Is Visual Basic worth anything?

[JThundley]

I need some input from some geeks, as none of my friends are geeky enough. I am just now starting community college, and one of the classes I signed up for is 'Introduction to Algorithms and Programming I'. It says that they program in a 'high-level language'. I'm teaching myself Python right now which is a high-level language.

I went to the class today and found out that he'll be teaching us Visual Basic, we must buy a book that comes with Visual Basic on a CD for $60. He showed us our final: making a program that takes a number between 1 and 12 and prints the multiplication tables for the number. I took out my notebook and started writing a Python version of it right then and there.

So I'm wondering, is Visual Basic worth a crap? I don't know much about it, but doesn't Microshaft make it and doesn't it run only on Windows? There wouldn't be much point in WINE-ing it, would there? Should I take a Java class instead?

Thanks for your input!

[bascule]

Should I take a Java class instead?

Defiinitely, visual basic from what I know teaches you bad habits and only runs on the one platform. Spend $60 on a good Java book and keep up the python work. Visual Basic is nasty!

[sharth]

i could probably pass that class right now... If i still had vb lying around.

[dlausevic]

VB is nasty. The class you're in is the identical class I'm taking at community college. I'm in Sac. I'm taking that particular class specifically because it is a prerequisite for C. And C is a prereq for C++. C is a core requirement for my major and C++ is a core requirement for my master's program. So... If you want to take something else, check the prereq list for C and that should give you some options. My class won't have any real programming, and my professor hates VB so we're going to avoid it.

[JThundley]

Thank you all for your input, I'm on my way back to the college to drop the class and add Java! :)

But I need to go back to a restaurant first so I can dig through their trash can and find my retainers :(

[twilli227]

I started to take that class, but dropped it. It is a required course for an IS degree. I have the 6 cd"s but have never installed it. I heard it takes about 5gigs of hard drive space.
In Comp Sci, we started with Karel++, then move to Java, and then C++.

[joelc]

Baa, you can start right with c++. I do sometimes wish I'd been shown more true C though, it makes things confusing sometimes.

I had a 6 week VB intro, and from what I saw, Borland Builder can do nearly (not quite all) everything VB can do, only faster, and several things VB can't (it's much easier to make API calls when you can use pointers).

[kshim5]

Java is a googd start. One reason is that you will definately get a hands on fell of a real Object oreinted programming language should go well with python.

[ph34r]

VB is a very nice "scripting language" for Win32...

[o0zi]

VB's fine for schoolkids who do programming as a hobby, and for 30-second programs that you can't be bothered to program properly.

For everything else, there's Perl, C, C++, Java, Python...

[dysharmonic]

Just the final words I'd like to hear abt VB kidding..:D

I had a lil bit of programming a few years back, it was Basic, in a time I hadnt paid much attention to anything computers then.

Now I'm on my own learning C++ and so far all sems to be rather ok, if not for the overwhelming amount of terms and definitions and you-know-what-else-there-is-to-it in C++ hehe..

[MartinB]

As part of the first year of my CS degree, I did a module in Visual BASIC module in semester 1 last year and hated it. I still managed to get 14 out of 15 at the end, despite all the errors and problems with my program.

I also did C (Unix with cc) and JAVA (Windows with JBuilder) last year too. I was quite surprised, as I found most people preferred C over JAVA, despite the fact that most people had never used a Unix system before taking that module.

I'm doing more next year; more C, C++, more JAVA, "Network Programming" and "Low-Level Programming". Really looking forward to it. No more VB! :)

[The Coder]

I have been using VB for about 2 years now for work related reasons. I am not a big fan of it. I don't feel like I am really programming. The apps take huge amounts of memory to run. Also you need to use dlls for different things but if something goes wrong, you have a hardtime knowing which dll the user is missing on their machine and what the hell the dll is actually doing(aka "dll hell"). Not to mention many off the ActiveX components are from third party companies and are many times completely undocumented, trial and error methods to see what they do.:rolleyes: It is ok for maybe small windows apps, but not for large ones. I would **NEVER** use this language as a learning tool to understanding computer programming.

[carrja99]

I took VB at my school and made an A and the final was something a little better than a multiplication table... COME ON!! A REAL professor would want to give you a final similar to what you would use VB for in the real world, like create a frontend to access a SQL database and such, not write some little program that, BASICly 8 year olds used to write in QBASIC! (Like me) :D

However, I must note that the only things I've used VB for were gag programs I could whip up in a couple seconds and send to friends.

[garskoci]

I use the VB CDs to prop up one leg of the table, so it doesn't wobble. Go the java, C/C++ route.

[JesseJames]

I took a Visual Basic course a couple of years ago. For the final program I made it a little bit to advanced so the tutor didnt understand it :D I use VB at home alot because Windows is my main OS and VB is easy to use. I knock up quick programs such as frontends for games, emulators and interpriters. I havent made any major programs. The biggest one (and the first one I made) was a program to change the colour of the Blue Screen Of Death. But by the time I had finished it I was using Windows XP so it didnt matter much :rolleyes:.
If I knew of some free programing software for windows I would give it a go but at the minute I dont know of any.

[Sepero]

Originally posted by JesseJames
If I knew of some free programing software for windows I would give it a go but at the minute I dont know of any.
http://java.sun.com

Java = awsome language

I would have learned C++ first, but I couldn't find any good online tutorials. It turns out that it was probably a good thing I learned Java first. C++ is a little more of a challenge than I thought it would be.


Anywho-
Does anyone know of a low priced online college where I can get a Programming Degree? I already know Java pretty well and I'm teaching myself C++ currently.

All the ones I have seen require Monopolysoft Visual Basic.

[dysharmonic]

Bloodshed Dev has free tools for Windows.

http://www.bloodshed.net

[Ludootje]

VB isn't a good language afaik, certainly not if you compare it to Java or Python. On the other hand, it is being used a lot in businesses, so knowing it can be useful. Considering your final, you won't learn a lot of it in that class so you're better off using Java (which is being used more and more, so learning it is a good idea anyway).

[o0zi]

Just learn VB and never use it except when you have to - it's so easy that it's hard to forget.

If you like OOP, then Java is a good choice.
As I've mentioned many times before, I prefer Perl because of its flexibility:)

[JThundley]

I dropped the Visual Basic class and tried to sign up for Java and it was FULL! C was full too!
I went to the class today, and he's going to add me anyway! :D And I found out one of my friends is in there! I'm so excited right now, because I'm going to be in that class and my first Solaris Unix class is tomorrow.

The Java teacher said one thing that made me mad:

"Does anyone know what Linux is? It's a free operating system and it's gaining popularity because of all the Windows viruses going around. It'll never be as popular as Windows though."

First of all, Linux is COMPLETELY free, I don't think he got that point across to anyone, and it's gaining popularity because it's a better operating system. Windows WILL die. They're still losing in the server market. I hope the Microsoft PR machine can't keep up.

Anyway, what are some good IDEs for programming Java in Linux? I'm going to try to WINE Jbuilder when I buy the book, and the teacher showed us to PSVM (http://www.psvm.com) which he said really prefers Internet Exploder. Try it out though.

[Sepero]

"Does anyone know what Linux is? It's a free operating system and it's gaining popularity because of all the Windows viruses going around. It'll never be as popular as Windows though."
Your teacher was obviously joking. Either that, or he is a joke. I don't think MS is going to go out of business, but their Operating System days are numbered, period. He's lucky I wasn't in his class when he said that, I would have had some choice words for him.

Also, GNU software is not free as in price. It may be sold, and is encouraged. GNU software is free as in "free as a bird". In can't be withheld or restricted from the public.

A good IDE for GNU/Linux is anjuta.
apt-get install anjuta # Winwoes users will never have that...

[Darkbolt]

best bet is probably to check sourceforge for it, they've got alot of IDE's for different languages

[leonpmu]

In a word : No.

Great to write viruses, that is about it. You can´t port an app, and it locks you in. I would agree with all the other posters here, C and Java, the langauges forever, I would for scripting add Perl into that list too

[Stween]

Originally posted by Sepero
Your teacher was obviously joking. Either that, or he is a joke.

The original statement is probably partially true. Linux is getting placed on a lot more servers these days, and one of the main reasons probably put forward to the men in suits who actually run things is "less likely to be affected by a virus", which can only be a good thing in the suit-man's eyes.

[MartinB]

Originally posted by JThundley
Anyway, what are some good IDEs for programming Java in Linux? I'm going to try to WINE Jbuilder when I buy the book, and the teacher showed us to PSVM (http://www.psvm.com) which he said really prefers Internet Exploder. Try it out though.

Don't bother using WINE to run the Windows version of JBuilder, just grab yourself the native Linux version of JBuilder.

Personally, I prefer to use KATE or VIM and then just compile from the command-line. I ain't a big fan of IDE's, especailly JBuilder. :)

[JThundley]

Yeah, I just noticed on their site that they jave a Linux version.
I bet he's gonna want me to learn Jbuilder though, but I can remember what he teaches. Maybe I will do it text only; if he can help me with it. Then again I guess my good friends (you guys) can help me out with that ;) .

By the way, when I said 'COMPLETELY free', I meant free as in speech, I know about selling GNU software and the freedom of it and all that.

What's up with having the same acronym for different thing?
IDE = Integrated Development Environment
IDE = Integrated Drive Electronics

Ooh, I got a question for you guys that I forgot to ask him: What is the current state of Java program portability? What I mean by this is, well I just filled up my head with as much anti-Microsoft propaganda (http://www.****microsoft.com/content/whatsbad.shtml) as I could get. In part of that they talk about how Microsoft totally screwed Sun/Java over by breaking Java on Windows. If I were to write a Java program would it run anywhere or would I have to write it for Windows or Linux or whatever. Is the write once run anywhere thing true?

[o0zi]

It generally is, yes. Microsoft did break Java on Windows, but Sun still offer a proper Java for Windows as well.

[JThundley]

That's what I thought, they promised a fully working Java client that they would integrate with their closed source Windows and secret APIs. But the one they released sucked. And then Sun set things right. I use the Sun Java instead of the MS Java.

[Sepero]

Microsoft making false promises?!?
I'm shocked!!!... psych!

[Matt9876]

Payed big $ for VB and ended up using C/C++.

VB s*cks!!

[glussier]

VB doesn't suck, it's great for doing mockups.

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by glussier
... it's great for doing mockups. If you use Windows. If you use any other operating system on earth, it simply won't work, regardless of how "good" people claim it is.

For mockups, I actually like Python better. Or clisp.

[glussier]

Did I say I was trying to run mockups written in VB in something else than Window? Most of my customers are Window users, so VB is still a good tool. Then, the real application is written in c++ and critical parts in assembly.

[Sepero]

And when your customers start switching to GNU/Linux...?

[glussier]

Originally posted by Sepero
And when your customers start switching to GNU/Linux...?

I never said I was writing VB apps for the customer, only mockups. Note that, even a c++ window app can't be run under Linux, still has to be converted.

[Sepero]

To glussier:
Python or Java would be better than C++ for cross platforming. No offense, though. Use what you like. It's not like we can crack into your pc and change it for you. ;) (that was joke... seriously :p)

[glussier]

Originally posted by Sepero
To glussier:
Python or Java would be better than C++ for cross platforming. No offense, though. Use what you like. It's not like we can crack into your pc and change it for you. ;) (that was joke... seriously :p)

I'm not writing software to be ported, I have customers which have been using window for years. And I don't care about Python, so be happy using it. :)

[The Coder]

Hey bwkaz,
This is off topic but I was reading your sig and you say you are campaigning against namespace std stuff. I didn't even know what this stuff was till this year. The C++ I learned and used(purely in UNIX) never used this stuff and I had no problems without it. THis year a professor of mine said that the C++ that does not use the STL stuff was an old outdated form of C++ to learn. What do you think about this?

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by The Coder
... The C++ I learned and used(purely in UNIX) never used this stuff and I had no problems without it. That's because your C++ compilers up to now have not been keeping up with the C++ standards. g++ 2.95, for example, doesn't have namespaced C++ headers (well, I should say, it doesn't complain when you use <iostream.h> -- you can also use <iostream>, but there's no good reason to). g++ 3, though, does warn you if you use <iostream.h>.

THis year a professor of mine said that the C++ that does not use the STL stuff was an old outdated form of C++ to learn. What do you think about this? If by "the STL stuff" you mean "having header files that use namespaces", then yes, I agree with your professor. If you're still using <iostream.h>, you're way behind the C++ standards committees. :p

The "using namespace std" comment in my sig isn't really talking about that, though. It's talking to the people that use <iostream>, but then import the entire contents of the std namespace into their code. This behavior is, also, way behind the C++ standards committees (at least IMHO), because the whole reason namespaces were introduced was to lower namespace pollution from header files. So the symbols defined in these headers (like cout, cerr, endl, iostream, fstream, etc.) are put into the std:: namespace instead.

When you add a using namespace std; line to your C++ file, you are taking every single one of those symbols (most of which you'll never use in your life, let alone in this one program...), and pulling them back into the default root namespace. Sort of defeats the purpose...

If you want to hear me drone on some more (:D), PM me.

[o0zi]

So what's the "Possum Lodge" motto about?:)

[Sepero]

Originally posted by glussier
I'm not writing software to be portedyet? (wishful thinking) ;)And I don't care about Python, so be happy using it. :) I don't know how to program in Python. I'm a Java man myself. :D
Although, since the Java and Python groups both think their language is the best, I've been considering learning Python. Then I can see for myself which one is for elite H4xors and which one is for L-users. heheh

[bwkaz]

Originally posted by o0zi
So what's the "Possum Lodge" motto about?:) You've never seen Red Green?

It's on a lot of PBS stations (at least in the US) late on Saturday nights, I think. Maybe it's Sunday nights now, don't remember for sure. It's actually been a while since I watched it myself, but holy cow, the old ones were funny. One episode, Red took a K-car, opened up the doors on it, ran the Possum Van past to knock the doors off their hinges, then duct-taped them ("the handyman's secret weapon: duct tape") back onto the car, hinged at the top. Then he put two garage door openers on top of the car, and hooked the ends of the chains up to the bottoms of the doors. So he'd hit the garage door remote button, and the doors would open up a bit like a Lamborghini's doors do (actually, closer to a DeLorean's doors) -- gull-wing-style.

The scary thing was, it actually worked... ;)

[Cerf]

Originally posted by bwkaz
You've never seen Red Green?

It's on a lot of PBS stations (at least in the US) late on Saturday nights, I think. Maybe it's Sunday nights now, don't remember for sure. It's actually been a while since I watched it myself, but holy cow, the old ones were funny. One episode, Red took a K-car, opened up the doors on it, ran the Possum Van past to knock the doors off their hinges, then duct-taped them ("the handyman's secret weapon: duct tape") back onto the car, hinged at the top. Then he put two garage door openers on top of the car, and hooked the ends of the chains up to the bottoms of the doors. So he'd hit the garage door remote button, and the doors would open up a bit like a Lamborghini's doors do (actually, closer to a DeLorean's doors) -- gull-wing-style.

The scary thing was, it actually worked... ;)

Its also on CBC, in the afternoon 5 time a week as well as other time (I just dont know when). Right b4 "this hour has 22 mineuts". Great canadian comedy