idea for rpm dependancy hell

[DFo3D]

Why not have a centralized meta-server for most rpm's (and for uh....less legit software be able to set an alternative metaserver heheh) to connect to and then download rpms by their dependencies as well?

For example, you have funkynewlibpackage-2.4.6.8.2.3.0000003.21.rpm and when you try to install it only to find it requires package X, and rather than go hunt down specific version of package X to coincide with the abovenamed package have the rpm installer automatically connect to the main server, obtain a list of dependancies for the package, and then a list of mirrors for the not currently installed packages and/or updated versions of that package so as to properly install and then be done with it?

Does anyone know if this is the direction that Redhat wants to take?

After working with portage for a little while, this does not seem inconceivable. Why not? I'm sure someone will want to host some mirrors for such a thing, plus it would attract users like flies on ****.

Gone would be the horrible hassle of "Oh crap, I tried to install abcd because it required about 8 packages that I forgot to install, and now I need to find those packages and match them up with the right versions of the dependancies"

I understand Mandrake kind of has something like this, and for suse you can just install apt-get.

However, I think a unified infrastructure like this would only benefit all involved rpm supporting vendors. Heck, even Gentoo users would appreciate it for packages not in the portage tree.

What do y'all think?

[Nu-Bee]

I take it you've never heard of Apt-Get or URPMI...

[DFo3D]

URPMI sucks

apt-get doesn't work for redhat or mandrake

[Drago]

Originally posted by Nu-Bee
I take it you've never heard of Apt-Get or URPMI...
Exactly what i was thinking.
Also there's a port of apt for redhat, which uses rpm's. See http://apt.freshrpms.net/

[APwrs]

Actually I don't think urpmi sucks, it works just fine for me.

[fredg]

Originally posted by DFo3D
URPMI sucks

apt-get doesn't work for redhat or mandrake

Funny, I've been using apt-rpm for Red Hat since 7.3. And all distributions thru 9 and even Rawhide, Fedora, and specialty packagers are covered by it.

If you don't like apt, there's also yum.

Oh well, now that these secrets are out, so much for dependency hell.

[DFo3D]

Yum is nice, but the servers have to be "yummified"

I was under the impression apt didn't work on RH, mea culpa.

[mart_man00]

I wish Redhat would make something apt like.

It would be nice and we would know it will be supported/update by the right people. Plus it would make everything so much easier...

[fredg]

Originally posted by DFo3D
Yum is nice, but the servers have to be "yummified"

I was under the impression apt didn't work on RH, mea culpa.

yum is no different than apt as far as servers go. Someone has to run and maintain the repository.

[fredg]

Originally posted by mart_man00
I wish Redhat would make something apt like.

It would be nice and we would know it will be supported/update by the right people. Plus it would make everything so much easier...

Well, that's not a problem. Others track the Red Hat ftp servers for any updated packages and just update their apt and yum repositories as needed. I've never seen the ones I use be more than 12 hours behind Red Hat. It's all handled automatically by scripts, so the concept of "the right people" really isn't even meaningful. You could do it yourself, the HOWTO is published.

Also, Fedora, where the freebie Red Hat thing is going, is already apt capable and has its own repository running.

Nothing really new here folks, it's been happening for quite some time. And there are numerous other folks getting into the act too. All the perl modules you could ever need are available as RPMs via apt, among others such as really decent KDE RPMs for Red Hat.

[Nu-Bee]

Originally posted by DFo3D
URPMI sucks

apt-get doesn't work for redhat or mandrake

Wrong...and:

Wrong.

URPMI works fine, and there has been an Apt-Get for Mandrake or Red Hat for a long time.

Ignorance is not bad in itself, but ignorance coupled with an asinine attitude is stupidity.

...figure it out yourself.

[SDS]

Forgot to mention Portage? Yeah, there are lots of good app managers. Anyways, I tended to avoid the RPMs when I used Mandrake. I mean, I always had dependency hell and didn't necessarily where to go from there. So, I went with the source and the configuration picked up the dependencies, and I'd google for the source. Not too painful. Of course, it easier to type app-get foo or emerge foo. Gentoo is a very good distro when you can get your bootflags right so you can compile everything. I mean, once you set up Gentoo, it's one of the easiest systems to maintain up-to-date software.

[DFo3D]

apt makes URPMI look ridiculous.

I have tried several times with URPMI, now some packages seem to go ok, the simpler ones ie hot-babe and the like. When you get into updating components such as xfree or KDE it's almost useless. Say you run into an app that wants libxml2 it won't correctly resolve the dependancies half the time or the wrong package version is listed in the urpmi mirrors.

Hashing is also horrible in URPMI, considering I have seen corrupted packages come from a single download source.

Still, updating via urpmi is a nightmare, apt sch00ls URPMI in every possible way.

apt is very suitable for updating core components. I have successfully updated KDE in Suse flawlessly.

Redhat is just...well....Redhat.

However, I wasn't aware of apt being usable in RH. Fedora also looks very promising. Fedora is primarily interesting in that you can get things like the latest beta kernel through it and such.

[APwrs]

As I said before, I've never had a single problem with urpmi. I've used it to isntall new software and update software many times, and have never had a problem. The files have always been clean and proper, and there has never been a problem with incorrect version numbers or dependencies. Some people do have problems with the simplest of tools, but urpmi has always worked just like it should for me.

[l01yuk]

fredg: Any chance of you posting your sources.list?
I could do with knowing more places than the default to look.

Thank you

l01yuk

[fredg]

Sure, below are for my Red Hat 7.3 box. Also, here is a link for some other Red Hat repositories.

http://freshrpms.net/apt/repositories.html

Note kde-redhat is for that project's flavor of KDE. Don't use it if you have Red Hat's or another KDE.


---------------------------sources.list-----------------------

# RPMPan
rpm http://www.quantumlinux.com/ rpmpan rpmpan

# freshrpms Red Hat Linux 7.3
rpm http://ayo.freshrpms.net/ redhat/7.3/i386 freshrpms

# kde-redhat repository(s) for Red Hat 7.3
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/fedora/ 7.3 stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/fedora/ all stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/kde-redhat/ 7.3 stable
rpm ftp://apt.kde-redhat.org/apt/kde-redhat/ all stable

# Red Hat Linux 7.3

# freshrpms (preferred, since it includes all of rh73,rh80,rh9)
rpm http://ayo.freshrpms.net/ redhat/7.3/i386 os updates

[do_guh_new]

I've been using redhat for years now and I still run redhat on my main workstation and I've never had all these rpm problems that people have always complained about.. I still can't understand how "dependency hell" is even an issue at all anymore, I mean c'mon we got apt,urpmi,yum,red-carpet, I mean seriously isnt this ancient rpm argument a bit dead and obsolete.

[APwrs]

You'd certainly think so.

[GigaShadow]

I am running mdk 9.1 and have not encountered much diffulty with dependancies and URPMI. However, I have recently installed Source Mage (Gentoo was gonna be first but I could not resist the thought of "casting spells"!! <bg>) and have no dependancy problems whatsoever. While I will not give up mdk, I do find that Source Mage seems to have No dependancy issues. :)

G

[Anomaly]

Debian + Apt-get + Kpackage = GOD of all updaters/installers!

I think RH.. One of the best/Most used Mainstream distro should follow debian's footsteps.


A fully configured Debain system is easier then any version of windows that ever came out.
(That is.. if you know basic stuff around linux)

[APwrs]

I was taking a look at Fedora today, and it said that the latest version of Red Hat's update tool (up2date) uses apt and yum servers to do its thing.

[carbon-12]

Slackware 9.1 + Swaret
is good enough for me. IMO its better than apt-get!


http://www.swaret.org/index.php

[-wassup-]

is it possible to use these apt for rh rpms for other rpm based distros such as suse or the new slack?

[Nu-Bee]

Originally posted by -wassup-
is it possible to use these apt for rh rpms for other rpm based distros such as suse or the new slack?

Differnt distros place files in different directories, you are taking a coin toss chance if they will work or not.