OpenSource Community can create an OS, what about a cutting edge high-risk game? [Archive]

DFo3D

10-28-2003, 04:44 PM

11/25/03

The nature of this topic has changed, drastically. What started off as a simple question, such as "Why not?" has become serious. More and more people come forward very frequently (every day the last 4 days). So, without further adieu, I am editing this thread to move the project into a home.

The homepage is http://www.freewebs.com/high-risk

We have a forum, an IRC channel, and a blog. Here is a description of the project currently code-named High-Risk:

We're talking fragment shaders in GL, OpenAL surround support, epic storyline, epic storytelling gameplay, motion physics, state of the art AI, and graphic vistas of level design.

Does anyone think that there is enough passion to start, sustain, and follow through for such a project?

Personally, given the talent I've seen what if folks like Tim Sweeney, icculus, and Carmack were to get involved? Is that plausible?
What genius 3D programmers have enough passion for this? What artists have passion? What about modellers?

Is any of it possible?

If anyone knows of anything like this, let me know, I want to contribute!
3D programmer here...

[edit 11-23-03]
Apparently this sparked interest! I am listing those who have come forward right here. I guess this will be the forum to discuss things until we have coordinated an avenue of privacy to flesh out story/script details until the game is finished.

BaVinic - Site host
mage492 - mirror/admin
maje87c - 3D modelling
MorphiusFaydal - potentially a level designer (status not certain)
noctec - programming
razzage - webmaster
The Linux Kid - webmaster, documentation, testing

Necessities - Social Contract, website, Storyline, genre decision, technology decision, programming/tooling, content creation (characters, environment fleshouts), textures/level design, modelling, AI.

A more thorough timeline will be created as needed. Very soon though we should get a webhost and get serious about this. Keep in mind, if enough want to contribute, the project will flourish, if not it will die out and follow the rightful course of OSS. It's all about what we want, and how bad.

edit 11/25/03]
Details on who is doing what will now be localized at the homepage. If you want to contribute, send me an email markj@nctelecom.net or show up on the forums at our homepage!

MorphiusFaydal

10-28-2003, 04:58 PM

I would say get allthe guys at Ion Storm, Legend Entertainment, Epic Games, Digital Extremes, VALVe, Gearbox, and Bungie to work togehter and make an open-source game..

really, there really isnt much hope of getting a game like you describe built in open source and distributed. it just takes too much time and energy to make such a game, and by that time, you will probably want to make some money out of it, and what better way to do that than to licence out your gmae engine and ask for lotsa cash..

i might be wrong..

but i wouldnt get my hopes up..

Chris

EDIT: obviously, i am wrong...

Okay, for all you people that are just readin this: our website is http://highrisk-game.sourceforge.net
the forums are linked to from here

the name of our project is Project: High Risk. that is the final name (we hope)

we are making our own engine, and we are calling it KISS

maccorin is the lead developer and head of the coding dept.

our IRC channel is on irc.freenode.net, #highrisk-game, this is where most of our discussions go on.

seoushi is in charge of the webpage

um...

oh.. we need volunteers to help us in just about every department (writing, art, coding, sound, web) well.. writing and web dont really need any help.. but the rest of us do..

well.. thats the project as of February 17, 2004

come check us out! :D

Chris

BaVinic

10-28-2003, 05:16 PM

Personally I like the idea, but what you should do, is start your own project, create the concept, write the first draft of a script for the game, some story boards would be kewl ( even hand drawn and scanned in) outline the plot, come up with ideas for charactors, settings, etc. create all this, show the Open Source community that you are serious about it, and have given it a lot of thought, and planning, and I bet a lot of programmers, graphic artisit, music writers etc would join the project. but as far as I know, there is nothing like this happening right now.

I would be willing to join in, I can even host the site if needed ( although getting it on Sourceforge would net you more contacts) but let me know.

BaVinic

DFo3D

10-28-2003, 05:19 PM

On a company level I wouldn't want, nor expect anyone to get involved, but on a strictly personal volunteer basis.

Surely there must be a willing group out there, that can even take advantage of an open source 3D engine.

Look at the whole mod scene. Plus, this could turn into a type of consortium, what pro game developer won't want to take someone who had alot of influence and demonstrated his/her talent on such a project?

[edit]
Novel idea? YES!

Too utopian and unrealistic....unfortunately yes as well.

But I would like to ask if anyone is interested in such a project. It is not the final product that matters, but the journey making it is as I see it.

JamminJoeyB

10-28-2003, 05:20 PM

OK, I think something like this sort of exists. I came across something called The Guild on another linux site. http://theguild.linuxgames.com/

Maybe this is what you are looking for.

mage492

10-28-2003, 05:26 PM

I AM interested in helping, but there really aren't any ways in which I could contribute. I know someone who might be interested in doing a storyline (she used to work for a small game company), but the high-end graphics, sound, etc. would all be over my head. The best I could probably do would be to mirror the site, downloads, etc. If you need help on that kind of stuff, though, I'd be happy to!

When I see her next, though, I'd be more than happy to talk to her about it. What kind of a game would this be? RPG, FPS, Platform, Flight simulator? (My vote goes to RPG, personally, but I'll leave that up to the prople who know what they're doing.)

As MorphiusFaydal mentioned, you're going to have to look for programmers who would want to put that much work into an open-source project, but I'm sure they're out there! (After all, Linus got the ball rolling on a whole open-source kernel!)

I'm not sure you could get any interest out of programmers from major companies, but try getting hobby-programmers. You want people who aren't really looking to make a massive profit. As mentioned, I'll help where I can, and I'll see about someone to do storyline (though I have to know what genre of game this would be, first).

DFo3D

10-28-2003, 05:41 PM

Yeah I know what you mean. Funny thing is, of the coveted talent Microsoft was suppose to have, hobbyists totally sch00led them on security and functionality.

A project like this has to be feasible with a few hundred people contributing to it. Everything from high level programming to voice acting.

Also, to web hosting (thanks mage, RPG? who knows, as long as its alot of fun is what counts!)

I know OpenGL fairly well, I use to program some driver functions on nVidia drivers back when I worked for CreativeLabs (I was part of the team that created the stencil shaders patch for Unreal and eventually Creative's Unified driver (glide wrapper)

maje87c

11-01-2003, 09:03 AM

I'd love to help but I know very little code(some perl, some html). I could write and/or do concept art though. Also, if you know of any good open source modelling programs that work in windows(and linux), I could do 3d modeling.

DFo3D

11-11-2003, 02:24 PM

It seems people are not adverse to trying.

I just wonder how to get the right people's attention.

So far, I have gotten some folks attention.

MorphiusFaydal

11-11-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by maje87c
I'd love to help but I know very little code(some perl, some html). I could write and/or do concept art though. Also, if you know of any good open source modelling programs that work in windows(and linux), I could do 3d modeling.

Blender (http://www.blender3d.org) Linux-PPC&x86, Windows, FreeBSD, Mac OSX, Solaris...

its a pretty good modeling program, but i dont know if its open source.. its free though...

yeah..

If i had any skills that could help with a game, i would gladly help out, but unfortunatly, except for some simple UnrealED 1,2 and 3 skills, i dont have any skills...

Still.. if you do get such a project going, good luck on it, and uh, post the website for it here, i would love to watch the development process and who knows? i may eventually have something to contribute.. :D:D

yeah..

again, GOOD LUCK!!

Chris

DFo3D

11-11-2003, 05:05 PM

Just ideas at this point.

Maybe I will put up a website.....

Icarus

11-11-2003, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by MorphiusFaydal
I would say get allthe guys at Ion Storm, Legend Entertainment, Epic Games, Digital Extremes, VALVe, Gearbox, and Bungie to work togehter and make an open-source game.. CliffyB, Warren Spector and John Carmack working on the same game...*drool* :p

If you need a writer, I'll write down the next dream I have...they have been REALLY weird lately!
Something in my coffee?

Feel free to use the forum on my site if you'd like...otherwise I'll be removing it
I guess a direct link would help (http://paradoxinc.net/cgi-bin/plugins/BBS/paradox_vortex_ubb/Ultimate.cgi)

DFo3D

11-11-2003, 05:48 PM

JohnC and Cliff working on the same game would be kind of odd. I think they would clash horribly...both egos are too huge.

noctec

11-17-2003, 04:47 AM

I would love to help. I've worked on a few mods for unreal tounament (starcraftUT) got shut down by blizzard and also hunters for jedi knight 2 but it got shut down as well. I'm not all that great of a programmer but am pretty fluent in C++.

mrBen

11-17-2003, 07:19 AM

Don't forget Cube (http://wouter.fov120.com/cube/) , the open source first person shooter engine.

Looks nice :)

razzage

11-17-2003, 09:22 AM

My name is Raz and i would like to help contribute.

I am not adept at game development, but as a gaming enthusiast and skilled webmaster i'd be willing to help contribute in other ways.
e-mail is jedigam3r@hotmail.com

count me in.

Raz

hydan

11-21-2003, 02:40 AM

Does anyone think that there is enough passion to start, sustain, and follow through for such a project?

The answer is yes.

Check out these 15 awesome open source games developed for linux:

Tux Racer (http://www.tuxracer.com/)
Racer (http://www.racer.nl/)
PlaneShift (http://www.planeshift.it/)
Dark Places (http://www.icculus.org/twilight/darkplaces/)
Arkanae (http://happypenguin.org/show?Arkanae)
Asteroid Arena (http://www.gla55pak.com/lameduckie/02june/asteroidarena/)
Arkhart (http://arkhart.nekeme.net/en/)
Boson (http://boson.eu.org/)
Daimonin (http://daimonin.sourceforge.net/)
Scorched 3D (http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/)
Mistlands (http://happypenguin.org/show?Mistlands)
Transfusion (http://www.planetblood.com/qblood/)
Dungeon Game (http://tempusmud.com/~jwatson/sdl-dg/)
Alteria (http://www.planetquake.com/cor/omen/)
Open Quartz (http://openquartz.sourceforge.net/)

I found everyone of these except for Open Quartz at the Linux Game Tome; for you game developers, I found Free Game Arts (http://www.planetquake.com/gg/).

Enjoy!

Rommani

11-21-2003, 03:25 AM

You sould also check Crystal Space 3D SDK (http://sourceforge.net/projects/crystal/). There's your engine :D

hydan

11-21-2003, 03:37 AM

Racer and PlaneShift seem to be the open source projects that might get some Windows gamers to switch to linux. After all, you can play most Windows games on linux, plus a whole lot more. Being able to create awesome looking cars in Racer is very appealing!

dboyer

11-21-2003, 04:09 AM

I'm going to postulate that a top down heirarchy would work better with a creative project like a game... with something like an OS, everyone has a job, and a goal... and there are certain functionalities everyone knows need to be implemented... with something creative, i think there is a lot of room for argumentation... i suspect that a game built through OSS would end up forking so much nothing would get done :-)

if you had a strong leader tho, i suppose a cooperative team could get something done...

and, following that, if the "everyone sees something different that could be done" doesn't end with the group breaking up, i could see so many awesome features implemented, the game would be jawdropping...

DFo3D

11-24-2003, 02:18 AM

Well, here's where this is at (if this is an it, or whatever)

A social contract, a general idea and/or storyline needs to be fleshed out. Everything needs to go around it. We need to use our imagination, set it as high as we want it to go, then work on making that vision possible.

For inspiration, what about earlier games did you like, and what did you hate that they left out the most?

This is where the ideas come from, what hasn't been done yet that we all want?
Don't say it's all been done, because game devs find a way to make that happen, and those are always the ones who make it big. We all know how motivating greed can be, but we also know that passion motivates far more, and captivates far more.

Just to kick that discussion off, what I found missing in Halo, Deus Ex, and HalfLife was a true connection to the characters. How can we move a person to be connected with the universe? Deus Ex came closest I would think. I also want to see a fleshed out story that is more than a conspiracy.

To create an entropy of sorts, would be a way to create a sense of loss with developed characters, as to move a person would be a place to start. Just an idea of mine is to look at what would happen if our solar system had a killswitch put on it, and it's up to player to figure out what to do about it, with only him and a select few knowing about it by accident. What would FEMA do if they realized our sun was going to turn into a red giant and consume Earth's orbit in 15 years?

The Linux Kid

11-24-2003, 02:37 AM

If you need some documentation or another webmaster, count me in! (i can also test for you)

I like fast paced action thrillers like CounterStrike etc. I really hate the basic map packs for CounterStrike, so make sure the maps are good.

If anyone needs to contact me privatly, don't PM me, I never bother looking. My e-mail (checked daily) is:

thelinuxkid@tpj.cjb.net

hydan

11-24-2003, 12:30 PM

Count me in as well.

Judging from the games that have been mentioned,
the game's genre looks to be an action adventure game, which sounds right up my ally!

The best thing I like about computer games are the stories. I imagine a computer game almost like a movie, I want a good story, or else I loose interest quick. A lot of twists make stories great. For instance, something takes place early, and then something else takes place later that really throws a loop into the story, and something unimaginable happens at the end.

Coming from DFo3D's original post, I say we give this project a code name, 'High Risk' anyone?

tom56

11-24-2003, 01:01 PM

The three most important things to making a popular game would be:

Online play
Windows, Linux, and (if you can) Mac compatible. Windows compatibility is a must if it is online, otherwise there wouldn't be enough people playing to make it good online.
Decide whether it is an multiplayer game with single player function, a single player game with multiplayer function, or a multiplayer only game, early on, as this will majorly effect how the game would have to be designed and programmed.

amgeex

11-24-2003, 01:05 PM

Count me in, I don't know what I can help on, but maybe something will come up. Maybe just passing the word from mouth to mouth... Or should I say, keyboard to keyboard?

:p

hydan

11-24-2003, 02:10 PM

I choose single player and multiplayer game. What does everyone else think?

Some things to focus on for the:
single player mode: great story.
multiplayer mode: customization.
Overall game: bug-free; easy to learn, but hard to master.

Can anyone think of some more things to focus on?

DFo3D

11-24-2003, 02:12 PM

I think that the saturation of multiplayer focused games is pretty high. I personally wouldn't want another one. However rich SP games seem to be limited lately.

vader89

11-24-2003, 02:15 PM

I think the game shouldn't be all too gorey either....
keep it within the 'T for teen' area ... O.K? :rolleyes:

planeman22

11-24-2003, 02:16 PM

I would definitely be interested in helping. All my experience has been in writing database apps and control systems programs (using Delphi and C++) for the company I work for but I would like to broaden my horizons some and program something that doesn't put me to sleep. I am fluent in C++ and have some knowledge of OpenGL (although I've never really used it for anything). I love simulators, and first person shooters but will program anything. Let me know if I can help... My email is warbuff20@cinci.rr.com

vader89

11-24-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by DFo3D
I think that the saturation of multiplayer focused games is pretty high. I personally wouldn't want another one. However rich SP games seem to be limited lately.

I second that! My "linux" computer doesn't have an internet connection.... but it has a pretty good GFX card... but all these cool games seem to always be online!!:mad:

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 02:21 PM

I would say 3d FPS with a amazing storline in single player, and excellent maps in multiplayer

as soon as i can get some time to learn, im gonna teach myself some practical C/C++ and OpenGL, along w/ about 5 other thing languages..

SO... ill help.. i just wont be able to do any coding in the beginning..

PM me or email me.. morphius_faydal 'at' myrealbox.com

Chris

hydan

11-24-2003, 05:28 PM

BaVinic - Site host
mage492 - mirror/admin
maje87c - 3D modelling
MorphiusFaydal - potentially a level designer (status not certain)
noctec - programming
razzage - webmaster
The Linux Kid - webmaster, documentation, testing

other positions available:
producer
director
content supervisor
artists
animator
world designer(s)
game designer(s)
software engineer(s)
music editor/sound designer
programmers
writer

Did I miss anything?

We need to decide on a game engine to use. Also, I propose we get an IRC channel started so we can discuss some of these subjects.

I'm so excited about this project!

Floog

11-24-2003, 06:11 PM

I'm of no help with game programming or most any programming. But dude, I'm so envious of the dual Opteron setup.

Analogy:

Duff Beer is to Homer Simpson, as Dual Opteron processors are to Floog.

mmmm......Opterons......mmmm......two of dem.

Floog

DFo3D Specs:
Dually Opteron 246's
1GB DDRDRAM (400)
OS - Gentoo 1.4 KDE 2.6 test9 64-bit kernel

hydan

11-24-2003, 06:33 PM

I have an idea for the story. The story can almost parralel the linux vs. M$ battle, almost like a David and Goliath story.

Just brain storming here:
Near impossible odds, but the character(s) do remakable things to beat them.
SCO(obviously wouldn't use the names of these corporations) could be the obvious crooks(aka pesks) to everyobody in the game universe, but little does everyoone know that the mega corporation M$ is tied in w/ SCO.
The main character(s) would be out to defeat those companies and reveal the truth to the rest of the world.

DFo3D

11-24-2003, 08:22 PM

I like the IRC idea.

This project just may yet happen. I'm going to get into a few IRC's with some devs and drop the idea. I'm good friends with Alexander Brandon of EpicGames (I've worked with him on a couple things) and see if he wants to contribute.

He did the menu music for DX2.

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by hydan
We need to decide on a game engine to use. Also, I propose we get an IRC channel started so we can discuss some of these subjects.

I'm so excited about this project!

im excited too!!

irc.freenode.net #highrisk-game anyone?

Originally posted by hydan
I have an idea for the story. The story can almost parralel the linux vs. M$ battle, almost like a David and Goliath story.

Just brain storming here:
Near impossible odds, but the character(s) do remakable things to beat them.
SCO(obviously wouldn't use the names of these corporations) could be the obvious crooks(aka pesks) to everyobody in the game universe, but little does everyoone know that the mega corporation M$ is tied in w/ SCO.
The main character(s) would be out to defeat those companies and reveal the truth to the rest of the world.

Microsoft is the big evil corporation, SCO is M$'s hired cronies, and the JLC members are the Linux crusaders, uncovering evil plots by Bill Gates to take over the world.

Something like the original Deus Ex...

yeah....

Chris

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by DFo3D
I like the IRC idea.

This project just may yet happen. I'm going to get into a few IRC's with some devs and drop the idea. I'm good friends with Alexander Brandon of EpicGames (I've worked with him on a couple things) and see if he wants to contribute.

He did the menu music for DX2.

do that..

i havnt heard the DX2 menu music.. i cant get the blasted demo to run on my video card.. (GF2 MX400 64MB).. so i ordered a new one friday night.. (GF FX 5200 256MB).. itll be here day after tommorow.. then i can play the demo..

Chris

amgeex

11-24-2003, 08:50 PM

Ok, I think that we should focus on the storyline as soon as we get the IRC channel set up. I offer myself to write it. Based on comments and suggestions from all of you geeks.

I could also translate the game storyline and overall texts to spanish.

the AMGeeX.

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 09:02 PM

ive got #highrisk-game up in my XChat session right now..

i am the only person on there right now.. so that makes me the mod :D:D i would register it.. but i dont know how..

amgeex: if you think you can right a good story.. i would say go for it..

Chris

hydan

11-24-2003, 09:09 PM

High Risk IRC channel (irc://irc.freenode.net/highrisk-game)

Thanks Morphius for getting the channel up!

amgeex

11-24-2003, 09:10 PM

Ok, I'll try to lay the bases for the story tonight. And maybe tomorrow I'll have something. I also have some stories that I never finished, gotta search for them, one is like Matrix/Ghost in the Shell like, and the other is like Diablo stuff, not to ripped off though. I'll set up a web page for those two and for the new one. Um, but first gotta find them....

:eek:

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 09:12 PM

i just ripped the DX2 music out of the demo..

IT ROCKS!!!!!

I LOVE IT!!!

If we can get music like this in our game.. oh heck yes...

Chris

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 09:16 PM

RIGHT

I have registered the IRC channel

irc.freenode.net
#highrisk-game

there you go...

come on down..

Chris

DFo3D

11-24-2003, 09:29 PM

I won't be able to come in until later on tonight, work and such.

I am kind of opposed to the whole MS thing, yet the concepts all sound cool. There needs to be more than just corporate fraud though.

Remember, an FPS usually means shooting, this needs to be based on principles worth dying and killing for. Linux and SCO type situations really aren't.

Yet, a massive heatwave, followed by farmers in a crisis from a lack of proper irrigation, and the governments all saying nothing is wrong but a long drought, when really our sun is a timebomb, sounds somewhat cooler.

Terrorist breakouts, terrorist organizations fighting the government for not telling the truth, stealing food bombing the WTO etc,

Just an idea, not too closely modelled after deus ex though. The principle behind Deus Ex was rather simple, control. A theme more oriented towards survival would be much more complicated.

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by DFo3D
I won't be able to come in until later on tonight, work and such.

I am kind of opposed to the whole MS thing, yet the concepts all sound cool. There needs to be more than just corporate fraud though.

Remember, an FPS usually means shooting, this needs to be based on principles worth dying and killing for. Linux and SCO type situations really aren't.

Yet, a massive heatwave, followed by farmers in a crisis from a lack of proper irrigation, and the governments all saying nothing is wrong but a long drought, when really our sun is a timebomb, sounds somewhat cooler.

Terrorist breakouts, terrorist organizations fighting the government for not telling the truth, stealing food bombing the WTO etc,

Just an idea, not too closely modelled after deus ex though. The principle behind Deus Ex was rather simple, control. A theme more oriented towards survival would be much more complicated.

thats what im going for.. a not too far in the future-set game in which Bill GAtes is angling to become dictator of the world.. corruption on a global, corporate scale..

terrorist.. definatly...

conspiracy theories... the more the better..

high-tech weapons... most certainly..

biomods? hows about not.. too close to DX..

cool stuff to do.. oh yeah..

but we need to figure out what we are doing first..

we need to get a forum of our own up somewhere.. so we arnt so dependant on the JLC forums..

Chris

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 09:50 PM

what does everybody think to using the Cystal Space 3D engine??

im just looking at it right now.. and it seems pretty nice..

unless we can find something better/right our own..

Chris

hydan

11-24-2003, 09:50 PM

I'm thinking yes to these ideas from DFo3D and Morphius: Terrorist breakouts, terrorist organizations fighting the government for not telling the truth,
A theme more oriented towards survival would be much more complicated.

corruption on a global, corporate scale..
terrorist.. definatly...
conspiracy theories... the more the better..
high-tech weapons... most certainly..

The big corporations wouldn't be named M$ and SCO. The player wouldn't be fighting for liscensing rights, but for something similar to what you mentioned DFo3D.

I can get us some forums up right now if you guys would like. They would be phpbb(just like these) instead of Invision though.

BaVinic, will your server be able to host forums?

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 09:53 PM

these forums are actually vBulletin, the Gentoo forums are phpBB2 though..

everybody.. go listen to the DX2 menu music..

DX2 Main Menu Music (http://www.wwwclan.de/SchemaMetafile_DVD3 001053.ogg) in .ogg format..

Chris

amgeex

11-24-2003, 09:57 PM

'bout to set up a blog for the storyline 'n stuff. I'll post in a while with the address.

hydan

11-24-2003, 10:03 PM

The Crystal Space 3d engine looks great! But, can it handle a FPS game?

amgeex

11-24-2003, 10:15 PM

I'd say we use the cube game engine, does a good job with FPS, and with a bit of tweaking, it could do wonders. As a plus, it has very efficient netcode for multiplayer sessions.

The blog is up at: this page (http://www.high-risk.motime.com/)

Will enhance it in a while.

Also, the Cube Game Engine page is at:
this page (http://wouter.fov120.com/cube/)

the AMGeeX (also Hellspawn on the blog).

DFo3D

11-24-2003, 10:17 PM

Technology wise I have a few concerns. Since there is only one equivalent to HLSL for Linux, that is cg.

I want to be able to use technology that lets me write custom shaders and potentially a back end for GeForceFX cards.

With Crystal Space, they appear to be just using stencil buffer shadows. This isn't as reliable as using the stencil buffer to just do vertex blending. If you do it that way, you can utilize the CPU/GPU combo to perform shadowing operations. This would help performace ALOT.

For example, in the combined CPU/GPU approach, the CPU does silhouette determination while the GPU does silhouette extrusion. The geometry is prepared so that each vertex used for shadow casting comes in 2 versions, one time as (x, y, z, 0) and another time as (x, y, z, 1). One of these will get projected away from the lightsource while the other ones remain unaltered. Exactly which version of the vertices gets projected, the ones with w = 0 or the ones with w = 1, is an arbitrary implementation choice. The task of the CPU is to write an index buffer that references the proper vertices to make up a shadow volume, a front cap, or a back cap.

I would ask the GPU to perform something like the following algorithm (properly coded with appropriate, but not sure so don't hold me to it
x' = x - lx
y' = y - ly
z' = z - lz
w' = 0

Then with a matrix reformulation you can selectively choose what transforms you can affect (the models polygons for instance) so that you know what eyespace you are dealing with.

I'm rambling on, but from what I've seen Crystal Space would need something like that added to it. In addition, I would also want to add some kind of reactive hair/limb system (kind of like ragdoll) but alot more fluidic and real looking. I am thinking of my primary example system to follow would be the soft body simulation principles as described here (http://panoramix.ift.uni.wroc.pl/%7emaq/eng/softbody.php) Crystal Space is great and all, but these are things to think of, they may be far fetched, but appropriate shadowing volumes, physics, body simulation (for that matter emotion simulation) are things to consider with the notion in mind development may be long and drawn out (heh, or rapid if enough interest arises ;)

What do you guys think though?

MorphiusFaydal

11-24-2003, 10:27 PM

Engine Stuff for Project: High Risk:
??

just say stuff..

and they get added..

Chris

amgeex

11-25-2003, 12:12 AM

Please, when the official page for Project: High Risk is up, please let me know so I can add it to the blog's link section.

planeman22

11-25-2003, 01:10 AM

Hey..here is one other possible engine to use. I've looked at it before and it seemed pretty capable and easier to understand than Crystal Space:

http://ogre.sourceforge.net/

Like I said before I would love to help code...I would like the experience of writing a game. I've tried starting on my own and can never get anywhere. Plus it sounds like you actually have good ideas for a story already.

roamingnomad

11-25-2003, 02:16 AM

I've had a really nice game idea if you're interested, been thinking "Hey, this would be a great open-source game" for ages.

Basically, the game is like a cross between a FPS and a racing sim. You (ideally) have 3-4 players, each with a specific role.

These four players are in a car.

One player is the driver of the car.... he just drives the car around.

The second role would be gunner. The gunner has a gun (surprise, surprise) and defends the car by firing at enemy vehicles. The interface for the gunner would be somewhat like the arcade game, Time Crises, where holding down the space bar would stick the player's head out the window, allowing him to fire, while releasing it would have the player withdraw into the car and close the door/roll up the window.

A third, optional role would be a commander/navigator, a guy with a map who would do as the name implies.

I also thought players could play multiple roles, etc.

What do you think?

In addition to game design, I can help with music and maybe modelling.

The Linux Kid

11-25-2003, 03:02 AM

Forgot to say that I can help with music. I may not be that good at it, but I have a MIDI keyboard and mixer etc.

I am very excited.

Also, I can't find the channel on irc!

The Linux Kid

2MT

11-25-2003, 03:20 AM

I did some voice work for a halflife mod.

I have a very flat matter of fact voice; it works well for commands IE radio comlink type stuff. or the computer voice.

amgeex

11-25-2003, 10:57 AM

The Prologue for the storyline is out on the blog, you might want to read it and comment on it. It has elements from all the comments here: BIg, greedy corporations, unusual Solar activity, a great catatstrophe, etc.

hydan

11-25-2003, 11:54 AM

Visit the High Risk (http://www.freewebs.com/high-risk/) temporary home page. I figure it will do good enough until one of the web gurus can come up w/ something spectacular. Thanks Morphius for making the image.

In my own little perfect game, I imagine levels from all over the world. Amgeex, in your storyline, it seems everything is wiped out, and only cities remain; no trees, or habitation. I would like a story that allowed the character to: visit snow,mountain, tropical forests/swamp, underwater levels, levels w/caves, or board a ship. I need some verifacation or correction from you, but I don't think your story allows the character to go to all of those type of places.

Twyst

11-25-2003, 12:11 PM

I'd love to help out with this project. I'm a decent programmer and crazy fast learner of all things computer related. I've also got some level design experience.

Here's my first contribution:

I always enjoyed games were it felt like the decisions I made as a player really affected the game world. I don't mean damaging building and leaving bullet holes in walls, but something like a faction system so that if you're working with the "Terrorists" and you repeatedly kill innocents that eventually terrosit contacts shun you are forced to progress through the game without access to the aid they would have provided. Also alternate storylines and endings based on the players style are great.

amgeex

11-25-2003, 12:34 PM

Ok, the storyline in the blog doesn't show ALL of the world I'm imaginig. Snowed mountains do exist, also airships which hover over water at high speeds exist as they are the main transport media. And be sure you'll get underwater levels,.

I'll write more in a while.

P.S. Who's hosting the temporary site?

hydan

11-25-2003, 12:43 PM

FreeWebs (http://www.freewebs.com) It's just a free web site hosting company, nobody specific yet.

Twyst

11-25-2003, 12:54 PM

I've got a little Apache server that I occasionally host my families and friends sites on if that could help out at all. It's currently hiding on a residential Cable modem that is "supposedly rated at 2mb down 128-256k up" . Anyway through the wonders of www.noip.com it doesn't matter how often the IP address changes server will still be there. Anyways just e-mail me at Jgoslin@bellsouth.net if I can help with the hosting at all.

oh yeah I also have a forum running there as well it's using phpBB, but obviously we've got the forum and blog angle covered.

jazzyjazz

11-25-2003, 01:50 PM

Hail :)

I just read the the whole thread and it's a nice idea :))

I'm already in your IRC channel :p

Tho i'm not a programmer i'm good at ideas and storyline so i would like to contribute in that way :)

Send me an email at jazzyjazz@clanefl.com if u'r interested or looking for another gut to work on the story :)

andermic

11-25-2003, 02:01 PM

My personal opinion on the game type is:

The story line seems good, but I'm thinking that on a weapon fighting basis try not to make guns that are just huge and blow everything away. And make the game not have cheats. I hate games that have cheats because then they loose the point and just go for god mode. Also, a final fantasy style RPG is where it's at I think. I love those games.

Anyway, I think this is a great idea. And I'll do whatever I can to help. I'm no good with programming because im just learning, but let me tell you, I have a wicked imagination. So i'll help think up the story line if theres room for another. I would love to be a part of something like this because i belive that it's going to be huge when it gets rolling.

jazzyjazz

11-25-2003, 02:09 PM

True that's the whole power of open-source thinking :)

Nowerdays games are just a repacking of old games and ideas put in a new shoebow and sold over not speaking of the never-ending sequels and movie transportation.

I think this can be a good startpoint to change this wave of games :)

vader89

11-25-2003, 02:40 PM

:D The "Project High Risk" Forum is here-->
http://h-r.fragism.com/gl-bin/forum/
HEAD ON OVER!

hydan

11-25-2003, 03:03 PM

The story line seems good, but I'm thinking that on a weapon fighting basis try not to make guns that are just huge and blow everything away.

Well, maybe we can make the big weapons have some type of disadvantage, such as a slow recall and not a lot of ammunition? We do need some big weapons in the game.

And make the game not have cheats. I hate games that have cheats because then they loose the point and just go for god mode.
In some games, I like cheats, but only if the players I'm playing against have them as well. In single player, after playing through a fps game, cheats are a must.

Also, a final fantasy style RPG is where it's at I think. I love those games.
I think everyone is leading toward an action adventure game. But that brings up an interesting point, should we have a vote to see what type of game we are going to have? This is an OS community project, shouldn't everyone have a say(vote)?

amgeex

11-25-2003, 03:14 PM

Here are the Official Links:

Blog: here (http://www.high-risk.motime.com)
HomePage:here (http://high-risk.net.co.nr/)
Forums: http://h-r.fragism.com/gl-bin/forum/

Check 'em out!

andermic

11-25-2003, 03:48 PM

I think a vote would be nice. could someone just start a thread with a vote on the different style games. we could have a one week deadline on the voting. that way the thread doesnt get huge for no reason, lol.

on a side note, i like the idea of "big guns" with disadvantages. And maybe for cheats (or helpers...) just make it so they aren't available online.... unless the server allows them.

I should porbably start using the real forum and not this one. lol.

any criticism on my ideas is more than welcomed.

vader89

11-25-2003, 03:52 PM

I've started a thread/poll on the High Risk Forums to decide what kind of game It should be..
http://h-r.fragism.com/gl-bin/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5
PLLLEEEEAAASSSSEE VOTE!:)

DFo3D

11-25-2003, 05:21 PM

Well, let's not get too ahead of ourselves. This has already been discussed, until we have had a real discussion with everyone present, I don't really want to see a decision on what type of genre we are working with.

hammer123

11-26-2003, 07:52 PM

I'm looking at this stuff and its exciting. I'd love to join. I can code and have some ideas

amgeex

11-28-2003, 07:47 PM

Want to check the storyline? It's right here (http://high-risk.net.co.nr).

Check it out!!! :cool:

lady1906

11-29-2003, 11:38 AM

Look at the success of counterstrike and the other Half Life mods. They were a success not due to advanced graphics or the like (although a base level would be needed), but just because they were free and fun. As time went on, Counterstrike improved noticeably, furthering the original features significantly. I think that any game should take the same sort of approach, start with something simple and playable along with an easy to use map editor. The unskilled community will create the maps, it will get progressively more popular as time goes on and the game develops and I'm sure people will be happy to upgrade quite often.

saturn-vk

11-29-2003, 06:20 PM

ok, i've sent word to DFo3D about what I can do, so I'm not gonna talk about that here. what I like to talk about is the story. And if it's not set in stone, I would like to share a possible story for a game, which you may or may not accept, or maybe just use bits of it.

Let's start from the begining. The story takes place in a city in the 20th century. No apocallypse, no death, no destruction, no nothing. Everything about the world is just fine and dandy. (how's that for a kicker). And you are (if we are talking about a single player game) a bum, basically, living on the streets, having some bum friends, and doing what bums regularly do.

That's all you know. And basically, that should be what the general audience should know about the story. The problem with many of today's games I think is that you know to much of the story before you play. You should learn the story as you go along, bringing bits and pieces together. And here's how it goes after you start playing.

Basically, the world is normal, just your average earth in the 20th century if we look at it from the outside. But we are talking about a massive hidden corruption, that is going to unfold before the player's eyes. And I'm not talking about a president of some unknown country, I'm talking about corruption to the highest seat of power: the god. Basically, it should all tie together with a basic philosophy that the god is as powerful as the number of followers it has. And since not many people nowadays believe in the god, he shouldn't be all that powerful. However, since most of the poeple wind up in hell, the devil should really be very powerful, and he should be ready to make his move. And if we make this game right, whatever the player does should affect the story. Something along the lines of Deus Ex, but it should generally affect whether you help the god return to his power, whether you help the devil, or whether you take power yourself.
Since I'm not a religious type, I don't know exactly how it goes, but lets just say that the player is a being like a fallen angel of some sort. But after he was cast from heaven, he doesn't remember anything. Now he is a bum, and he is living with his friends. At the begining of the game, one of his better friends dies, and there the story unfolds. The player should eventually find out what he was, he should find out about the state heaven and hell. And he should start making decisions. And of cource, all this should cover a lot of gameplay, and a lot of in-depth story.
Since it's midnight now, I probably don't type very clearly, but maybe you people can work on the details of the story. As far as the weapons go, there should be the regular weapons in the begining, like the melee weapons such as a bat, crowbar, pistol and the like. And after that when the players finds out what he was, and makes the necessary choices, picks a certain path and so on, he gains certain powers, so he can fights higher beings such as creatures from the heavens and from hell.
Basically, I'm talking about a game where you begin knowing nothing, and you wind up killed, or being a good being, such as god, or being an evil being such as the devil(after desposing of the previous devil of cource). So the endings should be something along the lines of:
- you are dead
- you help the god
- you become the god if you kill the previous god because he is corrupted/weak or the devil has won the war. (perhaps we can add here that the weak god has made some kind of a deal with the devil, which will ultimately cause the downfall of mankind).
- you help the devil
- you become the devil after killing him, for power.

but that is just my story. It's your call if you want to use it/part of it or not. Or if you want to use it, tell me so I can add some more details to it in the morning.

hydan

11-29-2003, 07:22 PM

I think this story should keep away from anything religous. When you start to deal w/ religion, that's when things can get harry; people can get offended real easily when something is not how they believe.

saturn-vk

11-29-2003, 08:29 PM

messiah didn't sell that bad, did it?

yeah, and that's the problem with some people and religion, they just cannot take the heat, but that's a whole other story.

but anyway, can't we create something different, like a non-existing religion (populous did it), or don't involve it at all, but still have the basic fundamental ideas, like having to choose between good and evil, being good or evil, different endings, rpg type (like DX), and so on and forth (personally, i think dungeon keeper did it bet, although it only covered the evil side :)). And most importantly:
Gradually unfolding the story, not slamming it in the face at the begining, like 99% of all games out there. The player should know as little as possible in the begining. This of course leads to the next one:
Controversy++: the player shouldn't know what hit him. And lastly:
Can we make it in a world that is not post-apocalyptic, like 99.9% of all games out there? How about a somewhat pieceful 30th century, at least on the outside.

hydan

11-29-2003, 09:23 PM

I like all of these ideas of yours:

different endings, rpg type (like DX)

Gradually unfolding the story, not slamming it in the face at the begining, like 99% of all games out there. The player should know as little as possible in the begining.

How about a somewhat pieceful 30th century, at least on the outside.

saturn-vk

11-30-2003, 05:41 AM

woops, a slight mistake there.

rpg like system shock 2, because as far as I can remember, DX only had an inventory (right?). We should include skills and stuff like in system shock 2.

saturn-vk

11-30-2003, 07:11 AM

and as far as engines go, we can basically use an existing OS engine, and modify it by adding vertex and pixel shaders and the latest and greatest ogl support.

we can use crystal space

or we can use openscenegraph:
http://openscenegraph.sourceforge.net/
(check out the screenshots of that thing, especially for the game frontier.

Trogdor

02-02-2004, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by saturn-vk
and as far as engines go, we can basically use an existing OS engine, and modify it by adding vertex and pixel shaders and the latest and greatest ogl support.

we can use crystal space

or we can use openscenegraph:
http://openscenegraph.sourceforge.net/
(check out the screenshots of that thing, especially for the game frontier.

Crystal Space is nice to develop with, but really slow. We are making our own engine from scratch. I urge everyone interested to join the forums.

MorphiusFaydal

02-02-2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Trogdor
I urge everyone interested to join the forums.

yeah.. sign up at the forums..

but all the REAL action is in the IRC channel.. irc.freenode.net #highrisk-game

chris

bandwidth_pig

02-07-2004, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by saturn-vk
ok, i've sent word to DFo3D about what I can do, so I'm not gonna talk about that here. what I like to talk about is the story. And if it's not set in stone, I would like to share a possible story for a game, which you may or may not accept, or maybe just use bits of it.

Let's start from the begining. The story takes place in a city in the 20th century. No apocallypse, no death, no destruction, no nothing. Everything about the world is just fine and dandy. (how's that for a kicker). And you are (if we are talking about a single player game) a bum, basically, living on the streets, having some bum friends, and doing what bums regularly do.

That's all you know. And basically, that should be what the general audience should know about the story. The problem with many of today's games I think is that you know to much of the story before you play. You should learn the story as you go along, bringing bits and pieces together. And here's how it goes after you start playing.

I think your idea sounds real interesting. The storyline listed on the site for the game left me a little sleepy to be honest.

timothykaine

02-09-2004, 05:33 PM

Bungie is MS, fat chance. :P

Originally posted by MorphiusFaydal
I would say get allthe guys at Ion Storm, Legend Entertainment, Epic Games, Digital Extremes, VALVe, Gearbox, and Bungie to work togehter and make an open-source game..

really, there really isnt much hope of getting a game like you describe built in open source and distributed. it just takes too much time and energy to make such a game, and by that time, you will probably want to make some money out of it, and what better way to do that than to licence out your gmae engine and ask for lotsa cash..

i might be wrong..

but i wouldnt get my hopes up..

Chris

MorphiusFaydal

02-09-2004, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by bandwidth_pig
I think your idea sounds real interesting. The storyline listed on the site for the game left me a little sleepy to be honest.

that story is old, very old...

the story is being completely redone by our head-writer, cudaman73, and when its ready for public unveiling.. it shall be posted on the website and forums..

timothykaine: i can dream, cant i? :D

Chris

Kirkus

02-17-2004, 07:11 PM

Hello, I'm working on an open source driving game/simulator called Motorsport. We've done a lot of research and we've decided to use OGRE as our graphics engine. We're using SDL for input and OpenAL is planned for sound. OpenDE is a great physics engine we're using for rigid body dynamics and collision detection.

The goal is to create a cross platform game using the latest and greatest Open Source tools that works similar to MS flight simulator but with highly accurate cars and tracks instead of planes and cities. It's strange that there are so many great open source middleware packages out there but I haven't seen a really mainstream game that makes use of all of them.

Check out our SourceForge page here http://sourceforge.net/projects/motorsport/ and our discussion forums here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=577, the developer diary here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=129135,
and we're usually hanging out in the chat room at irc.boomtown.net #motorsport

If you or someone you know likes cars and are good at C++ we can really use your help. My hope is that this becomes the showcase for all of the best open source game middleware tools.

Trogdor

02-22-2004, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Kirkus
Hello, I'm working on an open source driving game/simulator called Motorsport. We've done a lot of research and we've decided to use OGRE as our graphics engine. We're using SDL for input and OpenAL is planned for sound. OpenDE is a great physics engine we're using for rigid body dynamics and collision detection.

The goal is to create a cross platform game using the latest and greatest Open Source tools that works similar to MS flight simulator but with highly accurate cars and tracks instead of planes and cities. It's strange that there are so many great open source middleware packages out there but I haven't seen a really mainstream game that makes use of all of them.

Check out our SourceForge page here http://sourceforge.net/projects/motorsport/ and our discussion forums here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/forumdisplay.php?f=577, the developer diary here http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=129135,
and we're usually hanging out in the chat room at irc.boomtown.net #motorsport

If you or someone you know likes cars and are good at C++ we can really use your help. My hope is that this becomes the showcase for all of the best open source game middleware tools.

Nice 1st post. What does this have to do with Project: High-Risk, if I may ask?