dell did, find something you can sell, build up a business in 10 years , and then be a billionaire- sounds easy enough to me.