Installs Terminate Unexpectedly

[terminal2k]

ok. I'm a real newbie and I'm having a little trouble installing any OS other than Windoze. I have had an Old copy of RedHat, Debain, and BeOS installed previously on this machine. Now I get unexpected terminations trying to install Red Hat 9, problems installing FreeBSD, Problems booting BeOS (I can actually install that from windoze) and strange crashes trying to install Lycoris Desktop/LX. I don't believe any of my hardware is completely dead (It all seems to work fine under windows), so I was wondering if there is any troubleshooting ideas that more experienced linux users have (No I haven't really tried anything, and would rather not have to try installing it with base hardware)

I've attatched a hardware info text file generated using a tool included on the Lycoris Desktop/LX Cd for further info (No I don't really know anything about the hardware myself, I never needed to before.) I haven't tried any other distros (I would have tried some others but I could only find 650meg cds)

Look forward to some helpful replies.

[bosox79]

Originally posted by terminal2k
ok. I'm a real newbie and I'm having a little trouble installing any OS other than Windoze. I have had an Old copy of RedHat, Debain, and BeOS installed previously on this machine. Now I get unexpected terminations trying to install Red Hat 9, problems installing FreeBSD, Problems booting BeOS (I can actually install that from windoze) and strange crashes trying to install Lycoris Desktop/LX. I don't believe any of my hardware is completely dead (It all seems to work fine under windows), so I was wondering if there is any troubleshooting ideas that more experienced linux users have (No I haven't really tried anything, and would rather not have to try installing it with base hardware)

I've attatched a hardware info text file generated using a tool included on the Lycoris Desktop/LX Cd for further info (No I don't really know anything about the hardware myself, I never needed to before.) I haven't tried any other distros (I would have tried some others but I could only find 650meg cds)

Look forward to some helpful replies.
at what point or points do the various installs fail? are you getting kernel panics? are you even able to start the installs? if you could give us more info like that it would be helpful! are you trying to install from iso's you have downloaded or are you using boxed sets?:)

[hard candy]

I think its your higher power showing you that whoever loves you the most needs to buy you a new computer. It looks like you have 64 MB Ram. Redhat9 needs 128 MB for an install with a GUI. Also, you have Fujitsu hard drives, I think they had like a 20% failure rate going the last time I read about them.
Definitely, you need more memory. But if whoever controls the money can be convinced that the computer is on its last leg, maybe a new system is in the future. Meanwhile, try a smaller distro which uses less resources. An older version of redhat, knoppix, maybe Jamd (if it can get by on 64 MB).

[Satanic Atheist]

I suggest you speak to Alex Cavnar (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113767&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) about flogging that old hardware. He'll probably be interested when they let him out.

At least he'll get a chance with a real machine :D

James

[terminal2k]

ok

1) on Red Hat 9 I don't remember exactly when it happened but it was once before entering IP addresses and once after, On BeOS It boots, the little pictures light up then it stopped with just a blue screen (the desktop colour if I remember right) the freebsd I don't remember at all and the Lycoris died shortly after loading its nice looking GUI.

2) I don't know anything about failure rates but I have never had any problems with these Hard Drives (I've been looking after 7 other PCs with the exact same HDs) and Red Hat didn't seem to mind the lack of ram (I would have assumed that was the problem but all the other OSes failed too). If the PC can run win98SE with no problems I'd hope it could handle a better written OS like linux. That said, I would have bought a new machine by now but I've just moved out of home so cash is way too tight.

3) I don't have any intention of getting rid of the machine, when I do get a new one, this one will end up being a mini fileserver or something for my home network.

[hard candy]

!. For a reliable GUI for RH9 and Lycoris 128 MB RAM required/preferred (per their sites).
2. For BeOS- Supported video cards (http://www.befaqs.com/support/solutions.cgi?c=read&doc=gfxcompatr5) Is yours on the list?
3. Fujitsu failure rates (up to 80% on some)- register (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6003)

Can you put together a decent machine from all the parts you have from the other 7?

[terminal2k]

1)But should having 64meg ram be able to cause such installation failures?

2)I have used the same video card with BeOS previously with no problems and yes it is on that list.

3)I don't know too much about HDs but if there was a problem with them would that not cause some serious issues for my windows installation (which I'm using now) and the HD I'm using for linux isn't from the "suspect" period mentioned on that page.

Oh the machines aren't mine. They belong to my work, I "borrowed" most of the components in this machine from there. (the other machines have the same HD, and most have the same sound, video and network cards)

[terminal2k]

anyway its 4am here so I'm off to bed but I'll say this now:

Replacing hardware is not an option (no money or spare hardware).

and I don't understand how linux can be worse than windows on this machine.

[hard candy]

The thing is, Redhat9 is equivalent to WinXp. Would you try to install WinXP on 64 MB RAM? It's minimum requirement is 128 MB also. Win98 would be equivalent to RedHat 7x series.
You can install Redhat without a GUI but it is not worth it. Try another distro and use one of the lighter window managers like xfce4, fluxbox, enlightenment.
Linux uses the systems memory to hold programs and data in a ready state, which is to make the system respond quicker when you want to start an application. With Redhat9, the memory needs are greater than older OS's since there is so much extra graphics and such being loaded to the RAM. This may use up available memory and cause another process to crash which is trying to access the same memory space.

[terminal2k]

i always thoought that was the point to linux, to have an OS that you need to upgrade your ram every time they release a new version. I always thought microsoft just sucked at writing code, does red hat suck too? Oh and I wouldn't even put a winxp cd near a computer let alone install it.

So, does that mean linux isn't a better OS than windows and I should throw the penguin in the bin? Oh and how does my lack of ram have anything to do with BeOS not working now (which is the exact same version I used previously with no problms)

[bosox79]

Originally posted by terminal2k
i always thoought that was the point to linux, to have an OS that you need to upgrade your ram every time they release a new version. I always thought microsoft just sucked at writing code, does red hat suck too? Oh and I wouldn't even put a winxp cd near a computer let alone install it.

So, does that mean linux isn't a better OS than windows and I should throw the penguin in the bin? Oh and how does my lack of ram have anything to do with BeOS not working now (which is the exact same version I used previously with no problms)

has far as your issues with RH 9 and linux in general did you check the various HCL's and minium system requirments for the various distro's you tried to install before you tried the install? would you expect to install any OS if your box did'nt at least meet or better yet excede the minum system requirments? what version of RH did you have installed before? I have never used BeOS myself. did you do any research before you attempted to upgrade to RH 9. and to say linux that linux is not a better OS becuse you have not found a distro that works yet is kind of short sided IMO there are a bunch of distro's you could try untill you find one that suits your hardware? Try doing a forum search for linx and old hardware or better yet check out dev/random and thebest distro thread:( linux is not the same as windows you have to work at it sometimes especly with older hardware. if you seek one out I am almost positive you will find a distro that suits your needs!

Rant Over


:mad: :mad:

[terminal2k]

I don't have to check compatability lists when I use any other OS nor do I have to "hunt around" for one that suits me/works on my machine. If linux wants to be considered as more than a "kiddies" OS it needs to either, install properly, or give me some kind of "This won't work coz your hardware is incompatible" or "You need more ram dumbass" messages. Hell if I had trouble installing windows I wouldn't still be posting messages on a forum, someone would have been able to point out my problem by now.

[hard candy]

As far as BeOS not working right, I suggest looking at the video driver and check their forums.
I'll tell you what- go to a WinXp forum and tell them you can't install WinXP on your machine. See what they tell you.
I'm sorry you're limited in your computer components. Try another distro- Distrowatch (http://www.distrowatch.com/) - this lists all the distros.
Or try BSD, BeOS, or stick with Win98. Whatever makes you happy.
As to what is a better OS- it's a matter of opinion, just because you're angry about not having up-to-date components doesn't mean linux is wrong or RedHat is bad-you just don't meet the requirements-tough luck.:(

[Brat2dbone]

If you can get your hands on a 700mb cd-r, slackware should install with little problem, I've got it running on a 166mhz with 64mb Ram. Both KDE and Gnome run with it, but I'm sure a faster processor and more ram will run them better.

[terminal2k]

lol, I'm not angry with having old hardware. and win98 isn't perfect but it has always worked. Kudos to mr gates for making an easy to install and setup OS. My gripe with linux is that it is touted by its supporters as the best thing since sliced bread yet it doesn't even install easily. I can see in 5 years, linux requiring five times the resources that windows 2010 needs with half the functionality.

[hard candy]

When you got Redhat 9 did you even look at the requirements? Or did you just download it and drop it in the cd player, and then ***** because it didn't work?
If you go to buy any Windows distro do you just buy it and drop it in the cd player and then ***** because it didn't install? No, I guarantee you looked at the box and determined it would run on your hardware or else the computer maker did that for you.
Linux can be as big as you want or as little as you want. Try paring down Win98 to fit in a usb keychain or a floppy. You can't do it. With linux you can.
I'm sorry your linux experience wasn't perfect, perhaps you should look inward and find out why you're angry. If you would do a LITTLE work you can run linux- if you want to cry and have an OS that gives you no control on what is installed- run back to Windows. Poverty is no excuse for laziness.

[bosox79]

Originally posted by hard candy
When you got Redhat 9 did you even look at the requirements? Or did you just download it and drop it in the cd player, and then ***** because it didn't work?
If you go to buy any Windows distro do you just buy it and drop it in the cd player and then ***** because it didn't install? No, I guarantee you looked at the box and determined it would run on your hardware or else the computer maker did that for you.
Linux can be as big as you want or as little as you want. Try paring down Win98 to fit in a usb keychain or a floppy. You can't do it. With linux you can.
I'm sorry your linux experience wasn't perfect, perhaps you should look inward and find out why you're angry. If you would do a LITTLE work you can run linux- if you want to cry and have an OS that gives you no control on what is installed- run back to Windows. Poverty is no excuse for laziness.

well said hard candy. terminal2k what were you expecting Linux to do for you? did you expect a distro like RH 9 that is meant for newer hardware if you want all the GUi's to work like a charm Linux and or bsd are not PHD OS's:confused: like I said before you can get it to work if you want to put in some effort, thats fine if you do'nt have the time to or just do'nt want to just do'nt complain to us becuse the distro's/OS's you have tried execpt for win 98 will not install and I would guess 98 came with the machine;)

[Satanic Atheist]

Originally posted by bosox79:
well said hard candy
Seconded. I have a laptop here that can run RedHat 6.2 with Gnome quite happily. It's a P133MMX with 24MB RAM and a 1.5Gb HD. I wouldn't even CHANCE it running RedHat 9. At the moment, it runs Windows 98, but that's on it's last legs already and is due a reinstallation (I think it's virus-laden).

So, even though this laptop can run Linux, and does (quite admirably), and also run Windows 98, I should be able to run a multi-user, multi-tasking, state-of-the-art webserver, with fully integrated WebMail system and IMAP retrieval. Right? All of this (of course) with a GUI that's so laden with features, it's a little sluggish even on a PII 450MMX and 640MB RAM.

Just because it's "Linux" doesn't mean it does miracles.

Get a grip.
Get a life.
Get out of our faces.

James

[terminal2k]

lol ok. all you arrogant linux users:

try listening to a person for once, I'm more annoyed that you all think you're perfect and the fact I didn't actually learn anything useful from you. I'm only annoyed with linux in the fact that there is nowhere for a newbie to turn for help. The linux documentation is all over the place and in way too many files. All this experience has taught me is to not expect help from other linux users on-line or good installer systems.

lol, and I can tell you all have your heads grounded in reality when you come to linux defence.

So finally, I'll come back and try linux again sometime, but not this forum.

[Satanic Atheist]

I guess terminal2k's terminal now.

James

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by terminal2k
lol ok. all you arrogant linux users:


Wow... I think somewhere he had the preconcieved notion that we were all arrogant. Out of how many threads that are created daily, how many posters come back and say that we're arrogant? :confused:

You came into it thinking that Linux was "da bomb OS", and that it was going to blow up Windows. You have to get a grip. There are plenty of distros out there that support older hardware really well, even though they are brand new distros. Red Hat, for one, isn't one of them-- they do tend to be more progressive, and orient their distros towards newer hardware. But, I can tell you this much-- FreeBSD will work on old hardware. I have a P120 system with 16MB of RAM running FreeBSD 4.6.2. I could upgrade it to 4.8 with no problem, but it's just been running so well with 4.6.2.

Now, never once did you actually tell us what problems you were having. BeOS isn't Linux, neither is FreeBSD. You didn't say that you had some type of kernel panic, or that X didn't initalize. You just said you were having errors. A system info like you posted is good soemtimes, but most of the time, all we need to know is:


Type/Speed of CPU
Type/Size of Hard drive
Amount of memory
Type of motherboard
Makes and models of all cards you're using, like sound, network, internal modem, etc.


If you had provided such a list, and then told us specifically what problem you're having, then I'm almost certain someone would have been able to help you. Without any of this, you may as well have posted, "It's broke. What do I do?"

So finally, I'll come back and try linux again sometime, but not this forum.

You're more than welcome to come back. But, if you don't, it's your choice-- we won't cry a river otherwise. However, if you go to any other Linux/Open Source help forum and try posting the same type of stuff like you have in this thread, I guarantee that you will be confronted with the same type of responses you're getting here. Then, what will happen? You'll still cling to the preconcieved notion that Linux people are arrogant, when it's probably your fault that your questions aren't being answered.

http://www.stevewolfonline.com/Downloads/DMR/Visuals/JLThreadLock.jpg