HDD/Mainboard Refusing to Work.

[Disk Monkey]

9 hours ago I began assembling all of the parts to build my own new system that I'd purchased earlier today. I followed the instructions to a T and was properly grounded. I went through my share of woes, a bad FD cable, hard drives not being recognized, RAM not properly inserted, failure to install an OS (many of them).

So this is basically my problem: If I try to use the Win95 bootdisk it says I can't write to disk. If I try to install LibraNET it says it can't install the base files, but it can repartition the drive to RFS. Using Slackware nets me a similiar results, only, I'm not allowed to write anything in CFdisk or Fdisk. WindowsXP crashes everytime I get halfway through the installer. Yes, the cable is on correctly. Yes, the cable is good. The HDD is brand new. I've checked every wire, I've examined every nook and cranny, I've double-checked the mainboard for shots, I've broken it down and built it up at least 5 times looking for problematic pieces of hardware. I've tried a multitude of different pieces of hardware. Currently out of 4 different HDDs I can't get one of them working Save...and this is the kicker, a POS win98se that's been hanging around my house, it's was already formatted, and it just boots up into 98se carefree... However it doesn't let me use my CD-ROM. The HDD from my old computer which was slackware 9.1/WinXP won't boot either with BootDisks, BootCDs, or anything. LiveCDs can't create RAM images...I have no idea whats' going on, but chances are if you can name it it's happened or I've tried it. Basically I can't install an OS but everything is recognized, supposedly functions fine, the onboard ethernet is fine, oneboard sound is fine...I've gone through the instruction manuals for the mainboard and the HDD time and time again... I just don't know. If I do managed to get WinXP installed it says "Windows cannot boot from this Disk." If I try to boot from my other hard disk it says "Disk Read Error Press CTRL+ALT+DEL" I tried booting into Floppix but it also couln't create a RAM image, and yet all of my RAM tests out at what it's supposed to. Essentially everything is working fine, including the HDD (or the illusion thereof) I just can't install an OS or boot from the HDD. The system I built is an AMD 2600+ w/ 256 MB DDR PC2100 a 40 GB Maxtor and an Abit KD7A I may end up just returning the drive and the Mainboard and trying again with new stuff...I have no idea what's going on...And all anyone around me can say is "Have you tried FDISK?" I guess I'm hoping that you linux users will be able to provide at least some knowledge into such a thing beyond the tiny cranial capacity of windows users... But I swear to god if one of you tells me to use FDISK *shakes fist jokingly* FDISK was one of the first things I did :rolleyes:

[hard candy]

Did you try using "fdisk"? Just kidding.
Try this troubleshooter, helped me a lot,
PC setup (http://www.pcguide.com/ts/x/ggen01.htm)
The thing I was doing wrong was inserting the cable with the No 1 wire inserted backwards.

[hard candy]

And try reversing the jumper settings on the HD, i.e, if using master/slave, try cable select and vice versa.

[Disk Monkey]

Thanks for the Suggestions dudes, I'll try that posthaste and get back to you in about, oh.....20 min. max.

[Disk Monkey]

Okay. So I tried reconnecting all the cables, and the HDD works perfectly in another system. I changed the HDD to the first IDE Bus and switched cables w/ the CD-ROM drive. It worked. Perfectly. But everything as hanging over the side of the case and all weirded out, so I put it all back in and booted up and tried to install an OS and bam, doing exactly what it did before...I think my mainboard may be bad... :|

[gehidore]

try new cables.

first unplug all drives.

then plug in one at a time starting with the newest one. or the primary drive ie master slave. if it is a single put it on cs cable select

[EnigmaOne]

Take the motherboard out and inspect the memory DIMMs closely. Some motherboards are relatively unsupported by the mounting hardware in the region of the DIMM slots, and the motherboard will flex--making poor connection between the DIMM socket and the center connector pads on the module.
Remove each Memory Module, and re-insert them, with the motherboard supported fully by something like a table--with some anti-static foam between the reverse side of the M/B and the surface of the table.

If you can, do the same with the expansion cards--possible to do with cabinets having a removable M/B mounting plate/drawer/etc.

Re-install the motherboard into the system cabinet, with the appropriate stand-off hardware. Double-check this requirement against the M/B manual and the physical layout and construction of the cabinet and any possible integrated motherboard support structures. If in doubt, insulate any metal support hardware with something like vinyl electrical tape, small scraps of plastic milk jug material or non-conductive shim stock.

Make certain that the bottom of the motherboard isn't touching cabinet at any point. Some cabinet/motherboard combinations may force you to maintain the motherboard mounting clearance with strategically-placed pieces of masonite or thin plywood, secured with double adhesive-sided, foam tape.
On some cheaper cabinets, it's just easiest to cut a full-footprint piece of wood (1\16" thinner than the standoff height), and drill it to allow for M/B stand-off relief. If you use masonite, place the un-finished side facing the solder-side (bottom) of the motherboard.
Some consider this to be extreme, but I *have* run into situations where iit is necessary; and it's never an issue after that.

If you're mixing jumpering styles (master-slave and cable select) in the same chassis...don't.
Pick one or the other and stick with it for all drives (CD & HDA).
If you have 80-conductor cables, you *should* be ok to CS jumper the drives, but I've run into systems that I've had to fall-back to M/S jumpering just to get things working right.
If you have 40-conductor cables, forget CS jumpering...no matter what the cables indicate. They don't always work right, and are often mis-labeled (especially on the bargain-priced units).

If your brand-new hard drive is a Western Digital, it has been my experience that they don't like any other brand of drive on the same IDE channel.
If this is the case, you'll probably have to explicitly jumper the drive as "Master in a dual-drive system" and the secondary drive on the chain will be explicitly jumpered as Slave. You may have to shift a Western Digital drive to the Slave role, just to get things to work right...even if the other drive is a Western Digital, though a different model number in their product line.

When you re-install drive cabling, make sure no pins have been bent inside the IDE connector housings--that's sometimes easy to miss because most cabinets aren't built to allow you to get your head inside far enough to see such things. ::: grin :::

Make sure that you are using the screws supplied with the hard drives (having stud lengths no longer than 4.5mm[3/16"]), otherwise you might be running a screw into the drive electronics--in the best of worlds, *only* shorting something out.

Off the top of my head, those are the things that I can come up with as helpful mentions; but I'm willing to bet that you're dealing with motherboard flexion/deformation in the region of the DIMM sockets, or you're crashing a screw into the drive electronics--and are incredibly luck at that.

[edit]
Also, make sure that you aren't cranking the HDD mounting screws down too tight, and that, the HDA isn't being warped when you do tighten down the screws. One screw is better than 4, when using 4 means that the voice coil can't rotate freely or that the tracking is thrown off.
Another consideration is those cabinets that use screw-less drive mounting approaches. (Slide locks that basically wedge or clamp the drive in place.) I've run into a number of systems that, when these are used to secure the drive, sector 0 is inaccessible, giving symptoms similar to what you're describing. Use screws instead--leaving the clamp loose--if that's the drive mounting scheme your cabinet uses.

[Disk Monkey]

When I put it in I used the screws it came with, but the HDD didn't line up exactly correctly so I had to screw a couple of them in a little bit cockeyed, IE, stripping the case and putting a little bit of pressure ont he board (Not really that much, though, just enough to hold the thing in place).

However I'm using the machine right now and so far so good. I think that this drive may just be very picky, because I've changed HDDs a great deal int he past but this one requires an Oh, So ginger, and yet strong connection of the IDE cable and if it isn't pushed in like...completely 100% monkeyspank it gets pissy but the cable is black and the case is black...and the hard drive is black...its' all black...I have to get a lantern and hold it over the case just to see what the hell is going on...Aye yi yi...
Beyond just pushing the IDE cables in really hard over and over to get things working right, I removed a Zip Drive from my seond IDE chain and for some reason that allows the HDD to boot (THe HDD is on a chain all of it's own). I also switched the HDD to IDE Bus 1 rather than 2. I have no idea if that makes a difference. And I did set it to slave. And so far, so good, except for a few minor hiccups... >_>;; I'm about to take it for a test-run in Neverwinter Nights.

However, In the process, the hardware has gone through alot of abuse with the pluggins in, and the unpluggins, and the constant tipping of the case on it's side and then back up, I have 15 days to return the stuff to Fry's, you guys think I should just go get some brand-new stuff now that I know exactly how to set it up and exactly how to make it work? Lol...I'm afraid to touch it though, because I've disassembled and reassembled many systems in the past but this one is so fscking finickity that it's not even funny, it's just beyond. I can't use my Zip w/ the HDD (I'm assuming the Zip is bad) and if I try to use 2 Floppies that's a whole nother can of worms and and the IDE cable just has to be randomly inserted "so-so" I find myself having to bootup and having it fail, taking it out, plugging it out and back in, having it fail, plugging it out and back in, having it work, having it fail again later, plugging it out and in... Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

Oh, and I just lost my Floppy Disk. *throws hands up in the air* Whoever said building their own computer is easy must've been bashed over the head with a PDP-11...repeatedly. In theory, I'd say it's easy, but running into this kind of crap makes me murderous... V_V

[EnigmaOne]

Originally posted by Disk Monkey
When I put it in I used the screws it came with, but the HDD didn't line up exactly correctly so I had to screw a couple of them in a little bit cockeyed, IE, stripping the case and putting a little bit of pressure ont he board (Not really that much, though, just enough to hold the thing in place).

Uh, yeah...that's probably your problem. From what I've seen in the past, it doesn't take much pressure to warp an HDA--especially the newer ones.

Ditch the screws that you had to monkey-around with the drive alignment to get threaded in, and leave the screw holes empty. After all, you aren't planning to take the system when you go off-roading, so the drive will stay put.

If it looks like it'll droop enough to short-out the pc board, slide some paper, or part of the hard drive carton under it.

In the end, if it works, it's the right way to do it.

BTW: Don't buy stuff at Fry's. If you're in SoCal, PC Club is a better bet for quality.

[Disk Monkey]

Lol, sorry, I was really frustrated. I'm using that PC now, and it's been working fine, but it's been overheating like mad...the PVM is up to 60-61 Celcius at times, the CPU stays cool never goign above 45 Celcius.

I meant to write that I was putting the motheboard on with a bit of a warp, as opposed to the HDD. But I couldn't get the motherboard to line up correctly on the screws because that thing that the ports stick through at the back of it kept pushing it and I had to push it really had just to get it to stay up against it...I took out most of the screws on it, so far so good.

I'm lazy, so when I screwed in the HDD, I only screwed it in from 1 side using 2 screws and they weren't very tight, it even droops a little... >_>

So far the HDD is the slow-point in my system. When it locks up or takes forever to do someting it's when the HDD activity light is solid. My RAM is usually at half-capacity, and my Processor is usually getting like 10% total usage. It's always the HDD. :\ I'm not sure, but there's a general lag in my system, I just upgraded from a Celeron 533Mhz and for the most part I'm not entirely impressed, GUIs run like ****, Games run really well and really nice, although there are alot of hiccups... :| But just like...loading a browser or switching between multiple desktops seems to take ages upon ages...aye yi yi