Fake "hackers"

[skeen]

Hi;

I really dont want to be one to bring up another "hacker" complaints thread... or a thread discussing the meanings and definitions of a "true hacker", rather Im here to complain about the vast amount of people who claim to be hackers.

I run a fairly popular website, receiving 1,000+ uniq's a day. The website runs a fairly popular chat room... we often get people in the room claiming that they will hack the chat room if they are not made moderators etc etc... all of that crap. When I actually discuss with these people how they intend to hack the website, I wind up hearing a whole bunch of crap from "Hackers" [Movie '95]... stating some rediculous name such as: eLiT3_h4k3R, you know the story. Now, Its in my strong belief that a majority of these people got their ideas from watching the movie "Hackers". This one movie has really had an effect on peoples perceptions of "hacking" and how "cool" it is. The one thing which truely gets me though is how incredibly unrealistic this movie is and how incredibly poor the characters are. Now, the movie was big... why oh why couldnt it have been realistic? It could have done so much for people and their views on computer hacking.

WarGames, now thats a class movie.

... is this a rant? Well, if it is, your thoughts please.

[UID500]

i always say let the ignorant bathe in their ignorance.

Lots of "hackers" are just wanna-bes. Some are not. In my experience, most real hackers will not threaten you, they will just do.

[DSwain]

yeah, i call them petty hackers. My definition of 'petty hacker' is-

a. One who hacks for the sake of hacking, or other worthless reasons (ex- 'Revenge')
b. One who claims to be able to hack, but truley has no understanding of it

don't get me wrong, i'm no hacker myself, i don't believe in breaking into things like that, and i have no understanding of it what-so-ever. The truley great hackers are ones of Linux, improving and working on the OS constantly for the better of all distros out there. these are the true hackers of all time.

besides, what pride does one get for breaking into a site/mainframe/personal computer anyway? Especially a personal computer, what are you going to do, steal somebodys text documents? i just don't understand i guess....i shouldn't have posted this, generally when i do i get yelled at or something, so i'll just go back to the installation forums

[Fryguy8]

dswain, I think you are a little off. I like to make huge differentiations between various types of hackers.

Anybody that likes to do anything non-normal with a computer is a hacker. (running linux, writing an add-on to customize something etc.) People who are screwing around are hackers, unless they are just stupid or otherwise shouldn't be called a hacker.

People who break into sites are crackers.

People who threaten to hack are just stupid. Whenever I see a person in a chatroom theaten to "h4x0r" something, I hastily look up their IP and start scanning :)

[DSwain]

alright, thanks for clearing that up.

but i still believe cracking, or hacking, or whatever you want to call it, into other peoples systems/servers is very pointless.

[sclebo05]

i agree with the post directly above this one. when someone calls themselves a 'hacker' i usually snicker because there is a difference between crackers and hackers that posers are unaware of.

usually its kids too. damn kids.

[Satanic Atheist]

"Hack" - Circular acronym meaning "Hacking And Computer Knowledge". Generally anyone clued up on how to use a computer is a hacker.

Crackers are people who break into system for whatever reason.

Scrip Kiddies are just plain annoying.

James

[Darkbolt]

hey now...lets not rag on kids, adults are just as capable as being uninformed, ignorant, and immature (ie: george bush :D)

My appologies to any bush fans :p


Dswain, the ones that crack into other peoples sites, servers etc. do it for a rush, or a feeling that they CAN do that, and often develop a superiority complex from it.

Ofcourse not all crackers are bad, or some are,then turn good. Alot get jobs in the security market to help make things more secure, or less vulnerable to malicious attacks. Infact, one of the "easiest" ways to get one of these jobs, is by doing time, or getting media attention for doing a malicious attack :)

[skeen]

I once read about a hacker/ cracker who hacked a telephone network to get caught... he got like a high paying computer security consultant typie job.

I personally do not agree with someone breaking into a webserver and altering a website... thats just plain vandalism. I do understand the rush that these people get from it though. Many hackers/ crackers will break into a system just to see if they can, this actually improves their ability to determine and create secure systems. Its pretty much the same thing as say, IBM asking a hacker to give it a go to see if their system is secure... many hackers will do this for free and drop a note to the sys admin regarding the security vulnerability, thus making the system more secure against MALICIOUS hacker/ crackers.

What do you think?

[Boris27]

Hacker - Someone who hacks for the sake of security improvement.

Cracker - Someone who hacks to do malicous things.

Script Kiddies - Usually teenagers that know how a port scanner works, and try to "hack" (its more luck than knowledge) a computer by connecting their favourite crack program (sub7, netbus, whatever) to a long list of computers also on their ISP... Just annoying, and any firewall or NAT / proxy setup can keep them out. They usually get into windows98 machines.

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by Satanic Atheist
"Hack" - Circular acronym meaning "Hacking And Computer Knowledge". I thought it was taken from "somebody who makes furniture with an axe"?

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/H/hacker.html

#6 is especially interesting.

Scrip Kiddies are just plain annoying. That's definitely true... ;)

[El_Cu_Guy]

Not another one of these post about how pop-culture influences morons.

Enough already

Computer Movies Suck (http://www.oldskool.org/personal/computer_movies_suck.shtml)

These posts are almost as annoying as Adequacy.org's Is you son a computer hacker? (http://www.sciaphobia.net/hacker.html)

[Satanic Atheist]

Hacker - Someone who hacks for the sake of security improvement.

There's a story on The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk) at the moment about the guy who had to hand himself in in California and then transport himself to New York to face trial for hacking into the New York Times, despite cracking other companies and then working with them (even signing NDAs) to improve their systems.

I can understand why they're annoyed at the intrusion, but personally, if it was my company that was insecure, I'd thank the guy for helping us before someone else did some REAL damage.

I think his trial is in November.

James

[Fryguy8]

yah adrian llamo.

He got hundreds of sites though, and most whole-heartedly thanked him. New York Times got pissed at him though, which is why he's in some trouble.

[elite_syntax]

I hate scriptkiddes and wannbe hacker 's.Man they can be a plain in the but.

[hardcore]

Continuing on Fryguy8, Adrian llamo helped plugged up security holes on the sites he intruded, one big one being Yahoo, where Yahoo was tremendously grateful for his help.

Which leads me to another point, most true hackers hate being catagorized. They like to not classified as a cracker or hacker, or whitehat/blackhat. A Hacker hacks because he/she loves knowing how things work, or going places where most people usually don't. What a "Cracker" does is use his/her knowledge to break into websites with malicious intent, and then to exploit whatever he/she can find (ie steal SS#'s or Credit Card #'s). Those in the community would prefer to have them called criminals, because in essence that's what they are.

Now I know that most are going to say that computer intrusion is a crime. It is. Hackers know this, but a true Hacker does so for knowlege only and tell the admin exactly how he/she got in, and how to go about plugging up the hole. But then its up to chance what happens afterwards.

But Script kiddies are another story...

Hope this helps clarify some things.

[Seph64]

Originally posted by skeen
why oh why couldnt it have been realistic? It could have done so much for people and their views on computer hacking.

Why? No one wants to see a movie about computer nerds hacking into computers realistically. It'd be the perfect cure for insomnia (AKA Boring as hell).

And the fake hackers are just fooling one person, themselves.

[elite_syntax]

Yep that true they just fool themself.But they like other to beleave they are hacker's that they can get root on other people pc.rofl

[chort]

hardcore is definitely right about real hackers not wishing to be pidgeon-holed into some label created by the media. I think the terms "blackhat" and "whitehat" are pure BS. I've seen a bunch of people running around (mostly on security mailing lists) saying "I used to be a blackhat, but now I switched to being a whitehat" which is usually followed up by some form of advertisement for their "security consulting services". In my opinion 99% of those people are idiot script kiddies who think they can fool corporate America into hiring them because they know words like "Nessus" and "0-day".

Real hackers are much more open-minded and much less concerned about labels. In the mind of most real hackers, there isn't a whole lot of definition between "legal and illegal" or "good and bad". It's mostly "improvements and things that could stand to be improved".

[elite_syntax]

I know what you mean.There some wannbe hacker's use mandrake 9.1 as a router.And think they no other linux os that better then mandrake 9.1


The real uber hackers use linux.:)

[Boris27]

Originally posted by elite_syntax
I know what you mean.There some wannbe hacker's use mandrake 9.1 as a router.And think they no other linux os that better then mandrake 9.1


The real uber hackers use linux.:)

Thats not what this is about. Setting up a router in Mandrake 9.1 and not seeing that there might be better options is not being a hacker, it's just being ignorant.

Thinking you are the man because someone left his windows box wide open is being a cracker/hacker wannabe.

[elite_syntax]

The most funny prt is they try to ask you a question about a linux command to prove that you don't know what linux is.Why do you want to prove your skills to a wannbe hacker or cracker.











Thats not what this is about. Setting up a router in Mandrake 9.1 and not seeing that there might be better options is not being a hacker, it's just being ignorant.

Thinking you are the man because someone left his windows box wide open is being a cracker/hacker wannabe. [/QUOTE]

[AngryPuppy]

Originally posted by Seph64
Why? No one wants to see a movie about computer nerds hacking into computers realistically. It'd be the perfect cure for insomnia (AKA Boring as hell).

And the fake hackers are just fooling one person, themselves.

While I understand where you are coming from (and you are right), there was a recent example in a movie of a real exploit In The Matrix Reloaded when Trinity uses NMAP to exploit a real OpenSSH hole. From what I have read, this was legit. Very uncharacteristic for Hollywood.

Terry

[knute]

It's interesting though, that most people who saw the movie don't realize that it was a real life application and real life programs that were being used, rather than the mock ups that are normally involved in hacker type movies.

[Icarus]

Originally posted by knute
It's interesting though, that most people who saw the movie don't realize that it was a real life application and real life programs that were being used, rather than the mock ups that are normally involved in hacker type movies. Look! I'm hacking your 256bit encrypted password!!

*clicky*clacky*clicky*clacky*clicky*clacky*clicky* clacky*
dlvrtk3205q$#^%Q#$^B $#^YTERBT^ rtvq43v5 V
*clicky*clacky*clicky*clacky*clicky*clacky*clicky* clacky
Flashy swirly colors
*ENTER*

OWNED!! :D

[Mike2001]

Originally posted by Satanic Atheist
"Hack" - Circular acronym meaning "Hacking And Computer Knowledge". Generally anyone clued up on how to use a computer is a hacker.

Crackers are people who break into system for whatever reason.

Scrip Kiddies are just plain annoying.

James

I'm pretty sure that the most generally accepted origin of the word 'hack' is that it was coined by the MIT Model Train club. I've seen references to it in many books I've read about the early days of computer science. Members would literally 'hack' the track layout with saws, hammers, etc. Changes which the members liked would be called 'good hacks'.

It stands to reason that there would be a high cross over between members of the Model Train club and people interested in computer science, same type of general geekyness.

Mike

[Trogdor]

I think that there are a lot of hackers out there (out here) who just crack their own pcs to find security flaws. Now is about the time some moron decides to debate the difference between a hacker and a cracker . . . sigh.

[Satanic Atheist]

Continuing on Fryguy8, Adrian llamo helped plugged up security holes on the sites he intruded, one big one being Yahoo, where Yahoo was tremendously grateful for his help.
You gotta admit though, that he was REALLY living on the edge by announcing it. If I hacked a corporate network, I would leave a message stating that there was a flaw and do everything to hide my origins. This is why computer crime laws exist - to protect the innocent and I feel the New York times were only protecting their interests.

At the same time, it was the discretion of Yahoo! to accept his help and not prosecute him which they could easily have done.

As the SysAdmin here, I would not like my security precautions to be circumvented since it is a slur on my configuration abilities. Although this network is open for everyone inside to access the outside, I want to make sure that I am not unduly cracked by anyone, although if it was someone that offerred to help me fix it, then I probably wouldn't go to the extremes of prosecution since that just gets expensive and messy when they didn't actually use my platform for anything untoward.

James

[knute]

James,

No matter how good you are at configuring stuff, there is always the chance that you will miss something. It's not a slur, it's human.

I do, however, understand your position.

When I did tech support, I remember one time I had to get by fortress before I could fix the issue that the admin was having.
Windows wouldn't boot (big surprise) and fortress could only be disabled from within windows. :D
Needless to say, my instructing him on how to circumvent the security that he had set up on this computer, left him upset with the fortress program.
We were past it in about 3 minutes, most of that time was used for booting, and creating the boot disk. :D

LOL After we got windows up and running again, I asked him to turn fortress off, so that we could test and make sure that it wasn't fortress trying to stop us. He sounded a little on the peeved side with how easily I had gotten by the program to be able to get into Safe Mode to fix the issue. :)

Knute

[elite_syntax]

I see your point knute.There are scriptkiddies out there thinking they are hackers.:rolleyes:

[AndrewLubinus89]

Originally posted by El_Cu_Guy

These posts are almost as annoying as Adequacy.org's Is you son a computer hacker? (http://www.sciaphobia.net/hacker.html)
Ok, this cracked me up :D Signs of hacking are asking for amd proccessors, playing quake, having linux, struggling academcially, and reading books like programming with perl??? They said that Amd chips are rip offs of good american chips like intel and that no respectable store sells them. It also says that Bonzi Buddy is a hacking tool. I thought it just spyware (maybe I'm wrong :confused: ). Anyway, that article is the most bogus thing I've ever read.

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by AndrewLubinus89
Anyway, that article is the most bogus thing I've ever read. That's because it was posted on adequacy.org. Just about everything they had was written that way.

"Or you can have trolls eggs trolls trolls trolls and trolls" (Vikings start singing in the background...)

[hardcore]

Sorry to rehash, but that article can't be real right? Are people really that misinformed and ignorant of the truth? If so, I have lost respect for a good deal of humanity...

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by hardcore
Sorry to rehash, but that article can't be real right? Are people really that misinformed and ignorant of the truth? If so, I have lost respect for a good deal of humanity...

Yeah, dude, it's fake. It's just a troll.... :)

[hardcore]

lol good. faith in humanity restored. :D

[sploo22]

I think that was supposed to be a joke, not a troll. Case in point:


8. Is your son obsessed with "Lunix"?

BSD, Lunix, Debian and Mandrake are all versions of an illegal hacker operation system, invented by a Soviet computer hacker named Linyos Torovoltos, before the Russians lost the Cold War. It is based on a program called "xenix", which was written by Microsoft for the US government. These programs are used by hackers to break into other people's computer systems to steal credit card numbers. They may also be used to break into people's stereos to steal their music, using the "mp3" program. Torovoltos is a notorious hacker, responsible for writing many hacker programs, such as "telnet", which is used by hackers to connect to machines on the internet without using a telephone.


:D

EDIT: Also, "Lunix is extremely dangerous software, and cannot be removed without destroying part of your hard disk surface."

[Kaligraphic]

Originally posted by sploo22
Also, "Lunix is extremely dangerous software, and cannot be removed without destroying part of your hard disk surface."
Yeah, if it was real, it would read "Linux is extremely capable software, and cannot be removed without destroying part of your brain capacity."

[Boris27]

Notice how they spelled Linux wrong.. Lunix is actually a distro.

[AndrewLubinus89]

Originally posted by hardcore
lol good. faith in humanity restored. :D

Haha, me too, of course, if I didn't realize it was a joke then maybe that sheds some light on my own intelligence :confused:

[Zubir]

i think these posts telling stories about someone breaking in and then getting a job should stop. not everyone is going to be so forgiving. there was recently a young man who hacked the new york times website. well, the new york times wants his *** now. he called in to the "screen savers" show on tech tv, and was crying like little girl. "why are they mad at me?" leo and the other fat guy were like "aw, that's a shame..." really? i don't think so. it's the equivalent of breaking and entering someone's home.

hypothetical situation: i call you at home, in the evening, and say "hey, nice dvd collection. your wife has some nice jewels hidden in her dresser, also. wanna give me a job securing your house?" what would you do? i know what i would do. i'd press charges.

word of advice. if you are planning on breaking into someone's website in the hopes of them giving you a job, let them know you plan to do it first. easy. that way if they say "yes," you don't have to worry about non consentual sodomy for 5 years.

[DFo3D]

I just though it would be worth noting, from personal experience I speak also.

I got busted once for compromising the lockout software on my high school's network. What I did was basically find out the main password by snooping at the admin office of the HS. Then I went into a system, installed a keylogger, and left the system alone so that it went through another password rotation. Then when I couldn't get back in with the same password, one look at the keylogger and voila.

Between the two passwords, I was able to build a decrypter based on correlating the letters from an alphanumeric code you are given to give to your admin if you forget the password (or tech support for the software vendor).

Upon doing this, I had a friend who wanted me to "teach him how to hack". At the time I didn't consider myself a hacker, but I guess I was by defition "hacking". When I showed my friend a few things, bombers, keyloggers, all sorts of neat tools and such he set out, and got caught changing his grades and attendance record. The FBI showed up, arrested him, he got sentenced to 2 years in prison, etc etc.

I didn't actually harm anything so they slapped me on the wrist, I now have a criminal record that any hacker does...very bad situation.

The point I want to make here, is that a true hacker...ones that actually have some capability to compromise a system, WILL DO EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO NOT LET ANYONE KNOW THAT HE/SHE IS A HACKER!!!

The NUMBER 1 RULE, is to SHUT YOUR MOUTH. Because if you have any traces of being a hacker, telling people you are a hacker, even anonymously on IRC is VERY dangerous. A true hacker, will NEVER admit as much to ANYONE unless he/she feels very secure that they have total anonymitty.

[bwkaz]

A true hacker won't ever have anything to worry about, because they won't be doing anything illegal.

Hackers build things. Crackers break them.

[DFo3D]

Between you and I they don't, but not to the feds.

If it can be traced that you have taken activity on a machine that you are not authorized nor intended to be privelaged, it is considered illegal.

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by DFo3D
Between you and I they don't, but not to the feds.

If it can be traced that you have taken activity on a machine that you are not authorized nor intended to be privelaged, it is considered illegal.

True, but that's the issue.

In order to gain access to a system that you're not authorized to use, you'd have to crack it. Even if it's walking by a logged on root prompt, or finding the password written on a sticky note, compromising a system's security through any means is cracking.

I'm a hacker. How can I get in trouble with the feds for writing a Python script to do bulk renaming?

[hardcore]

I think I mentioned this before, but those in the community hate distinguished names for hackers. They would like to put forth that hackers are hackers, but people that do illegal things while hacking are not crackers, black hats, etc. But instead those people should be titled criminals, because that is in fact what they are, criminals. So instead of cracker try using 'criminal hacker' or something to that effect. Otherwise, you risk continuing the notion that a hacker(any hacker) is an evil person.

[DFo3D]

Alex,

That's true....yeah!

[The Linux Kid]

I just want to say that this has been the best laugh that I have had in ages!!!! :D :D :D

Anyway, I just want to say, that I agree with the phrase:

Hackers make things. Crackers break them.

Therefore, i'm called a hacker for making an add-on to karamba or rewriting the wine config file etc.

The media/feds/us really need to sort out who is a hacker and who is a cracker.

Like a lot of people using linux, I have done some cracking. The worst thing I have ever done is "crack" into my sisters computer (that was on the same desk as me) via my linux laptop so that I could use the scanner and printer without changing over the cables (don't tell me that I am lazy lol :cool: )

Just my $0.02

Thomas

aka
The Linux Kid

[DFo3D]

If TCPA passes, what you did would be considered illegal and punishable by a serious fine and/or jailtime!

[Satanic Atheist]

Well, continuing on from what hardcore said on the previous page, what I did today constitutes an illegal activity. Or does it?

The financial maintenance system we run where I work is strictly controlled by a secondary login/password system. We basically login to an NT system and then access the remote server-based financial software.

So what did I do? I 'borrowed' a login belonging to a colleague (she gave me the ID and password) so I could assist her in clearing up some back paper-work. I was generating Monetary Orders and Work Orders against her name that I was technically not authorised to do (she works for a different division but same company).

Does this mean I am going to jail?

James

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Though I doubt you'd get put in jail, I must say that at the company I work for, you'd most certainly be fired, pursuant to our IT policies.

Even though you were helping, anything you did while logged on would have been traced as her having done it. So, if you browsed a couple porn sites while doing the paperwork (just an example, I'm not saying you would or anything), then that user would have been browsing a porn site. The blame would get put on her.

I'm sure your intentions were completely legit, but in addition to security, one of the reasons organizations implement logons is for accountability. With one user using another user's login name, the chance of tracking down the "real" perpetrator of an act get slimmed down.

[The Linux Kid]

I just re-read the article is your son a computer hacker. As I was reading through I readThis will destroy windows!! Isn't this good??? lol AndYour computer must be repaired by a pro What c***!!!! My mum who doesn't know what the keyboard is for could delete linux.

I'm going to be laughing for 30 years from this date!!:cool:

[elitewhiteghost]

The funny part is wannbe hacker get in the wroung pc and think your running windows that funny.:rolleyes:

[flukshun]

i'd consider a hacker anyone who devotes their time to discovering the inner workings and structure of a system for the purpose of improving it, or learning from it.

this includes "kernel hackers", "code hackers", and your run of the mill "the CIA wants to hire me" hacker.

everyone else is just a lamer, regardless of how much they know or think they know.

[o0zi]

OK bwkaz, now I see what you mean about people with a low number of posts bringing back dead ones... ;)

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by elitewhiteghost
The funny part is wannbe hacker get in the wroung pc and think your running windows that funny.:rolleyes:

Yeah, and then they would freak out when it says "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US" on their box... Then they'd be all like, "SOMEBODY SET UP US THE BOMB!"

O NOES D00D! :rolleyes:

[elitewhiteghost]

Then one ask if telnet is still around.Then they call you try to scare you.But they can't even write a shell script or a c or C++ script.



If they say they are hacker they can't even prove it.rofl.:rolleyes:

[Syngin]

Funny hehe. I just came across an unopened dvd copy of Hackers in the bargain bin at the local Blockbuster last night and snapped it up for nostalgia's sake.

[elderdays]

Uhm, does anyone else ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO have 2600 magazine as soon as it hits the shelf those few 4 times a year? It's the hacker quarterly for those who don't know and let me just give you the heads up on what is covered in the most recent one that came out a few weeks ago:

Paranoia vs. Sanity
Hacking the Genome
Whom Do You Trust?
System Profiling Through RPC
Robots and Spiders
Living Without an SSN
More Fun With Wireless Hacking
WEP: Not For Me
War Driving with a Pocket PC
Verizon's Call Intercept
Fun With Hping
Remote Computing Secured
DISA, Unix Security, and Reality
Hacking the "Captivate" Network
Unlocking GSM Handsets
Unlocking WebLock Pro
Holes in Windows 2003 Server
How to Mess with Citibank Collections

See! Everything from chromosomes to cellphones to computers. I love it.

Here's a tip though. I wouldn't actually buy a subscription SERIOUSLY. Just go to your local Barnes and Noble. Wouldn't want to wind up on any government list now would you? If you know anything about the people who write the mag or if you listen to Off the Hook at 2600.com you'll know what I mean. :)

[elitewhiteghost]

I get 2600 magazine in the mail.I like the 2600 magazine talk alot about some good things,Whish they talk more about linux then windows.:D

[hardcore]

Damn you just reminded me to pick it up, I've kept forgetting for the past 3 or so weeks. Thanks ;) I was thinking about subscription, but decideded against it. Cash only for me haha.

[hardcore]

Hacking is basically finding out how things work, it doesn't even have to be computers. It's today's hot-rodding, basically. Finding out how a certain system works, or knowing things that most people don't know is hacking in essence.

Grouping hackers into categories such as cracker or hacker, or black hat /white hat aren't good for the community. IF what a certain person has done is considered illegal, then they are a criminal, so hence they are criminal hackers, and what they should be termed, criminals.

[elitewhiteghost]

Some hackers on yahoo think they are elite.But can't find out how to get someone ip adderss.rofl

[Icarus]

Why did elitewhiteghost dig up a 5 month old dead thread...and people respond??

Anyway, these subjects bore the snot out of me and watching people argue over the pointless "Hackers are good, Crackers are evil" argument is way over done.

Hackers are good/evil
Crackers are good/evil
nmap is good/evil
whois is good/evil
finger is good/evil
GUI is good/evil
KDE/GNOME is good/evil
I am good/evil

It's not the tool/label/person that is good/bad...it is how it is used. It is illegal to access unauthorized machines through any means.
If you are so damn 1337, stop bragging and start up a Network Security Service (http://www.business.com/directory/computers_and_software/computer_services/information_technology_it_services/network_security_services/) and do some good in the world. :rolleyes:

[elitewhiteghost]

Some people won't understand that on yahoo.:rolleyes:

[Icarus]

Originally posted by elitewhiteghost
Some people won't understand that on yahoo.:rolleyes: Thus, (one of) the reason(s) I avoid Yahoo! like the plague :D

[elitewhiteghost]

Yahoo groups are full of idiot's.There few of think they know everything about me.They have anything to do but spy on me where i ever go.lol


:rolleyes: