Well, the subject says it. Can anyone here convince me to use Linux on my desktop pc.
Right now I'm not really sure if I should be using it. Compared to windows it lacks in performance! I've used Debian, Mandrake, Redhat, peanut, and most major distro's. None seem to offer the performance of windows. It seems slow and bloated(esspecially using KDE). Whereas in windows....right now I'm downloading off edonkey, running my seti@home client, watching music videos, typing this, plus install linux on VMWare! My system is still running perfect....plus I haven't rebooted the system for 5 days now. But linux is slow, just watching a video uses all my ram!(in XP right now I got 250MB free) Other then that I don't mind linux. Its stable, secure....and I'm not overly dependant on windows only software. With the exception of some media players/plugins. Also IE seems to be alot nicer then any linux browsers.
Is it possible I've been doing something wrong? Is there any other reasons that would outwiegh the performance issues? (besides it being open source which is a big plus)
carbon-12
11-02-2003, 04:33 AM
"Right now I'm not really sure if I should be using it. Compared to windows it lacks in performance! "
You should try Slackware 9.1 and Gnome 2.4, its very fast and has up2date packages.
" None seem to offer the performance of windows. It seems slow and bloated(esspecially using KDE). Whereas in windows....right now I'm downloading off edonkey, running my seti@home client, watching music videos, typing this, plus install linux on VMWare!"
Maybe its just me but winxp seems to slow down after a half an hour of use(amdxp2200, 512mb, radeon 7500). With slackware I get fast and consistent performace.
"But linux is slow, just watching a video uses all my ram!(in XP right now I got 250MB free)"
Linux dosent actaully use the ram, its allocating it.
Linux just keeps everything cached in RAM until it needs to free the RAM. if an app needs the RAM then Linux will give it back.
"With the exception of some media players/plugins."
Funny you should mention that. I just got finished installing all of these codecs for xine. It can now play wmp, real, quicktime, etc formats. Its really cool!
If your worried about steaming vid from a browser, both xine and mplayer offer plugins.
"Is it possible I've been doing something wrong? Is there any other reasons that would outwiegh the performance issues?"
Well....if you have to rationalize a reason to use linux instead of windows, maybe you should just stick with windows. The reason im using it is because I want to go into computer engineering and ive been told that I should have a solid foudation in UNIX.
Once you get over the first couple of hurdles, linux makes perfect sense for a desktop OS.
EmperorPenguin
11-02-2003, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by u3mike
Also IE seems to be alot nicer then any linux browsers.
Try Mozilla Firebird. It's cross-platform and combines my favourite features of Mozilla/Netscape with my favourite features of IE ... plus it's way faster than either of those browsers.
ozdream
11-02-2003, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by u3mike
Well, the subject says it. Can anyone here convince me to use Linux on my desktop pc.
Right now I'm not really sure if I should be using it. Compared to windows it lacks in performance! I've used Debian, Mandrake, Redhat, peanut, and most major distro's. None seem to offer the performance of windows. It seems slow and bloated(esspecially using KDE). Whereas in windows....right now I'm downloading off edonkey, running my seti@home client, watching music videos, typing this, plus install linux on VMWare! My system is still running perfect....plus I haven't rebooted the system for 5 days now. But linux is slow, just watching a video uses all my ram!(in XP right now I got 250MB free) Other then that I don't mind linux. Its stable, secure....and I'm not overly dependant on windows only software. With the exception of some media players/plugins. Also IE seems to be alot nicer then any linux browsers.
Is it possible I've been doing something wrong? Is there any other reasons that would outwiegh the performance issues? (besides it being open source which is a big plus)
All I can say is "Give me a break!" XP IS "Bloated" slow and a Ram HOG!
I have been running SusE 9.0 now for two weeks and IMHO it makes XP look like a, well a M$ product :p
dboyer
11-02-2003, 04:59 AM
I suspect we're being trolled :-)
its actually ironic, but if you took that first post, replaced every instance of windows with linux, and every instance of linux with windows, it will be my experience exactly...
but whatever...
don't use it if doesn't work for you dude... but im happy with something that works better for me and is free ($200 price tag seems like a good reason to use linux to me ;-))
Anomaly
11-02-2003, 05:18 AM
I use linux for 100% Desktop use. I dont own a server, I am not an admin and I am not a programmer in anyway.
All I use my linux box for checking mail, browsing net, downloading pr0n, watching movies and playing mp3s :)
Why I use it!?
Cause its much better then windows. I had no major problems with my $0 copy of win98 se, But Linux is better (I dont care about cost)
I dont even dual boot. My computer is a 100% win free machine :D
What I use?
Knoppix hdd install, upgraded to Debian unstable.
WM of choice
Fluxbox. Easy to use, LIGHTNING fast, Something much more cleaner then standard 1/4 screen of blotty panel at the bottom. Oh so cool looking!
P2P software in use.
mlDonkey. Kazaa lite is installed via wine, But I dont use it. Mldonkey works just fine.
Installer / Updater
Apt-get + Kpackage. Makes it easier then any windows that ever came into existance.
Browser
Mozilla 1.5.2 + extentions such as Mouse Gesture. I personally hate IE. Doesnt have any damn feature.
Email Client
Sylpeed. Fast and easy to use.
What does all that tells you!? I am less of a geek then you are. I dont even know what VMWare is :p
But if all your resources are getting wasted.. try out ps -aux and see what program is using up all the resources. Post here, you will certainly get a lot of help. If its some kde stuff, I highly recommend fluxbox/*box. Or if you want familiar looks, go for icewm or even gnome (Gnome is ofcourse quite blotty too)
Make sure you have turned off all the non required services that start at bootup.
My system is:
P4 1.7, via 32mb shared AGP, 512mb ram, blah blah (Not a power machine)
xmms never skips or stops playing even if all the system resources are used to 100% (according to gkrellm and skippy lagging mouse) Everything works like a charm, and as carbon-12 said, it doest starts blotting after some time. I have never seen RAM getting used up to even half at any given time. I dont think I even need a swap partition :p
Linux indeed does makes perfect sense for a desktop OS!
Edit: Guys.. He *might* be a troll, But lets take this thread in a positive way. Lets hope that there will be more lurkers that find this interesting.
Lets just hope that I no longer remain one of a kind! ;)
je_fro
11-02-2003, 05:40 AM
Not buying it.
If this is true then you should format all your linux partitions NTFS, and never look back.
Good luck.
(By the way, does Ballmer know you're a troll on your breaks?)
ozdream
11-02-2003, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by dboyer
I suspect we're being trolled :-)
Yes, you are most likely right....... :eek:
Loki3
11-02-2003, 05:52 AM
If windows works for you then stick with it.
"If it ain't broke don't fix it."
BottleNeck.
11-02-2003, 06:06 AM
"If it ain't broke don't fix it."
Or....
If it is broke and u can't fix it...
Hide it !
chatins
11-02-2003, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by u3mike.
My system is still running perfect....
Mike, I gotta give you some bad news about spyware and viruses. Your system probably has lots of both, not to mention the id10t error it appears to have developed.
We took off a virus today at work called generic [security] from an XP machine that NAV did not catch. Deleted the users email and compromised the system.
I have to use Linux on the desktop because failure is not an option.
ozdream
11-02-2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by chatins
Mike, I gotta give you some bad news , not to mention the id10t error it appears to have developed.
Very :D :D :D
kingmaximus
11-02-2003, 09:18 AM
what the linux world needs to do is to get the gaming vendors to release also for linux. Then windows is dead, until then.......need to have the dual boot :mad:
KingMaximus
ricstr
11-02-2003, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by u3mike
Well, the subject says it. Can anyone here convince me to use Linux on my desktop pc.
Right now I'm not really sure if I should be using it. Compared to windows it lacks in performance! I've used Debian, Mandrake, Redhat, peanut, and most major distro's. None seem to offer the performance of windows. It seems slow and bloated(esspecially using KDE). Whereas in windows....right now I'm downloading off edonkey, running my seti@home client, watching music videos, typing this, plus install linux on VMWare! My system is still running perfect....plus I haven't rebooted the system for 5 days now. But linux is slow, just watching a video uses all my ram!(in XP right now I got 250MB free) Other then that I don't mind linux. Its stable, secure....and I'm not overly dependant on windows only software. With the exception of some media players/plugins. Also IE seems to be alot nicer then any linux browsers.
Is it possible I've been doing something wrong? Is there any other reasons that would outwiegh the performance issues? (besides it being open source which is a big plus)
May be possible that your hard disk is not set correctly.
http://www.justlinux.com/nhf/Hardware/Hard_Drive_Speed_Tweak_for_Linux.html
Satanic Atheist
11-02-2003, 10:29 AM
A few points:
1) Stable
2) Stable (sorry if that looks like a repeat, but it's too important - no BSOD!)
3) Fast
4) Free
5) No viruses
6) Security
7) MASSIVE range of powerful, free software
8) Quick & Easy integration between Workstation & Server
9) Very simply configuration (easier than Windows once you learn - mostly text files)
10) Full support for a wide range of Hardware such as Sparc & Mac
11) Modular design prevents one program killing the entire machine
12) Total control over the entire machine so it does what YOU want, not what THEY want
13) Game support is faster than Windows (3 benchtests so far, one using WINE)
14) Programmer's dream - open-source is great for help & ideas
15) Freedom - good for small businesses & home users alike
I can't think of much more at the moment, but to comment on a few points...
Originally posted by u3mike
My system is still running perfect....plus I haven't rebooted the system for 5 days now.
What's the longest you've managed without rebooting? My Linux server has managed over 6 weeks before I had to change some hardware. I think my longest Win2k uptime was about a week before it was unusably slow. Try this (http://bash.org/?40918)
Originally posted by u3mike
I'm not overly dependant on windows only software. With the exception of some media players/plugins.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe all the codecs for Windows are available for Linux. Most of them are standards that aren't tied to a specific platform.
Originally posted by carbon-12
Linux dosent actaully use the ram, its allocating it.
Mine's running in the PSU right now! (Sorry, couldn't resist) :D
Originally posted by kingmaximus
what the linux world needs to do is to get the gaming vendors to release also for linux.
I totally agree. Thankfully, some companies are releasing native binaries for Linux (Wolfenstein, Unreal Tournament, Doom, Quake, Sim City 3000 and Soldier of Fortune).
At present, I get the impression that there is some ignorance in the software houses that Linux is excellent for Multiplayer Game Servers rather than games themselves. I don't particularly like playing Half-Life in WINE, whereas my server downstairs will run as an HLDS natively, but it works, so I can't complain too much.
Hopefully this will change in the not-too-distant future.
Originally posted by kingmaximus
Then windows is dead
Unfortunately it's not quite that simple. A lot of businesses use Windows and are tied into contracts with Microsoft that give them discounts on bulk-ordering if they buy licences for many years. This is mostly the reason that Novell are still around despite fierce attack from Microsoft. The guy in the finance office probably isn't a techie and looks at two competing orders (Novell NetWare and Windows NT4 or just Win2k/WinXP), sees the price difference (and the cost of deployment) and says that the company will stick with its existing contract for another 5 years.
Also, when it happens, it will be a long, drawn-out death of Microsoft and most certainly won't be happening overnight.
Well, I would answer loads more, but this post is already getting too long so I'll leave it for now.
James
hard candy
11-02-2003, 11:40 AM
2) Stable (sorry if that looks like a repeat, but it's too important - no BSOD!)
If you are running WinMe and earlier that is true, I haven't seen a blue screen of death in Win2000 and XP yet (after a year with both at work). Now java will lock them up, but it will lock up linux as well.
Security
Depends on the set-up.
8) Quick & Easy integration between Workstation & Server
Again, it depends on the set-up. It the server is Windows based, basically point & click.
I prefer linux, but let's be realistic.
Satanic Atheist
11-02-2003, 11:58 AM
How did I guess that you were going to post next? Seems to be a common trend around here...
Anyway, I've seen BSODs on all versions of Windows. WinME was the worst, by far. But also Win2k and WinXP.
Security (at least basic security) is native to a Linux installation. If you don't have root access, there's little you can do. OK, a moderately good hacker would have access to a fresh install in a very short space of time, but not everyone is a hacker. In Windows, any user can wipe out the system instantly.
By the integration, well, I had trouble with the DNS on the server downstairs so I simply copied the zone files and the named.conf, made a couple of changes to the DHCP and resolv.conf files and had the DNS running on another machine. A workstation, to be precise. There's no clear cut definition between systems in Linux to what is a "server" platform and what is a "workstation" platform - they can quite easily be the both and the same.
Realism? I prefer Linux as well. I mean, the worst invention in modern computing history HAS to be the Registry idea. It's a convoluted mess that makes it almost impossible to find what you're looking for. I dread having to go near that thing.
Now I've used Linux continually for more than 6 months, I can honestly say how much easier I can do things. I'm also interested in learning, which is why I post questions on here (I mean - who knows EVERYTHING?). I'll not be switching back to Linux. this isn't a forum just for newbies, it's about the GNU/Linux OS in general.
James
AussieJohn
11-02-2003, 12:14 PM
Please everybody don't waste your valuable time answering this idiotic troller and others like him/her.
His/her post is almost written to a script. Because I flit from forum to forum in the Linux world, I recognise the same formula. It is script kiddie stuff similar to the virus writers and when you think about it , it is a kind of virus in that it seeks to destroy by pretending to be what it is not and doing it all in the name of free speech and considered argument.
They work to the age old formula :- "If you repeat a lie often enough then some people will start to think it is truth."
And please do not use the free speech argument back on me which is the first claim ALWAYS made by abusers of the truth (liars) and cheats. Honest people don't have to argue support for that right.
John
ozdream
11-02-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by AussieJohn
They work to the age old formula :- "If you repeat a lie often enough then some people will start to think it is truth." John
You mean If you "sell a lie long enough" it becomes windoZ :p
AussieJohn
11-02-2003, 01:43 PM
You've got it right ozdream.
Maybe thats because you're from Ozstralia too.
Cheers. John
hlrguy
11-02-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by u3mike
Whereas in windows....right now I'm downloading off edonkey, running my seti@home client, watching music videos, typing this, plus install linux on VMWare!
I checked your other posts and your userid is not a troll. You have tried to help others, but as mentioned, I personally have a VERY hard time believing that you are doing all that in parallel. That said, if you are still reading, the bogdown is likely due to, as mentioned, incorrect or unoptimized hard drive access and/or the generic video driver. Unfortunatly, while the reverse engineers drivers work fine, their performance lacks, and that would easily explain why KDE (especially with eye candy on) or watching a movie in Linux would use 100% of the CPU. Having the ndivia optimized drivers, I honestly can't slow my system down. Ogg playback, downloading, Mozilla, VNC, several DXPC accelerated windows, OO, (I am always connected: telecommute), etc is always situation normal for me. I NEVER, EVER, have to think, hmmm, I want to burn a CD, play tuxracer, etc and think I should close 2-10 of my open apps.
Mileage varies, but there must be something hardware specific with your machine.
hlrguy
Nu-Bee
11-02-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by u3mike
Well, the subject says it. Can anyone here convince me to use Linux on my desktop pc.
No.
Isn't free choice a beautiful thing?
rid3r
11-02-2003, 07:55 PM
Just a screenshot, running xine, setiathome, mpg321, mozilla, compiling kernel at the same time :D
bosox79
11-02-2003, 08:16 PM
I think the anwser to this question really depends on what you use your computer for. If Linux does not suit your needs at this time then you are free not to use it or do like I do dual boot although I spend 90% of my time in linux:)
others have alredy given anwsers about why you are having performance issues. If windows works for you better at this point in time then by all mean's fee free to use it. we will still be here :D
chatins
11-02-2003, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by rid3r
Just a screenshot, running xine, setiathome, mpg321, mozilla, compiling kernel at the same time
Steve Balmer - "is the code from a hacker in china, that makes a patch at 3am, of higher quality than that of an organized commercial process?"
I think we have our answer!
MartinB
11-02-2003, 09:36 PM
That appears to translate to something like:
"Is work that someone does for their own benefit, better than work that's done for someone elses?".
I think the answer to that is rather obvious. :)
Satanic Atheist
11-02-2003, 09:54 PM
The last few posts are off topic, but anyone who does what is requested is a better man than the man who does what he requires.
This is why the Linux community exists.
James
ehawk
11-02-2003, 10:54 PM
If you're comfortable with Windows, you can always run all the nice software normally associated with Linux while keeping your desktop.
http://gnuwin.epfl.ch/apps/en/index.html
They have emacs and vim, the GIMP, compilers for all the major programming languages, browsers, Apache, MySQL, LaTeX stuff, Octave, OpenOffice, GPG, Putty and OpenSSH, and a bunch of other stuff.
They even have CygWin (linux command line within Windows). I have a friend using it, and he seems to like it.
u3mike
11-04-2003, 03:01 PM
Hey, thanks for all the replies. And no I'm not pulling your leg.
I currently run linux on a small server, and then a second pc which I rarely use anyway. This other pc is a Duron 1.2GHz with 192MB pc100 ram. WindowsXP is unbearable on it! Its my newer system that xp seems to win. Its a 2200+(oc'ed by 250Mhz) with 768MB DDR ram. I was just hoping this wasn't the case for everyone. For now I'm going to try out gentoo linux which might be a little faster seeing how everything has to be compiled according to your system. If that fails I'll probally be back once the new kernel finishes up :D
LinuxNoobee
01-09-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by u3mike
None seem to offer the performance of windows. It seems slow and bloated(esspecially using KDE).
Do yourself and us a favor.
go install Gentoo.
You'll be drooling at the power of linux.
and
you'll learn a thing or two.
also, I havent tried 2.6 out yet but I hear its got some scheduling improvements so that and plus people say its faster.
space_cowboy
01-09-2004, 12:48 PM
Yeah dude Gentoo 0wnz j00! Windows sucks huge monkey balls compared to the power of my Gentoo box! I currently run a Dual Athlon MP 1.2Ghz machine with 256M RAM, 80Gb harddrive and GeForce FX 5200 video. I'm running the 2.6.0 kernel and have not run into any problems at all. I can play Wolfenstein Enemy Territory while streaming mp3s and downloading a few files using bittorrent. It's friggin sweet! I have a screenshot too just so you can see how sweet it is.
Originally posted by space_cowboy
Yeah dude Gentoo 0wnz j00! Windows sucks huge monkey balls compared to the power of my Gentoo box! I currently run a Dual Athlon MP 1.2Ghz machine with 256M RAM, 80Gb harddrive and GeForce FX 5200 video. I'm running the 2.6.0 kernel and have not run into any problems at all. I can play Wolfenstein Enemy Territory while streaming mp3s and downloading a few files using bittorrent. It's friggin sweet! I have a screenshot too just so you can see how sweet it is.
The only thing sweet about your snapshot is the hot babe. well, okay so gentoo is sweet but the babe is sweeter.
AndrewLubinus89
01-10-2004, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Anomaly
WM of choice
Fluxbox. Easy to use, LIGHTNING fast, Something much more cleaner then standard 1/4 screen of blotty panel at the bottom. Oh so cool looking!
Oh yeah flux is so nice. I love tabbed windows and I make the bottom tool bar autohide so it doesn't block up my screen but I can still minimize stuff to it and get the time when I need to. Hey even kde can get rid of the toolbar by pressing the button on the side. Unfortunately the autohide in xp stinks (everytime I try to resize my window it pops up).
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