wondering about how much help pages do you read

[yhotg]

Hi again
I was wondering today about how much profundity everybody reach while reading the man, info, manual, faq or howto's pages.
I mean:
I finally decided to learn seriously linux, so i looked in the Linux Document Project & chose a nice linux-book called "Introduction to Linux - A hands on guide." written by Machtelt Garrels.
and every day or so i try to read one or two pages.
I got now to the second chapter :D
"how to get help"
and found out how to use the man page and info and etc. And here we got to my question:

How much every body really read of the man pages or info pages?
Like: i am the only one that is reading the full "info info" o the full "man man"?

how to know what is a must read? :)
There i SO much to read...

[Hayl]

i read all of them when i need to find something out, or i read the online docs for any apps i have never worked with befofore or any how-tos (unless it's some silly GUI app).

[Dark Ninja]

I agree with Hayl - I only read when I need to learn something, or if there's a topic that interests me. I try not to just sit down with a book and just start reading 'cause I tend to get *really bored* when I do that. (And then I lose all desire to learn Linux.)

My recommendation -- just start using Linux and start trying to figure stuff out on your own. When you run into a problem, look up information on it. The best way to learn is by doing. Reading should just help that process along.

Good luck!

[scinerd]

being an unix/linux admin I would say I read at least 3 a week. Most of the time I'm just looking up how an option works or trying to remember what options are supported on the platform I'm on. I'm good but not good enough to know every command option in my head plus with man's why bother. Second to the man I also use the -h option alot which usual prints a short help. one thing I like about man pages is the "see also" section because sometimes what's listed there fits what you need better.

[bradfordgd]

Another thing I find useful is the "apropos" command. You need to know what command accomplishes certain tasks before you can use the man for it. Apropos searches text in man pages for a keyword you specify, then displays the commands that have that keyword in their man pages. Doing "apropos network" for example, shows all sort of commands that have to do with configuring and monitoring your network connections. You can then do a man on the individual commands to find out exactly what each does and if it will accomplish what you want to do.

[mdwatts]

Some might be surprised as to the amount of documentation (manpages, faq's, how-to's etc.) most distros include (if installed of course). All the distros I've installed have included most of the how-to's from the Linux Documentation Project ( www.tldp.org ) which makes it unnecessary to go online to visit the LDP. Plus all the application documentation installed by the app packages.

i.e.

/usr/share/doc/howto/en/htm (219 directories/2674 files)

/usr/share/doc/howto/en/txt (465 files)

/usr/share/doc/packages (828 directories)

Lots of hardware/software/administration guides in /usr/share/doc/howto/en/htm.

Some distros include documentation browsers such as SuSE's HelpCenter which makes it easier to locate and view the how-to's, manpages and admin guides.

[ph34r]

I always RTFM when installing software from source, etc. I will read man pages or equivalents when I can't get something to work.

For the class I teach that has a 3 week Linux component, I have all my students read the "how to ask questions" document on ESRs website. I also force them to use man pages and the --help argument, by telling them I will ask questions on the exam covering commands that I *will not* cover in class, and that are guaranteed to be so weird that no one with a little bit of Linux experience will know anything about them. I also tell them the point of asking this stuff is to show they know how to get help and RTFM.

[yhotg]

what's RTFM?
(opss, i didn't went to look that in the help pages)

but anybody actually read the "info info" complite, from begining to end?

[DMR]

Originally posted by yhotg
but anybody actually read the "info info" complite, from begining to end? No, I keep falling asleep right around the part where the butler gets eaten by the giant Wombats.

:D


Seriously though, when I first start learning an OS, I tend to read as much as I can about commands and their options, filestructures, boot process, and all that. Once I've gotten a good general concept of how the OS works and how to get around in it, I don't usually read man/info pages, HOWTOs, etc. unless I have a specific question.

[Dark Ninja]

Originally posted by DMR
No, I keep falling asleep right around the part where the butler gets eaten by the giant Wombats.

Ah geez...you ruined the story for me...I could've SWORN the butler did it.

DON'T give away the rest of the story.:p

[sharth]

I use man pages as a reference when wondering what certain flags on programs do.

such as, tar -cvvf blah.tar blah*

if i hadn't memorized it, I would go to the man page, and see that c means that its creating a new tar, v (and the second v) mean verbose output, the more v's, the more verbose. and the f is the output file. blah* being the files to be placed in the output file.

I'd say atleast a few a day, assuming i'm doing new stuff. But I refererence mailing lists as well.

[gehidore]

i read the mans most of the time but it seems that mine tend to disappear after a while (must be sleep typing again "rm -r mans")

now the true question is how many of us actually use G4L BEFORE posting?

[yhotg]

i think i read already like 4 hs of man & info pages
and i am not sure if i really learned something or not.
maybe i am reading the really very very basic stuff, don's know.
wait.... i learned to read info pages!!

now, i looked and didn't found no nothing.
what is G4L???

..................

okok. i got it. i went there and search G4L in google -
i think i reached my neuronal limit today

[knute]

yhotg,

I find that the best way for me to be able to actually retain what I've read in a man page is to actually have a NEED to use it right away!

I mean, if I might possibly have to use the command ryndflat to fix the fleibermyster strings once in the next 6 months, I most likely won't bother till I actually need it.

How ever, for commands that are used everyday (ls, cd, mount, umount, ln, etc....) I know what they do, and are aware that they have flags that I don't use all the time, and know how to get the info about those flags when I need it... That's what they are there for.

Out of all of the commands that are in my /bin, /sbin /usr/bin, and /usr/sbin directories, I actually use a surprisingly few directly. So don't sweat not knowing everything! I doubt that there is even a handful of people on this planet that knows everything! :D

[gehidore]

GOOGLE FOR LINUX (google.com/linux)

its ok i reached mine when i was 12 LITTERALY

it got worse at 16 when i was a junior

i cant retain infomation in long term memory (very well at least) for longer than roughly 24hours, so ive learned to remember at night thus a second recollection of the days activitys and i can store info in LTM using STM recal functions. but because of that i dont actually ever fall into a true sleep. (it sucks)

so tommorow i will remember posting this but not what i posted and then a few days later itll just be like oh wow i FORGOT i posted that (when i do remember)

if you read my profile youll find out why its worse than it was.

[knute]

Originally posted by gehidore
GOOGLE FOR LINUX (google.com/linux)

its ok i reached mine when i was 12 LITTERALY

it got worse at 16 when i was a junior

i cant retain infomation in long term memory (very well at least) for longer than roughly 24hours, so ive learned to remember at night thus a second recollection of the days activitys and i can store info in LTM using STM recal functions. but because of that i dont actually ever fall into a true sleep. (it sucks)

so tommorow i will remember posting this but not what i posted and then a few days later itll just be like oh wow i FORGOT i posted that (when i do remember)

if you read my profile youll find out why its worse than it was.

So then how do you remember how to drive, or to brush your teeth, or even to shower!?!?

hehehe... Sorry, idle curiousity! :rolleyes:

[bwkaz]

The manpages for system calls (in section 2, and other glibc functions, in section 3) are better than the manpages for utilities. But not by much.

I use manpages very very often, but I rarely use the manpages for commands. I use the ones for functions -- system calls or glibc stuff. Ones like socket(2), connect(2), gethostbyname(3), etc. Many of the manpages in section 5 are nifty too -- those describe file formats (so like /etc/fstab would be in fstab(5), etc.). Section 7 is sometimes useful when working at the raw socket layer, since it describes conventions and whatnot -- specifically, conventions like how to use an IP socket as opposed to an IPX socket, and which errors TCP sockets return on top of the ones that IP and any-protocol sockets return.

[gehidore]

if you know anything about the brain (not many of us do) but unfortunetly its one of my interests

you brain has different parts that perfom different functions.

eg frontal lobe controls emotions for the most part

but at the far back near the middle is the primary visual cortex.

for me i still have motor conrols at 90%
equilibrium a litle less that normal
learned functions 95% teeth brushing nosepicking driving...(showering is a hard one i forget what to do) ill just get wet and get out then wash the hair on me head

but the long term memory me remembering what you said yesterday today is a little behind

there are functions that are instinct and others like how to use a spoon or that the stove is hot ( i think;) ;) ) that i have not lost but new learning is the hard stuff.

saddly i connot remember the exact names of the functions for i just learned of them this year ruftly a week ago

so to sum it up i remember kindergarten like it was yesterday getting in trouble for ruining stephans duplo train hiding in the "book cave" the teacher explaining that she wasnt married but was going to have a baby and that it was a miracle....

but any new memorys are kind of like an outline to an essay but without the details.

but i like it (sometimes) i can simply (honestly) say "im sorry i forgot"

my gf hates it though cause i can remember EVERYTHING she said all the day she rememberd it but then the next day she wants to finish some conversation and ill be like "i said WHAT?!?!??!?!?"

[knute]

Thank you for the explaination! It was enlightening.

[gehidore]

right,

silently wondering to self is this sarcasm or not...

glad i could

emerge enlightenment

in your brain

ps dont shoot your self:) :) :)

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by gehidore

now the true question is how many of us actually use G4L BEFORE posting?

Or bother to read any of the installed documentation as I posted above? :eek:

[yhotg]

Do you remember we are talking about beginings right?

Not about installing a new appl in your running & configurated box and being to lazy to go and read the documentation that comes with the appl.

I mean about having to do all in the computer and trying to figure out what first (and so what to read first), and what is not really important right now. (i.e. the fonts and all the documentation to et them, and change them and switch between english and local fonts is not so urgent - i see the screenshots and my teeth scrach, my desk looks so ugly! Or thinking about go and look what's gtk2 or if it is installed or not.... well you get my mining)

I am not complaining, i am very serius about this time getting to lern linux, all of it. But really, what to read?

ahh. i already read all the "info info"
lol
:rolleyes:

[gehidore]

so just seeing if id get some post diggers to yell at me...

i never used to do any research id just post heeelllpp mmemeeee

[yhotg]

mmh? what??

[gehidore]

i brought up G4L which was not part of your topic...

[yhotg]

yes, thk u. since then i put it in my short list of bookmarks in the firefox so to remember to go there before asking in the forums.
;)

what i was thinking yesterday was that what i found that i need sometimes when i ask here a stupid questions is someone to tell me where to look, and what to look because most of the times i don't know even the name of what i am talking..
i found enlightning the post with list of important links .
:)

[hard candy]

I like having a book like "Running Linux", "The Kernel in a Nutshell", etc. by the toilet, so I can read it while having my coffee. I have learned a lot just having them there and picking out a topic while rambling through the pages.
It always gets interrupted by the inevitable knock on the door and the cry of "What's taking you so long???".
:)
Of course with the wireless setup I could take the laptop but then I'd never come out.

[knute]

Originally posted by hard candy
I like having a book like "Running Linux", "The Kernel in a Nutshell", etc. by the toilet, so I can read it while having my coffee. I have learned a lot just having them there and picking out a topic while rambling through the pages.
It always gets interrupted by the inevitable knock on the door and the cry of "What's taking you so long???".
:)
Of course with the wireless setup I could take the laptop but then I'd never come out.

So are you saying that you work best without pants on???:confused:

[gehidore]

Originally posted by knute
So are you saying that you work best without pants on???:confused:


Dont most of us??

;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[hard candy]

So are you saying that you work best without pants on???



Yea, and if I take the shirt off, I can really get stuff done. Now there is a concept, nude linux. ;) (no emulation possible!)

Back to the info and man pages, you'd have to be really dedicated (compulsive?) to read those things one after another. I'd think something like a good book on linux administration would kind of tie things together and keep you oriented in reference to how things work together.

[gehidore]

back to the toilet subject

we should make it mandatory that man pages scroll on screens in all public bathrooms then you have no choice but to read them