Which Distro?

[bs_texas]

There are varying degrees of typo atrocities on this, as well as on all technical sites/forums.

Many people couldn't spell to save their lives.
Many people here have english as a second language, and their english is whole lot better than your/my attempts at their language.
Many people type away real fast and then punch 'send' without going back to check their spelling.
Some people I've seen on here have no clue what punctuation is.
Some people proofread closely and still miss typos when they're in a hurry.

Many people don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, or its and it's.

But, as long as they communicate well enough to help with a linux problem, then I reckon we'll just ahve to put up with it.

I keep a dictionary on my desk and I still have typos occasionally.

regards....

[sharth]

I tried gentoo for a while, and there was only one thing I didn't like about it. Compiling X (and X's libraries) took way too long (48 hours and then I gave up :)) on a 550mghz machine.

Personally, I would recommend debian on slower machines, and then gentoo on anything that can compile stuff at a decent rate.

The emerge feature was cool though for my experiance with it, and the installation documentation is very detailed. Personally though, keep a backup of your old /etc directory, it might help in the install if you do a net-install.

[Hayl]

Originally posted by Fryguy8
Is there anything noticeably bad or wrong with gentoo?

not that i can think of.

[sarah31]

there is also arch linux. gnome 2.2 is having a few troubles right now but it has alot of other wm or kde. also has the most recent glibc, xfree86, etc. it is very easy to make your own packages or reconfigure them for oyur system. you can also easily change the i686 optimization to whatever you like and then rebuild your system with makeworld.

it may not be exactly what your are looking for but it can be made into whatever you like really.

[bwkaz]

LFS (www.linuxfromscratch.org) is my developer's distro. :p

I've heard that Gentoo is good at that too. Any source-based distro would be pretty good.

The thing that sets it apart? Well, not much, really, except that you can't install the distro without installing a compiler and all the "-devel packages", as other distros (RH, Mandrake, Debian, etc.) call them.

When you install something from source, there is no -devel package that's separate.

[dkeav]

lunar is nice

[Dr. Shim]

I think I'll like the fact that Debian doesn't have preinstalled stuff. I really don't want crap that I'll never use. I'm sure that I can get software that doesn't come in the install from somwhere else, right?

[z0mbix]

Originally posted by Dr. Shim
I think I'll like the fact that Debian doesn't have preinstalled stuff. I really don't want crap that I'll never use. I'm sure that I can get software that doesn't come in the install from somwhere else, right?

Debian has over 10,000 package available and there are many others that cna be found @ apt-get.org. Good luck :)

[Dr. Shim]

Wow. I'll give Debian a go. I really don't want to use Gentoo and the like just yet. :)

I'm going to do a net-install, since I hear it's quite flexible, and you get to choose what packages you install (by downloading them at install time).

[z0mbix]

Originally posted by Dr. Shim
Wow. I'll give Debian a go. I really don't want to use Gentoo and the like just yet. :)

I'm going to do a net-install, since I hear it's quite flexible, and you get to choose what packages you install (by downloading them at install time).

That's what I always do. I usually download CD 1 and install base etc off that then grab the rest via apt-get/aptitude/synaptic.

[Nexist]

I want to do the following: Write, Draw, Check Email, Design Websites, Chat & Balance my Budget. To do this I need (or would like):

WindowMaker 0.80.2
OpenOffice 1.0.2
Mozilla 1.3 beta (or 1.2.1)
Yahoo Messenger 0.99.19-1
AOL Instant Messenger 1.5.277
Bluefish 0.9
Gimp 1.3.12
GnuCash 1.8.1
JRE 1.3.1

(note: I tried Jabber based clients, and one or the other of the systems I chat on were always broken, though I will probably try again).

I tried Gentoo, because the emerge system seemed sexy, but I couldn't get a working system. I tried Vector, but the packages were too old, or didn't work properly. I then went to FreeBSD, but it is now becoming difficult. Is there a straigtforward minimalist distro of which I can avail myself?

Oh yes, this is going to be put on an AMD K6-350

[z0mbix]

Then Debian is what you need. Easy to install packages and update them. Install only what you need.

[z0mbix]

Also, gaim will handle all your messaging needs.

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by Dr. Shim
I think I'll like the fact that Debian doesn't have preinstalled stuff. I really don't want crap that I'll never use. I'm sure that I can get software that doesn't come in the install from somwhere else, right?
umm... you do know you can uninstall apps right?
each distro has the ability to remove apps, and in each distro you can install exactly the same. if you say you want to use .tar.gz's, then why complain about SuSE's RPMs? you can use source packages on each distro - so also on SuSE. you can developed just as well on each distro. the only problems I can think of are mdk & RH using crappy GCC versions with stuff they like.

[Ludootje]

Any distro will do. If you ask this question, I assume you're pretty new to GNU/Linux, right?
In that case, I don't recommend Debian like z0mbix - it might be too hard. have a look at SuSE.

[z0mbix]

Originally posted by Ludootje
In that case, I don't recommend Debian like z0mbix - it might be too hard. have a look at SuSE.

IMO, If Nexist can install FreeBSD and consider Gentoo then Debian will not be hard.

[JamminJoeyB]

Go for some gusto here. Slackware!! It's not that difficult to install. I've been using linux for 6 months and managed to install it.

I'm not running it now. I wen't back to Evile Entity. It's pretty much based on slack, but has a twisted attitude.

EvilE comes with open office, yahoo, gimp,Blufish, JRE1.4. The others you should be able to get the source and get running with no problem. I need to look at gaim, using Everybuddy, for my messaging needs now, but crashes everytime I try to send a file to some one. Everybuddy supports aim,msn,yahoo,jabber, icq.

BTW something I found out the hard way. EvilE comes with the latest Nvidia drivers in the ISO. So if you have a Geforce card you should be able to get 3d accelleration from the start. I only had to do a minor edit of the XF86Config file to get X running properly.

[cnjohnson]

We use debian here at work, and it really does require more knowledge than most people new to linux have. It is a great distro to migrate to, but I am not sure how good it is to start with.

SuSE is good, Redhat is good, Mandrake is good. All three have install interfaces that allow you to pick indiviual packages, and leave the details of file-system choices and what-not to the installer. All three can make very lean installs if you want.

Cheers--
Charles

[Nexist]

Originally posted by Ludootje
Any distro will do. If you ask this question, I assume you're pretty new to GNU/Linux, right?
In that case, I don't recommend Debian like z0mbix - it might be too hard. have a look at SuSE.

The problem with SuSE (& red Hat & Mandrake) is the bloat. I don't want a ton of packages that I will never use. I also want the latest (or close) packages. I normally use RedHat, but the new support scheme has turned me off (along with the fact that the version I need is the Beta which I can only get at a subscription of $60 a year).

[Sixstrings]

I am becoming rather fond of Suse 8.1

[Nexist]

Originally posted by JamminJoeyB
Go for some gusto here. Slackware!! It's not that difficult to install. I've been using linux for 6 months and managed to install it.

I'm not running it now. I wen't back to Evile Entity. It's pretty much based on slack, but has a twisted attitude.

Vector Linux is based off of Slackware. There is a known problem with Slackware and WindowMaker (& the other AfterStep; derived Desktops, such as Blackbox). Also, all of the packages I could fins were older -- not ancient, but missing features that I desired.

EvilE's website was down when I last checked, but as I recall, it is geered for "l337" hardware, & an aging K6-350 is nowhere near cutting edge.

Essentially this box is to allow me to continue to work while my wife is playing NeverWinter Nights on the other machine. ;)

[Nexist]

I have downloaded the ISO for Debian 3.0r1 (my intent is to install minimal & then add the packages I need via FTP.

Hopefully this will not be another excercize in frustration (If it is not up and running in 3 days, I will be asking again).

[cnjohnson]

Originally posted by Nexist
The problem with SuSE (& red Hat & Mandrake) is the bloat.

[... edited ...]

I normally use RedHat, but the new support scheme has turned me off (along with the fact that the version I need is the Beta which I can only get at a subscription of $60 a year).
SuSE, Redhat and Mandrake are only as bloated as you let them be. I have gotten Redhat isalled on a 250 meg (that's right, meg) HD running with 8 meg of ram on a 486 SX (we have 7 of these boxes doing VPN's here at work).

As for the support scheme...well...I don't use it, either! :)

Cheers--
Charles

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by z0mbix
IMO, If Nexist can install FreeBSD and consider Gentoo then Debian will not be hard.
heh true, didn't read he used FBSD (well I probably did read it, but by the time I posted a reply I must've forgotten it ;)).

[Ludootje]

Originally posted by Nexist
The problem with SuSE (& red Hat & Mandrake) is the bloat. I don't want a ton of packages that I will never use. I also want the latest (or close) packages. I normally use RedHat, but the new support scheme has turned me off (along with the fact that the version I need is the Beta which I can only get at a subscription of $60 a year).
you're the second one telling that today :rolleyes:
You don't HAVE to install all the packages, you don't even need to d/l all the CDs (for mdk, that is). You can uninstall, so it won't be bloated. SuSE has YOU (YaST Online Update) which offers the latest packages, mdk has a drake for it.
Debian is much more up to date though, but only if you use sid (=unstable), otherwise the packages are very, very old.
But if you've tried gentoo & freebsd, Debian's fine for you. Any distro is probably.

[polly nucleotic]

Originally posted by Nexist
I have downloaded the ISO for Debian 3.0r1 (my intent is to install minimal & then add the packages I need via FTP.

Hopefully this will not be another excercize in frustration (If it is not up and running in 3 days, I will be asking again).

It took me a couple of hours to get my Debian system tweaked (mostly X problems due to a new video card) but I highly doubt it will take more than a day.. I also went with the base-system then apt-get to your hearts content way. My system is now _very_ lean, which was important to me since I switched from Mandrake.

BTW, now that you're going to be using Debian, I bet you will join the clan of the Laziest Domestic SysAdmin's Alive. I know I did :)

[GaMMa]

Gentoo :)

[Nexist]

Originally posted by GaMMa
Gentoo :)

I tried Gentoo, it failed repeatedly to create a bootable system. The support was helpful, but to no avail. I will try again when I get a system such as they target. My k6 SCSI boot drive takes days to set up & then fails (I spent a week and a half installing from the various stages).

[Nexist]

Originally posted by polly nucleotic
BTW, now that you're going to be using Debian, I bet you will join the clan of the Laziest Domestic SysAdmin's Alive. I know I did :)

Unfortunately, it failed to recognize the SCSI Drive attached (however everything else did). The IRC channel was rude and I haven't received a response from the Mailing List.

Currently, I am seeing if I can get a satisfactory install from SuSE

[ghostwalker]

I have been using various Linux distros from 1997. I first started with Slackware 3.1. Tried Knoppix (Debian), Redhat 8.0. The easiest so far and by far the very best in opinion is Mandrake 9.1 (RC2). It is stable, installs great, find every piece of hardware on my machine. Albeit, is an older machine. Yet, everything works.

I have found that in the Linux community if you have a question, problem or need a driver or program. It either out there or someone is working on it.

The thing of it is. If you find a distro that work for you support it. If you want to make a difference with M$. Send support to the developers. A lot of them this is it all that they do. They to need to pay the bills. The key for change is supporting the distro that works for you.

I will be staying with Mandrake for sure. I really don't need Windows any more! I have everything I need right here. ;)

[LinuxLuke]

I haven't had trouble running game son Linux... some take some work, but often run MUCH better, and since I have been given permission to shrink this Win2k partition on the family computer and give myself 10 gigs for Linux, I can see a lot fo gaming happening, expecially since I found drivers for the modem.

[Extreme_Toad]

I am looking to upgrade MDK 8.1, and am not sure if I should get Mdk 9, or something else. I cannot get MDK 9 except online and I do not like to do that. Any distros you would like to recommend?

[ShieldWolf]

Without some more info, it's going to be impossible to help you make an informed decision.

[list=1]
What's wrong with your current distro?
What do you expect from a new distro?
What's your level of linux experience?
What hardware?
What's your connection speed?
[/list=1]

Answer these questions, and we can get started recommending a new distro.

You say the only place you can get Mandrake 9.0 is online, and you don't like doing that. Do you mean that you don't like to buy stuff online, or that you don't like to download iso's online? Some distro's are download only, and some are going to be just about impossible to purchase anywhere but online. You're really limiting your options either way there Toad.

[GnomeProject]

I am not much of a programmer...that is an OS programmer...but would it be possible and are there enough people interested in making a distro for the Handspring Visor line of PDA's???

[mdwatts]

I found

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9116639287.html

with a G4L search for '"Handspring Visor" distro'

HTH's

[Extreme_Toad]

Current distro is MDK 8.1. Problem is everything is outdated.

I expect updated software and better functionality from a new distro.

My level of experience is nil :(
Hardest thing I have done is tried to get the Stronghold game to work with wine.

Current hardware is:
Athlon XP 2000+ on a Kt3 Ultra2 Mainboard
256 Mb. DDR ram
5 GB. Linux harddrive (14 gb windoze)
56k winmodem (cirrus clm)

I can only buy MDK9 online, and would rather not do that. I know, I am limiting myself greatly, but it is just a thing of mine.

There is a computer show that comes through my city monthly and that is probably where I would buy my next linux box.
Thanks,
ET

P.S. I was quite busy before, and I guess that is why I did not put in enough info.

[vbp6us]

SuSE 8.1 PRo. :)

[ShieldWolf]

Current distro is MDK 8.1. Problem is everything is outdated.
Mandrake 8.1 is a little out of date, but then again, with your curent level of experience, you probably won't see too much difference in the upgrade to Mandrake 9.0 (the current release) or even Mandrake 9.1 (due out in a couple of weeks), other than the change from KDE2.xx to KDE3.xx.

Of course, in my opinion, that is a good enough reason to upgrade. :D The good thing about upgrading to Mandrake 9.x is that there is an upgrade option. That means you should be able to keep all of your data through the transition. Nothing's perfect though, so it's still a good idea to back-up your data first.


I expect updated software and better functionality from a new distro.
What functionality problems are you having with your current distro? Be aware that most problems are currently due to non-standard hardware that requires proprietary drivers. In other words, you're still going to have to find drivers for that win-modem, and your NVidia video card(if that's what you have).

As for the software, you don't have to change distro's to get the latest software. If you want the latest version of Open Office, for example, go to openoffice.org and download it. Follow their instructions on installation and you should be good to go.

My level of experience is nil
Hardest thing I have done is tried to get the Stronghold game to work with wine.
Well, that narrows things down quite a bit , in my opinion, at least. I would suggest that you stick with the latest version of one of the more newbie friendly releases, such as RedHat, Mandrake, or Suse.

You have a Windows partition, why are you trying to get a Windows game to work under Wine on your smaller Linux partition? If you just want to learn how to use Wine, in anticipation of the day you drop Windows altogether, that's fine I suppose. Otherwise, why bother?


Current hardware is:
Athlon XP 2000+ on a Kt3 Ultra2 Mainboard
256 Mb. DDR ram
5 GB. Linux harddrive (14 gb windoze)
56k winmodem (cirrus clm)
No video, sound, CD, DVD, floppy, NIC, printer, etc? Must be a pretty boring machine. :D JK

Seriously, I would invest in a better modem, and a bigger hard drive at the least, before spending money on a box-set of linux.


I can only buy MDK9 online, and would rather not do that. I know, I am limiting myself greatly, but it is just a thing of mine.
I have seen Mandrake at Best Buy and Fry's, although you may want to go ahead and wait for Mandrake 9.1 to hit the shelves.

I know that you said that you don't want to order off of the net, but do go take a look at http://www.cheapbytes.com/ . You're going to have a very hard time beating thier prices, and they take orders by phone or snail mail for those of us who don't like to give out our credit card numbers over the net, or would prefer to use a money order. The only way to do this any cheaper is to find a friend with a fast connection and a CD Burner to download them for you.

There is a computer show that comes through my city monthly and that is probably where I would buy my next linux box.
Unless you're paying <$3.00 a CD, stick with CheapBytes, where you can at least get a little service if you get a bad CD.

One thing that I would HIGHLY recommend, is to check out http://www.distrowatch.com/ and compare all the different features of any distros you're considering.

Just in case I wasn't plain enough, here's my recommendations one more time.


Stick with the distro you currently have working, and continue to learn how to use it.
Upgrade to a true modem and add another/bigger harddrive.
Wait for Mandrake 9.1 to come out and have a friend download it and burn you a copy.

[Extreme_Toad]

Wow, lotsa info. So, stick with the big three:):). Okay.

You wanted to know ALL my hardware?

Ok:

besides the above

Geforce 2 MX400 w/ 64 MB RAM
CA 44410 (I think) surround speakers w/ subwoofer
Built in audio.
Artec 48x-12x-48x CD-RW drive.
Regular floppy:)
No NIC :(
Canon Bubble Jet BJ-200ex printer from the mid 90s (old)
Sidewinder 2 joystick
All right, that about covers it, unless you want the serial numbers :).

I am wanting to get rid of windows eventually. I have a LOT to learn.

And I am hoping for a new version of freetype. Hardest thing so far was installing 2.1.4 version. I found an RPM at RPM find and am d/l ing it now.
Wish me luck :)

Planning on getting new modem, I really do not need the hard drive. I have 1.7 GB left in my home directory now. Maybe I can pick one up at the computer show.

Thanks,
ET

[zivan56]

Does anybody know of a distro made especially for hosting websites? I want to use WebCP (free); but it does not work properly on Debian. So, any distro that has a web hosting Cpanel like program and is made especially for that purpose would be great.

[kam]

I doubt there is one. I think almost every distribution can be made into a web server.

[zivan56]

The problem is not the web server; rather quota / transfer / account management for accounts that just have permission for FTP and PHP.

[Hayl]

try doing a search on freshmeat or on sourceforge. i remember seeing a web front-end for managing ISP services.

[zivan56]

Originally posted by Hayl
try doing a search on freshmeat or on sourceforge. i remember seeing a web front-end for managing ISP services.

Thanks, I have found webcp, the problem is that setup instructions are virtually non-existant, and the second httpd (for maangement) crashes whenever a request is made. Also, it says the mysql module for php is not installed even thought I have 2 sites using php on my server.

[Culbert]

I just want to add my 2 cents. I was super brand new to linux and the only distro I had ever heard of was Red Hat so I downloaded it and it worked great right away. Then I got to this forum and many linux sites and certain things weren't adding up and my distro didn't seem to be as cool as all the rest of them. I did a lot of research and still being new I needed to choose a pretty easy one to use and mandrake looked like a good one.
I just have to say kudos to mandrake 9.0. Right off the bat they give you blackbox, enlightenment, KDE 3 and Gnome and a ton of other stuff that Red Hat didn't offer and I coulnd't get it to install either on Red Hat. My choice as of right now is Mandrake 9.0.

[MMYoung]

I went with MDK 9 myself and haven't regretted it. It was really easy to install, recognized all my hardware, except my scanner - Microtek X6USB - still won't work with SANE (which I'm hoping is corrected with 9.1).

Hell, the thing practially set itself up with little or no input from me, even using "expert" mode the install was mostly automated the main exception being that I chose what packages to install.

My 2 cents worth,
MMYoung

[sclebo05]

I agree, Mandrake is great for new users. and, since it is based on Red Hat, you are getting the experience of both.

[newbee-steve]

You no I'm in here reading how everyone is so happy with Mandrake9.0 that Ishould just call Mandake up again even if they blowww me off and try to get anouther set of cds... I loaded it right out of the box and all I could say is o my god this is **** !!! My screen was Vary Vary Vary Hazzzyyy wow the font was missing letters or some words just not there so I call them for Support thay told me to get a new monitor, now I told them my system is about 4 mo. old lololol they and again its your system NOT...

But I new linux is Great it has to be the OS so back to Best Buy Now its redhats turn and it work. I my self love linux but I must say I have a BIG BUG with mandrake ... sorry but I didnt Quit.. thats the key!!!!

O also I think SuSE8.1 is vary good to it also worked vary well in alot of ways its like mandake to from what i can tell....

[Culbert]

I'm glad that Red Hat worked on your system. I just wanted something more than what Red Hat had to offer. I have a 5 year old 17 inch monitor and Mandrake worked excellent on my system, as did Red Hat, but w/ Red Hat I couldn't load many of the goodies out there because of how "changed" linux is in Red Hat.
Mandrake was based on Red Hat, but I've learned from the reading I've been doing that it has split off so much from Red Hat that the Red Hat in it is so buried that you hardly even know.

Whenever I've had fuzzy or monitor problems, I just fiddle with the refresh rate and then update my video card drivers and that usually fixes it right up. Good luck with SuSe and Red Hat, myself, I'm going to stick with MDK9.0. :cool:

[InferiorWang]

I just started using mandrake 9.0 (first linux install I've ever done). I had heard of many of the different linuxes b/c I wanted to do the switch for a while, but didn't have a computer that I could have not work for any period of time b/c I was screwing with stuff. My RA suggested that I do Mandrake since I'm a first time user. Anyways, with my new computer I put the mandrake cd in and it went off and installed everything perfectly on the first time with the exception of the TV out on my video card that I'm still working on. I'm pretty sure that none of the distro's support tv out for my card. :( I've been messing with stuff that I downloaded. Anyways, now I kinda want to download other distros for more stuff to mess with. I can't wait until school slows down and I have more time to mess with this stuff.

[JamminJoeyB]

Just my $.02, but did any one notice the originator of this thread hasn't posted a reply since the 4th page.

I never did figure out what distro he went with.

[Culbert]

Luckily I'm going to be loading linux on a webserver that I currently use Win2k on. So that will be fun, I'll be able to load different distros and play with the installs. Maybe even try one of the more advanced distros like Gentoo (which I've heard real good things about). I was thinking about Debian, but I heard bad things about that distro because of the package distribution method they use and how it can really hinder your system by using the unofficial places to download newer packages. I may try Gentoo though. :)

[sclebo05]

this is as good of a place to post this as any..........so here goes. The last time i used slackware (8.1) i believe, it didn't find half of my hardware and i had a terrible time with it. My question is........... is the new slackware 9 rc 1/2 any good? i know very little about the distro, so i want a hardcore slack fan to explain to me WHY they use it.

[ixthus]

Originally posted by JamminJoeyB
Just my $.02, but did any one notice the originator of this thread hasn't posted a reply since the 4th page.

I never did figure out what distro he went with. LOL

Now for my personal insight. aaaaaaaaaggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

Now that is said. I am going learn to command XFree86 yet!

Started the weekend dinking with Debian 3.0 on a PIII 800 with an ATI 128 rage and a promise ata/66 board dual booting virus xp. Actually everything went smoothly when I started booting off of the disc 5 with the rf24 flavor. just a familiarity issue and time constraints prompted me to yank the debian and slapp in the RH8.0..

So, last night with the websight fully migrated from the PIII 450 to the P III 800 I decided to remove some of the fluff on the PIII 800 [using the Gnome GUI Package interface]. :)

Packages removed with no issue :cool:

Then when I reboot I get the now famous -
INIT: Id "x" respawning too fast: disabled for 5 minutes:eek:

fortunately everthing except X is working :whew: websight is still up, just every 5 min for the last 12 hours i've been getting the blasted error. luckily due the great threads on this bb, i should be able to get everything working again :)

[slapNUT]

Maybe my first post wasn't clear?

This should help, I think.
There is only one LINUX. It can be found in various stages of development at www.linux.org.

I hope this clears up any confusion..:D

<edit> Oops that should be www.kernel.org

[cuttlefish]

I'm running Mandrake 7.2 on a P120 (actually a 133 just haven't jumpered the board correctly) with 64 MB RAM, and while it's not the fastest thing on the planet, I'm more than happy with the performance. I too am very new to Linux, so I'm just starting to mess around with it, I went for the recommended install, which went very smoothly, but just put far more stuff than I want on the system.

If you can get a copy I'd give it a go.

Cuttlefish.

[Richard Craneum]

I also noticed that Mozilla is a RAM hugger too, which browser is the lightest? I tried on the 486 and runs good, the problem is processor performance, the other one, ran out of RAM room... Darn! Is not a winning situation...

[sharth]

Dillo is light. and for a more full-featured broser, Ive heard that opera has a small footprint. (heard.)

[garliclaws]

I was pondering a conversation on Win vs Linux OS systems
I was a little bit confused on the term distro, apparently someon destroyed 3 of his distro's???

Of crse I know nothing>

[z0mbix]

Distro is just a distributer of Linux e.g RedHat, Mandrake, Debian, SuSE etc. etc.

[rcu316]

Originally posted by ssjf
.

Uh...



You should read first.

Try Debian. It won't take 5 days to install (like gentoo), and it only installs what you ask for. Just my $0.02. Debian is a lot easier to set up than debian. It will be an excellent learning experience. Just remember, we are here to help, so don't worry about the install too much.



I don't know, I have tried installing Debian on my computer, no it is not an obsolete computer, 3 or 4 times now without any success. It WILL NOT recognize the Promise controller card. I took the controller card out and got it installed to boot to text mode. I have fooled with it for a month and have yet to get a GUI to be able to run. It just plain old don't like a PCI based video card.


Roy

[newbee-steve]

2 you K6 owners if you go to compaq you can download a flash for your Bios and Ram it will go up to 128 ram I "O" right Zero and dont use you compaq Install disk...

I have one runing300mhz with USB a 60 g harddrive with 128 king.. running redhat8.0 with kde3.1 works Ok

[newbee-steve]

sorry take that back it has 196 ram on my k6 also that compaq install cd lock you at 64 ram and 20g on the hard drive dont use it... A extra fan will help and you should use one ... blow it on the board it will get HOT...

[richard_haggath]

i have got three distros at my disposal
i have
redhat 8.0
suse 8.1
mandrake 9.0

which should i install and why the choice is up to you all.

[Raoul_Duke]

Errr.......haven't tried Suse but i didn't get on with Mandrake..........I used Redhat* for about 4 months, not too shabby :)

[JamminJoeyB]

Can you say distro war.

Try them all. Each are fine distros.

Why limit your self to just one flavor.

If you are the newest of newbies and just want to be up and running fast. I think RH or mandy will get you there in about an hour.

So that you don't make the one simple mistake that most newbies do. (I made this one too when I first started.)

Change the BIOS in your computer from PNP OS to NON PNP OS.

Linux will be much happier with this done.

[Richard Craneum]

Sorry for my ignorance, I visited many times the Compaq web site and I could not find a ROMPAQ for my Presario 4550 that will acomodate over 48MB RAM. However, it use Phoenix BIOS and I know for fact that can be bump for a better one. I have done it on a Packard Bell so I can get a bigger HDD. If you have the link... shoot me one. Since HP merged with Compaq the web site is nothing but chaos!

[jetblackz]

For those old computers, you might want to take a look at vectorlinux.com. Also on my site.

It takes 500MB disk space, has iceWM/XFCE light-weight desktops, includes Opera, Dillo and lynx. Most are point-n-click. As a matter of fact, I'm running Vector on a P4 just for the lightning speed. I installed Mozilla. Scrolling is faster than on KDE/Gnome. The scrolling in xterm is unmatched. By the time I hit CTRL-S, I'm on a new prompt. 32MB RAM will do, me thinks.

While Libranet may be easier to install, I wonder how easy it would be to trim the fat out.

[Richard Craneum]

Never tried Vector Linux so I will give it a shot. My problem is RAM so... Let see how that goes. Thakns.

[richard_haggath]

thanks guys i may be new but fancy finding out a bit about suse i would multi boot them all if i could but don't know how so i guess i will try them one at a time.

[Hayl]

none of the above. see here (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=94050) for the reason why.

If i had to choose - Mandrake. Red Hat is too proprietary (i.e bluecurve IMHO) and Suse's installer has always locked on me whenever ive tried it.

[newbee-steve]

If you post you S/N #, chipsets,Model # about your k6 I will see what I can do tonight...O give me the year to please....

[steve301]

I've used Mandrake8.0 and 8.1 but not the latest and have used SuSe7.3, 8.0 and 8.1, out of all these i've gone back to using suse8.1 for ease of use and gaming, never had much problems setting up nvidia drivers nor installing games, except for the problems with dvd-rom which was suse8.1 problem. None are perfect but then it does give me a reason to tweak and learn the strengths and weakness of each distro.

;)

[LinuxLuke]

I'm downloading Vector right now, it looks sweet, I plan to stick it on my PII 400 for a while (it changes distros almost everyday) but since I'm having trouble with my Radeon 7000 I'll likely end up going back to Mandrake 8.2, But I'm a fan of Slack, and Vector is Slack based, small download, and seems to have sufficient packages, so after my download finishes up I'll post my opinion.

[Fryguy8]

By advanced user, I mean someone who knows there way around a linux system, runs LFS etc.

Basically my cousin is trying to build his own computer, and he wants to copy me and use linux. Now obviously I can't recommend LFS to him. I also don't want to recommend redhat or mandrake to him, because I've never used either, and this is the type of kid who doesn't do anything on his own (read: he is going to bug me about every freaking small detail).

So I'm thinking about doing debian (what I "grew up" on). However he's on dialup, and it's a compuserve connection, so upgrading from the internet isn't too plausible (any howtos on getting a compuserve connection up?)

So I dunno. Thoughts would be appreciated. I guess doing a debian full set of CDs then doing small updates would be allright, if I can figure out how to get a compuserv connection up easily (I've never done any ppp connections on linux).

[lotusjps46]

I have been using Linux for about two years, and the best distro I have found for new users is a Slackware distro called Vector Linux. (www.vectorlinux.com). Their SOHO version is a nice easy install, good hardware detection, and few bugs. Has a small footprint for a full KDE distro, and it comes with IceWM and XFCE also. Lots of support, and he can learn to install from almost any kind of software package.

[aggregate]

I like Mandrake. The GUI is probably the closest to Windoze I've used. Red Hat was too clunky. Mandrake spts USB and has an xlent install GUI. Try partitioning and keeping Windoze for at least awhile, you will regret it otherwize if your modem dont work or u have a prob with your scanner. If your sure your h/ware and s/ware requirements are met, then go for it; I don't believe they are for most people yet; too many device are still only spted by Windoze.

[chrism01]

To be honest, for a newbie i'd normally recommend something like RH, 'cos its easy to install, well supported and in the long run you can always move over to using the cmd line when you're ready.
OTOH, if he's going to bug you, stick with what you know and beg/buy/borrow/burn a set of Debian CDs.
Walk him through the install and setup ppp for him. That way, it'll easier to persuade him to search the web (eg here :) for help....

[Icarus]

Originally posted by Hayl
none of the above. see here (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=94050) for the reason why.

If i had to choose - Mandrake. Red Hat is too proprietary (i.e bluecurve IMHO) and Suse's installer has always locked on me whenever ive tried it. A unique desktop theme makes one proprietary now? It's just a theme, nothing special about that

Mandrake is good for a new user, Red Hat is nice if you read the documentation as they made a few changes that nobody understands...unless they read the documentation ;)
I guess this is what most people don't like about Red Hat, you need to read their manuals/release docs to find out why some things don't work (mp3's, DVD's, CD-ROM DMA, Telnet, Hostname...) For the "super intellegent people that know what they are doing without reading a manual" go with Mandrake.

If you like to tinker, Red Hat is very good...just don't complain because your mp3's don't work out of the box and your DVD's run choppy :rolleyes:

[richard_haggath]

Originally posted by JamminJoeyB
Can you say distro war.

Try them all. Each are fine distros.

Why limit your self to just one flavor.


i took your advice and tried them all mandrake nice and easy but had problems getting my Nvidia drivers installed installation super sweet.
REDHAT ok bit quirky but where did my ntfs disk goto not for me chef i have had enough.
SuSE now i like this, drivers installed simple. os installed with a little bit of thought on what was what gonna give this a whirl for a while only problem is that it's not as well supported as some distros but you can't have it all.

thanks

[Hayl]

Originally posted by mahdi
A unique desktop theme makes one proprietary now? It's just a theme, nothing special about that

the theme (bluecurve) isn't proprietary per se but the (bluecurve) interface is : i think that the way they have modified KDE to look like Gnome and then fact that they have made it so that you can't edit the red hat menu easily are proprietary.

[Arcane_Disciple]

I have used red hat for about 7 months now and I am pretty happy with it. Don't get me wrong, I've tried other distros and each as their strong points. I really like slackware, but it doesn't like my laptop. Hardware is another thing to keep in mind. Red hat does a good job at finding it all. Plus with a rpm here and there you can access your ntfs partition and get your nvidia drivers working in no time.

[madcompnerd]

Would somebody mind naming the distro's that don't support USB 1.1, and even the ones that don't support USB 2?

[Kaligraphic]

As for which linux is best, the 2.2 kernel works fine for me, but 2.4 has more features. I think I read somewhere that USB support doesn't work as well under 2.2, and I think 2.4 does some things more efficiently, so I'd say, probably 2.4.

As for which distro, I started with debian, and didn't run into too much trouble. But it's really a matter of taste. I picked debian because I could get a good transfer rate off their ftp server. I've been told that it's not as good to start with, but once I started using the man command, it worked fine. I hear that redhat and mandrake are supposed to be easy to set up. lfs is supposed to be a lot harder than debian - or, at least, a lot more time consuming.

I wonder if anyone is actually reading this thread, or if people are just posting here for no reason...

[aggregate]

"I wonder if anyone is actually reading this thread, or if people are just posting here for no reason..."

[dysharmonic]

Mandrake 8.2 w/ Gnome or KDE seems to be a bit faster than RHL 8.0...

I've only tried the two above plus RHL 7.1 and 7.3.

Currently running Mdk 8.2 and RHL 8.0. Like them both.

[aggregate]

Just curious, do you think its worth it running two Linux Distros duel boot? I was going to install Red Hat 7.0 with Mandrake 9.0 (with WinXP PRO and Win 98 too) just to mess around with, but I stuffed it up (got some help here, but I reinstalled Mandrake b4 I got the info on how to fix it properly-time diff). Don't know whether to give it another go; I seem to be prone to 'losing' things.

[dysharmonic]

I added Mdk because I wanted to have a look at it and know how it feels. Technically Mdk is not very different from RHL (Mdk was based off a RHL distro I guess).

As I said I just wanted to experience it.

Anyone got a copy of FreeBSD there? Might wanna try it too...:D

[ret3]

I just got, for the princely sum of $0.00, an old Dell 486P/50 box. It seems to have 4mb ram, unsure of the HD space (I haven't hooked it up to a monitor & keyboard yet). Assuming there's no major hardware problems, what can I run on this ol' girl? Btw, there's no CD-ROM, just 3.5" & 5.25" floppies.

[ret3]

oops! looks like jiorgee has a very simiar thread going already...maybe I'll just piggy back on his...

[Thorgal]

I am a linux newbie running mandrake on my desktop compu. I also have an old pentium (I), 75mhz, 16mb, 500mb hdd compu somewhere in the basement. In time, I want to use it as a router/firewall box (is coyote a good choice?). But for now, I want to try to install some form of gui. Will Xfree 3.3.6 run on this compu? And which distro (pref a small and fast one) can I use? Vector, Peanut, Yoper, Debian? For now, win98SE is installed on that machine. So if *that OS* runs, there *has* to be a way to run a linux gui, or am I wrong? Remember, for me it counts that the installation should be easy and comprehensive...
Thanx

[moojuece]

slackware would be a good bet i think....that would run great on an older system like that

[jetblackz]

It'll probably run only command line and maybe one of those floppy Linux. Go to www.linux.org.

[LinuxLuke]

After searching and testing and installing I've found my distro, and that is Vector Linux (http://www.ibiblio.org/vectorlinux/) it's small, no bloat, east to set up, doesn't have tons of apps I won't use, it's Slackware based, and it's fast! boot up takes about 20 seconds on my PII 400Mhz with 160 megs of RAM everyone should check it out, there is a large version with KDE 3.1, and the normal version that uses IceWM as the default.

(sorry if this is kinda all over the place, I'm just excited about it :p)

[ptesone]

Originally posted by Kaligraphic
. . .I've been told that it's not as good to start with, but once I started using the man command, it worked fine. . .
I've recently switched from madrake to debian and was curious,
what is the man command? Do u mean as in manual commands???

just curious. . .

[Uberclocker]

Definatly libranet w/ fluxbox.
Plus if you're worried about recompiling your kernel, its as easy as going to adminmenu and selecting the recompile option. Very easy .

[mangeli]

LinuxLuke,

Would you care to write a review of it for tinyminds.org?

Fragadelic, one of the developers, is active on the site, and he had written a review of it before, however, I'd like to have a review of SoHo 3.2 for the site.

Let me know,

Mark

[Helius]

I prefer LinuxFromScratch.

I used Suse 7.3 as last "normal" distribution and I liked it. But now I think my LFS is best for me. For the people that are new to linux, I think Mandrake is the best choice. I haven'T used the newer Mandrake versions, but the older ons (7.0, 7.1) and it looked easy to me... .

But I would go one with LinuxFromScratch, because I like to have no setup tools like yast or something lake that...

[ashibaka]

My computer is a 333/56MB RAM, and Vector Linux allowed me to play full-screen movies.

I eventually had to switch to Debian because Slackware doesn't have a good packaging system (you try compiling everything on a 333MHz comp), but if your computer is 3-4 years old, I'd recommend Vector Linux.

[Tigger]

Originally posted by mangeli
LinuxLuke,

Would you care to write a review of it for tinyminds.org?

Fragadelic, one of the developers, is active on the site, and he had written a review of it before, however, I'd like to have a review of SoHo 3.2 for the site.

Let me know,

Mark

I had originally done the interview/review of VL and Robert before he asked me to join the team so it was not biased in any way at that time.

I've only officially been with the team since late December 2002 and SOHO 3.2 is my first release with them. We're still evolving as there are only 2 of us working on the distro. Robert does the normal VL version and I do the SOHO version.

[mangeli]

Originally posted by Tigger
I had originally done the interview/review of VL and Robert before he asked me to join the team so it was not biased in any way at that time.

I've only officially been with the team since late December 2002 and SOHO 3.2 is my first release with them. We're still evolving as there are only 2 of us working on the distro. Robert does the normal VL version and I do the SOHO version.

And I didn't say that review was biased... :D

However, it would be a little biased if I asked you to write a review of the current soho release?

[LinuxLuke]

Alright, I finished the Vector download, and I LOVE it, it has to be the best distro ever! there is nearly no trimming needed, plenty of installing to be done, but there is wth any distro. and good god is it fast, it boots in like... 15-20 seconds even on my PII 400Mhz with 160 megs or RAM

Vector is my new favorite distro!

[LinuxLuke]

I would be happy to write a review if it weren't for a few factors...
I don't have SOHO (dial-up, lack of money, unneeded packages, one of the things I like about the small version) and I don't feel I'm advanced enough to get all in-depth, I could review the installer and such, but nothing super involving. as I'm still learning, and Vector is going to help me on that.

if that's acceptable, I'll gladly do a review for you.

P.S.
Tigger, is it possible to buy the normal version? I went to the CD store and only saw SOHO, but I'd VERY much like to offer some support or something, I LOVE the distro!

[netp0et]

Well i am another linux user with a old system right i am running redhat 8.0 on a 350mhz 512mb ram and it isn't running as efficient as i would like it to do. I was wondering and thinking about trying something new something different but i would like to still keep redhat running on something because i would still like to get my RHCE certs soon.

Is VL really that good? And how much of a difference is there between RH 8.0 and VL? Considering that VL doesn't have a good packaging system which was mentioned by Ashibaka.

[netp0et]

i have been seeing more and more good reviews or should i say posts about VL i will have to try and download it and try it out and see how fast it really is because 15-20 seconds is far much better than 2-3 minutes for redhat 8.0

[mangeli]

LinuxLuke: That would be great! We're looking for any kind of reviews.

netp0et: Vector is based on Slackware. Its different than redhat in the way the system is layed out. I'd give it a go if you have a spare partition and you wanted to try something a little different. Of course, Slackware 9.0 just came out as well... and that could be a whole different barrell of monkeys...

[arioch]

Try Morphix.(the kde version) It's 300 megs big, Debian based, boots from cdrom, and instructions for a HD transfer are found on the desktop. The easiest install you'll ever have.

It's small, lite and FAST!:cool:

Libranet is cool too. I used for a long time.

ftp://dl.xs4all.nl/pub/mirror/drupal/Morphix/

[LinuxLuke]

I got it online! found a PCI sound card, freed up that ISA slot and tossed in an old modem I found, I didn't evem know if it worked, but I'm posting from a VL 3.2 install right now, so I guess that tells you that it indeed did work! I'll write up that review ASAP, just let the excitement wear off :P

[dysharmonic]

I've recently switched from madrake to debian and was curious,
what is the man command? Do u mean as in manual commands???


man command:

$ man command_name

e.g:
$ man ls

[Brocket99]

http://www.arklinux.org is a easy distro, and also only one CD to install. You also get to play Tetris while it installs :cool:
I'm on debian now, mostly because I didn't like the "Windows to Windows-Like" jump, but it's a good distro.

[itor66]

After playing musical distro's for awhile, libranet, debian, mandrake 8, evil entity, vector 3, k12ltsp and jamd linux, redhat 8.0 is my current linux. Why?

It finds my nvidia ti4600 out of the box, so to speak, and it didn't want to overwrite my hda (xp) mbr right away and i want a distro that can be used at work as well and redhat seems to have a good business base going.

And yes, kde is slow, but not painfully slow. Besides with what I learn on rh80, i can migrate to a faster leaner distro soon or at least IceWM again soon.

[dysharmonic]

Originally posted by itor66

It finds my nvidia ti4600 out of the box

Nice to hear that. Probably you've had the frustration of having an nvidia card to work in earlier versions of RHL... :D

[itor66]

Strangely enuff, Jamd Linux (rh based) and Libranet both found the geforce 2 with no complaints and no user intervention needed.

But they were allergic to the newer geforce 4, and redhat 8 wasn't. Therefore untill I am smarter I use redhat 8.

Besides, with the middleaged linux book collection I have, redhat figures a lot in what is covered.

[TomSi]

This question just like ask men which one of women is best,
8-)

[scriptkiddie]

Now that you mention it TomSi, which woman do you like best?

Serious question.

(this thread is too long to remain on topic, and no one is ever going to read it cover to cover again)

[dysharmonic]

But then again, I had to install RHL 8.0 in text mode since the all glorious graphical installation just refused to initiate... My monitor would always go blank upon choosing the default installation mode...

Hey, I got a announcement from RHL.com they're releasing RHL 9 in a week!

[sclebo05]

what is going to be 'new' in RH 9? anything worth upgrading to?

[MB[DK]]

Read the review @ osnews.com (http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3119) and decide for yourself.

I won't upgrade... Well actually I'm going from RH8 to Mandrake 9.1

[dkleinsc]

For aggregate:

I generally dual-boot 2 different versions of linux, 1 that I know works and 1 that I'm trying out because I think it will be an improvement. Once the version I'm trying works the way I want it, I make that the one the works and put a new test version where the older one was.

Having 2 linux systems is extremely handy if one of them breaks, too. You can use the one that's still working to access the other one and fix whatever's going wrong.

Something you may want to do though is set up a /home partition, so you're data sticks around no matter what system you're using.

[stevewabc]

Look At SuSE8.2 before make that move to Mandrake ...

SuSE is a GREAT OS to Look at. For Up Grades!!!

SuSE Is coming Up and most likly going to blow right past most Distros soon....

# 1 is Gentoo....

[Rayus]

My friend is looking to try out linux on his home machine as a windows replacement. Hes a pretty patient guy, and would love to give it a chance but his hardware is kind of old. Hes got a Pentium 133Mhz with 32megs of ram a 20 Gigabyte harddrive and the rest is unknown to me. I was wondering what distro would be best for him and his system? Any help would be great.

[LinuxLuke]

Well, for that hardware, I'd suggest Vector Linux (http://www.ibiblio.org/vectorlinux/) it's small, and blindingly fast, it's Slack based so your friend might need some help installing, not that installing Slack is hard, but people complain about the installer a lot

[jetblackz]

for a 180Mhz, 96MB RAM, 2GB HD, 12x CD PowerMac.

I'd be using it for light Web surfing, word processing and programming. Prefer xfce, icewm, blackbox, fluxbox as the default WM.

Thanks.

[irlandes]

Any of the main distros will perform the basic tasks you want, assuming you have a real modem, not a win modem, or can get a driver for what you have. And, you should be able to set it up for whatever window manager you want. If you want one which will set that one up for you automatically on install, the list gets really small fast, perhaps someone can help you there.

[dungscooperdave]

Yellow Dog Linux maybe? I've never used it, but it just looks like such a good distro (from their website anyway) for PPCs.

[dungscooperdave]

Originally posted by irlandes
assuming you have a real modem, not a win modem, or can get a driver for what you have.
I HIGHLY doubt that Macs come with winmodems..... ;)

[sharth]

debian perhaps.

[z0mbix]

Originally posted by sharth
debian perhaps.

ditto, i've only heard great reports of debian ppc

[yawningdog]

I've been using Mandrake for a while now and I like it just fine, but I think I'm ready to move up and learn more.

Which distro is the fastest, toughest, and most geek-intensive. I'm leaning towards Slackware. Any suggestions?

[Sepero]

Gentoo is the toughest and most geek intensive. About being the fastest though - That's a yes and no. It's slow because it requires you compile almost every package. It's fast because all the packages are optimized for your computer.

I personally use slack, but I'm thinking of switching to Gentoo or Debian... They really are the cream of the crop. :cool:

PS
Don't get me wrong, slack is great, but Debian appears to have it beat pretty well on package management.

[pgmlinux]

And don't forget to install spell check. . .

[Raoul_Duke]

Linux from scratch......not for the faint hearted ;)

[crymson_dragon]

Hey, Been reading up and listining in and decided to drop yea guys a question....

I been using linux on and off for the last year but havent been able to compleatly let go of windows yet cuz sometimes i do wanna play a popular game and whatnot and sometimes linux just drives me up the wall with small annoying problems....

I have use Caldera 3.1, Redhat, and Mandrake and i have no trubbles setting them up and getting everything to work properly but sometimes it forgets my internet setting and just refeses to connect even tho i have a non static cable connection, and also i have a wireless optical keyboard and mouse (Micro$sof unfortunatly) and sometimes linux will forget the usb mouse is there or it will only have one axis.... really annoying so i converted over to a ps/2 adapter.

I was wondering if you knew a book or a good website to learn to install and compile things from source and just be a little more of a power user cuz rpm's NEVER install for me cuz it says im missing a bizillion files...

Well any help is great (Y)

P.S - What is the smallest graphical version of linux, i have a heap of a laptop i wouldnt mind taking odd dos :P

[windowsfree]

I'm using a dual boot between RH8 and MDK 9.0, gotta say so far I like MDK better, it's easier and all my hardware works, even my soundblaster soundcard can't say that for RH8 it's properly configured and says it works, I guess I go deaf when I use redhat, I'd suggest mandrake for a newbie like myself.

[serz]

I would go for RedHat (that's what I'm using) or Slackware (I used it before). Great distros.
Of course that there're other good distros out there, Gentoo, Debian.. and others.

[sclebo05]

kids, i cant say this enough. the joy of linux is finding something you like and making it more so. the single most important attribute of linux is that you can customize/ tailor it to your needs. the kid found a disto he likes, then good for him. this community (linux) has revitalized my love for computing because of its ablility to adapt to any situation. long live open source/freedom to choose.

[horsepower300]

I would suggest the newest mandrake for a starter, redheat is a decent starter flavour i found that it has better drive support but mandrake is made for the noob!

I find Slackware simple but i hear its complicated so i dunno.

[KoalaBear33]

Yo sup...

I am a Linux newbie and would like to know which distro is best for me. I have never installed Linux on my machine before. However one of my roommates used Linux so I'm a bit familiar with it (I'm also familiar with command line OS like DOS so difficulty isn't an issue).

I'm unemployed now :( so I don't really have a good system and can't really upgrade/add new stuff (unless it's free :) ). I am presently running Win 98 + Windows 2000. I would like to install Linux along with those. The ideal solution would be to buy a new hard drive and install Linux on that but I can't afford that.

So my plan is to install Linux without modifying any of the hard drive partitions (or modify the partition without destroying the data), and to use the Windows NT Loader (instead of the LILO loader). From what I understand this can be done with distros like Red Hat and SuSE(?). Does anyone know anything more about this?

My ultimate goal is to become use Linux as my desktop OS more than 60% of the time (kind of hard to lower it since I play a lot of games :p ).

In any case, what is the best Linux distribution? In particular, I'm interested to hear people's opinions on Red Hat, SuSE, Slackware, and Mandrake. What I want most is a stable system, that will have no problems with hardware detection, and one that will be popular. Right now, I'm leaning towards Red Hat. But Red Hat seems more oriented towards business users (just my impression). Any thoughts? My criteria:


Must be able to run with existing Win98+Win2000, hopefully without repartitioning anything (or with a parition without loss of data)
Popular with users. I would like to be able to get help from others easily. I basically want a system that will last into the future.
size: I don't want to d/l something that is very large. I just need a basic OS with popular applications. If I need something I can d/l on my own--that's the beauty of Linux anyway
compatibility problems: Difficulty isn't a problem but I would like to avoid compatibility issues.


Thanks!

KoalaBear33

[netp0et]

Well i have been using Redhat 8 for a few months and it is ok but i must say it lacks support for webcams the webcams that actually work with it to be honest suck. Some people might know what i am talking about and then there are those that may not know but in this day and age if you want a webcam i would look for one with highly advanced CCD sensor. This can be found in Logitech's quickcam pro 4000 series. Why is it so hard ot get his cam working? though if it was possible to get this cam working i would be more than happy to through away my windows cds.

[Raoul_Duke]

OK, i'll try to help.

Most distros need you to re-partition in order to install. Linux doesn't use FAT or NTFS filesystems nativly (although it does support both to an extent)

If you are confident, use a 'soft' partitioning software package like 'partition magic'.........there's no guarentee it won't destroy any data!!

As for which distro is best......don't ever ask that here!! you'll start a huge debate ;)

Good first time distros are the main ones like RedHat, Mandrake, SuSe etc....

Most people here have tried a few before settling on what they believe to be the best.

My advice is to back-up what you can.........repartition, and play with a few distros that catch your eye.

:)

[je_fro]

Make sure to check out Gentoo during your tour-de-linux. Especially if you have fast hardware. The installation guide is excellent, and you'll learn a lot just from the install. Other than that, any of the distro's you mentioned would be fine. The main difference in GNU/Linux flavors is how the packages are managed, and RedHat & Mandy use RPM's which auto-resolve any pragram dependencies, while Slack doesn't. You'll have to do the research. Why not just collect the whole set, and see which one you like best?

[KoalaBear33]

Originally posted by Raoul_Duke
Most distros need you to re-partition in order to install. Linux doesn't use FAT or NTFS filesystems nativly (although it does support both to an extent)

According to some Red Hat documentation I read, you can install without partioning (I think this requires you to boot from a floppy). In any case, what I meant was to re-partition without reformatting a drive (my language wasn't clear). Apparently all(?) distributions allow you to do this. There are utilities available which will allow you to re-partition without deleting stuff on the drive.

As for which distro is best......don't ever ask that here!! you'll start a huge debate ;)


I know you guys don't want a war ;) but I really need opinions. I would love to try several of them but that isn't feasible (mostly because I'm on a low-speed DSL-like connection (faster than 56k but lower than cable)).

So what I need is YOUR opinion. I realize that it is highly subjective :)

KoalaBear33

[KoalaBear33]

Originally posted by je_fro
Make sure to check out Gentoo during your tour-de-linux.

Gentoo?? :confused:


Especially if you have fast hardware.

Nope.. don't have good hardware... so I guess I can ignore this gentoo thingie ;)

You'll have to do the research. Why not just collect the whole set, and see which one you like best?

Can't try all of them because my internet connection is slow :( Based on what I have read, I think I'm going to go with Red Hat.

Just state YOUR opinion. I don't care if it is subjective :)

KoalaBear33

[KoalaBear33]

Oh one more question...

When you download Linux from the various vendors, which version are you downloading? Many of them have a desktop version, a professional version, etc. There isn't any choice on what to download (of course I'm talking about the free stuff--not stuff that you bought and registered). So how do you know what is being downloaded?

Related to the above point, what is the difference between a server version of Linux and a client version (not the technical details but rather the package)? I know what client and server software are (I actually work in the computer field; unemployed now though). Linux is supposed to be free so how does the different versions (server vs client) work? Who is developing what? I was under the impression that Linux is free while software vendors provide added services for a fee. So how does a server version fit into this? Is that free too or is that developed by, say Red Hat?

One more thing... is there a free software development environment for Linux? Is there a free GUI for GCC or something like that?

Thanks for all the help :)

KoalaBear33

[Vaseline]

Knoppix? :)

[as649453]

Originally posted by KoalaBear33
Oh one more question...

When you download Linux from the various vendors, which version are you downloading? Many of them have a desktop version, a professional version, etc. There isn't any choice on what to download (of course I'm talking about the free stuff--not stuff that you bought and registered). So how do you know what is being downloaded?

Related to the above point, what is the difference between a server version of Linux and a client version (not the technical details but rather the package)? I know what client and server software are (I actually work in the computer field; unemployed now though). Linux is supposed to be free so how does the different versions (server vs client) work? Who is developing what? I was under the impression that Linux is free while software vendors provide added services for a fee. So how does a server version fit into this? Is that free too or is that developed by, say Red Hat?

One more thing... is there a free software development environment for Linux? Is there a free GUI for GCC or something like that?

Thanks for all the help :)

KoalaBear33

Differences between standard, pro or whatever other names is more a matter of marketing than anything else and differs from one distribution to another. For example, a standard distribution may be downloaded for free but the pro edition may contains commercial application and only sold in a box...

The difference between server and client distribution is simply that client one doesn't include or install server package. It thus takes less space and is easier to configure. As for Linux, they're both the same. It's simply the apps around the core that chage...

For the the free (like freedom) development environment, it's included in all major distributions and is called Gnome with all the GCC library.

By the way, you may want to give a look at Use Linux At Home (http://www.uselinuxathome.com/ENindex.htm). It contains information for people who want to do their first step in Linux and you may found there some answers to your question...

Hope this helps!

[Raoul_Duke]

Originally posted by KoalaBear33
Oh one more question...

When you download Linux from the various vendors, which version are you downloading? Many of them have a desktop version, a professional version, etc. There isn't any choice on what to download (of course I'm talking about the free stuff--not stuff that you bought and registered). So how do you know what is being downloaded?

Related to the above point, what is the difference between a server version of Linux and a client version (not the technical details but rather the package)? I know what client and server software are (I actually work in the computer field; unemployed now though). Linux is supposed to be free so how does the different versions (server vs client) work? Who is developing what? I was under the impression that Linux is free while software vendors provide added services for a fee. So how does a server version fit into this? Is that free too or is that developed by, say Red Hat?

One more thing... is there a free software development environment for Linux? Is there a free GUI for GCC or something like that?

Thanks for all the help :)

KoalaBear33

It's different for different distros.....decide on one and digest their homepage. Quite a few 'server versions' might not have GUI's.....but again check.

To start with, i recommend going with a standard version. For example RedHat 8

:)

[ye110man]

i would suggest repartitioning with partition magic for windows. then install mandrake. whether people think mandrake is superior or inferior, i THINK almost everyone would agree that it's the easiest install.

[JamminJoeyB]

my $.02

All distros have thier strengths and weeknesses. I installed Mandrake as my first time install. Then I changed to Evil Entity, then Slackware and back to Evil E. Evil E is just a revamp of Slackware without kde or Gnome. It uses Enlightenment as it's wm. As I learn more and get more confident I try differnt things. Since you will be dual booting I would post a request here for CDs of all the distros people have sitting around. I am sure they will send them without a problem. What have you got to loose on trying every Distro you can get your hands on. I'll burn you a copy of Slack 8.1 or Evil E (all I got sitting around at the moment) and send them to you to try.

[vampylestat]

the best distro for you is unknown to us all, it is up to you to find it! I've tried many distros, and I like them all! Everyone has their favorite distro, mine is (stars to shadow distro) and that's because I've learned the ways, the ins and outs. IMHO, there is no best distro, they all run kernels from kernel.org, they all run the same apps, although some distros make it easy for its users by packaging them.... I can't tell you what distro to try, because linux is a learning experience! :cool:

[prowriter]

I don't know some of those answers, but I can give you a couple of observations about Suse 8.1 and RH8.

Suse 8.1 found my WinXP drive (c) NTFS file system, and my partitioned data drive (d) FAT file system, and mounted them both for me automatically during installation, and show them as /windows/C and /windows/D. Both are totally usable, with no adjustments needed. RH8, which I also liked very much, had me doing this same mounting manually. I had to spend a lot of time figuring out how to get user's permissions to access both on RH8. (Not hard, but time consuming.)

Suse 8.1 comes with a thick, printed users' manual that to me, was easier to read and understand than the little installation one with RH8 and even the electronic versions. It has a lot of questions and answers in its format, and also tips on setting up and using various programs like GIMP.
Flo M

[KoalaBear33]

Thanks for all the feedback :) I appreciate the help... I'll let you guys know if I have any problems. Still haven't fully decided on the distro but I think it's going to be Red Hat 9 (which comes out on Monday).

----------

Evil E? Sounds scary ;)

KoalaBear33

[vampylestat]

Originally posted by KoalaBear33
Thanks for all the feedback :) I appreciate the help... I'll let you guys know if I have any problems. Still haven't fully decided on the distro but I think it's going to be Red Hat 9 (which comes out on Monday).

----------

Evil E? Sounds scary ;)

KoalaBear33

if you're impatient

http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/download.html

really fast download on my cable, hit up to 260KB/sec

[coolboy696]

I'm a new new user and I'm just wondering just before I go out and buy a version and delete window I want to know something. Because I'm sad to say I still like windows and want to keep it, if there was somekind of Linux that I could pop in a disk and Linux would be useable and workable, and when I take it out there will be know change to Windows. Could you tell me if there is such a thing like that. And if there is where can I get it. Thanz;)

[BFK4ever]

Yea! I got Redhat 9.0 from BitTorrent from WinXP, it's a very fast download, and I love BitTorrent so far :D!

[Hayl]

Originally posted by coolboy696
I'm a new new user and I'm just wondering just before I go out and buy a version and delete window I want to know something. Because I'm sad to say I still like windows and want to keep it, if there was somekind of Linux that I could pop in a disk and Linux would be useable and workable, and when I take it out there will be know change to Windows. Could you tell me if there is such a thing like that. And if there is where can I get it. Thanz;)

knoppix

[sclebo05]

knoppix - to elaborate, use this distro because it lets you 'test drive' linux without destroying your hard drive. It boots from a CD, and just on your system memory. If you like what you see, you can find another distro to install. Otherwise, no harm done.

[yongbeng]

My question is very simple...what is a linux distro???

[mdwatts]

Redhat
Mandrake
Debian
Slackware
SuSE
Gentoo

etc...

[Sepero]

Originally posted by Raoul_Duke
Linux from scratch......not for the faint hearted ;)
LOL, my bad. Yeah LFS is definitely the most geek intensive. I didn't really think of it because I don't consider it a real "distrobution". I tried LFS once... I made it about half-way through and said, "Frick! This is taking forever. Uhg, oh well, back to good ol' slack." :)

I do recommend Gentoo over LFS, though. Unless you just want to really, really, really know how linux functions, inside and out. It may take you about 20 to 40 hours or more if you want to builf a LFS system(a complete system, not just the base). Anyhoo, Goodluck.

[mrBen]

Distri=distribution=a 'packaged' version of Linux, usually in CD form, which comes with bundled software. Most distro's also include their own installation and management software.

[blamm]

Originally posted by mrBen
Distri=distribution=a 'packaged' version of Linux, usually in CD form, which comes with bundled software. Most distro's also include their own installation and management software.

Wrong answer. Distro = distribution. Period.

A distro is some creation of a particular set of packages put together by various Linux fans(masters) based on the linux kernel ( the core of these operationg systems).
These "disros", are based on a different types of package (software) management systems.
The commercial ones are boxed with manuals.
The vast majority are free for download or available for chump change on a CD ,or set of CD's.
www.distrowatch and
www.linuxiso.org are good starting places to get a feel for what each one does and the level of experience required etc.
I recommend Libranet/Debian for a newbie due to the ease of adding software packages for a Windoze user. It's a great starting point and version 2.0 is free to download and learn.

[JesseJames]

Basically there are different versions of linux made by different people, each of these different versions are a different distrobution.

Here is (what I hope) will be an easy way to exaplain it:
Say Linux as a whole was a car.
There are many different manufactorers of cars such as ford and volkswagon.
Each of these manufactorers use different designs of cars but they are all still cars.
These manufactorers represent distributers such as red hat and suse.
Manufactorers also make different 'classes' of cars such as sports and estate.
Distributers also make different 'classes' of their distro's such as client and enterprise (Like windows software has eg Office XP and Office XP Pro).

I dont think that makes much sence but you should (hopefully) be able to get the jist of it.

BTW Sorry about all the spelling mistakes:D

[nonz]

different groups of people making their own flavor of a linux based os

[yongbeng]

wow...I must say the response was not bad!!?!? so now....how do I go about making my own distro??

[dimitrylevin]

Originally posted by yongbeng
wow...I must say the response was not bad!!?!? so now....how do I go about making my own distro??

You definitely should not make your own linux distro. Linux distributions are usually made by large corporations or large groups of people. You should probably try Redhat or Mandrake.

[yongbeng]

yah...I sort of understand...but the problem is I need to make a very small footprint of linux so that it can run on a 230MB of hardisk...I believe redhat and mandrake can't do that....or any alternatives???thanks!

[dimitrylevin]

Only 230 mb? You can't really do much with that. You could try Debian, but it is much harder to install/setup/use for a newbie than redhat or mandrake.

[thraxll]

Originally posted by yongbeng
yah...I sort of understand...but the problem is I need to make a very small footprint of linux so that it can run on a 230MB of hardisk...I believe redhat and mandrake can't do that....or any alternatives???thanks!

check out distrowatch.com, ther are 100's of linux distros. many of them small, even some that run on a floppy....one that omes to mind is peanut linux.

i've been a linux user for 3 years and i wouldnt even thing of trying to "build" my distro. there are just too many goods one already and i don't have the skills to do such a thing.

try google for "small linux" or something after checking distrowatch.com. google is your friend.

[dimitrylevin]

Also maybe Vector (http://www.ibiblio.org/vectorlinux/) Linux?

[mike8706]

Goto http://www.linux.org/dist/index.html

[yongbeng]

while...I went to check out a few site you guys suggested...hmm..vector linux...is it GPL???meaning it's open source and I can distribute it???I don't want those guys come knocking on my door just becuz I installed on a couple of 486 system..but..thanks everyone!keeps those coming in...now then I realise that there's actually so many distribution of linux...amazing...

[dimitrylevin]

Yes, you can download it for free and distribute and install it on as many computers as you like.

You can download the iso here:
ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/vectorlinux/veclinux-3.2/iso
and then burn it to a cdr or cdrw.


Most major linux distributions allow you to download them and burn them to a cd. There are a few, however, that don't let you.

[marcus_x0]

"dungscooperdave" is right. i recomend yelow dog linux for ppc.

have fun

[adikgede]

Originally posted by dungscooperdave
I HIGHLY doubt that Macs come with winmodems..... ;)

1.
Thats right Macs don't come with Winmodems, but newer Macs do come with controlerless modems so same-same. To my knowledge Conextant hsf and hcf modems that come on newer Macs are supported. I have a Conextant hcf modem on my iBook and it seems to have installed okay. I haven't tried to configure it yet.

2.
The computer described by the original poster is of a vintage that the important question would be is the logic board a PCI bus or Nubus. If its Nubus you choices are more limited.

3.
I use Gentoo on my iBook and xfce doesn't work, I wish it did. blackbox, fluxbox, openbox and windowmaker work fine. I guess that icewm does also

4.
Debian or Gentoo are going to be the most up to date distros, allthought they have a steeper learning curve. The folks at forums.gentoo.org are friendly.

[mage492]

My recommendation is to go to www.linux.org click on the "distributions" button on the left, and search for what you want. Then, you can go to the home pages of each distro, to decide what you want.

Oh, in case you're wondering, I've got a RH 9 box and a Mandrake 9.1 laptop, and I've been more than impressed with both! As soon as I get a good feel for what I'm doing, I'm trying Linux From Scratch.

The beautiful thing about Linux: If it looks cool, try it. If you hate it, change it. Just keep experimenting until you find what's best for you! If all your stuff's backed up (or you're lucky enough to have an unused box to play with), what can it hurt?

[dysharmonic]

Originally posted by dkleinsc

Something you may want to do though is set up a /home partition, so you're data sticks around no matter what system you're using.

You mean a single /home partition for 2 or even more different distros?

I know this can be done w/ the swap partition.

Anyway, will there be any kind of effect when booting into any of the distro?

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

I never thought I'd become a zealot for a Linux distro, but DebianPPC is wonderful.

I'm running it on a PowerMac 8500, and it seems like a whole new machine! I just went ahead and reused the 500MB partition I had allocated for MacOS for Linux! Now this machine is single boot, booting directly into Linux!

[Monty67]

I have a copy of 3.2 (regular not SOHO) on order and when it comes in, its going on my machine which currently has Mandrake 8.2. Like so many others I don't dislike M8.2 (I actually joined the club) but I just don't like looking at all those "things" in my menu that I didn't ask to have installed.

When you first test the Linux waters I think its good to see all the things it can handle. But now that I have tried them, I have a funny feeling they are slowing my Celeron 900 down.

So please, give it the old college try and write that review.

[irlandes]

Originally posted by dungscooperdave
I HIGHLY doubt that Macs come with winmodems..... ;)

Ahem, so do I now that I see the words PowerMac. :-)

However, reading on, to my surprise, I discovered they do come with controlerless modems, which are essentially the Mac version of winmodems.

A couple years ago, a buddy in Mexico City had me buy him a copy of Linux PPC 2000. Over those two years, he has become a real linux expert.

[EnigmaOne]

Thanks for the mention of VL, Luke.

Now I have another distro to try out. :D

[Tigger]

For those that don't know about the differences in the versions, here they are:

Regular Vector Linux 3.2
Compact install to less than 500Megs. Includes both i386 kernels and pentium kernels,ide and scsi. XFree86 3.3.6 and 4.2.1 are included. Works really well on older machines with limited RAM or if you are just looking for a no-nonsense compact fast distro. IceWM and XFCE are included in the download version.

Vector Linux SOHO 3.2
Fullblown Desktop Linux OS. Includes only XFree86 4.2.1. Pentium kernel only, ide and scsi. KDE 3.1 is the default desktop but also includes IceWM and XFCE. OpenOffice.org and Koffice are included. The installer automatically configure XFree86 4.2.1,sound,network cards, mice, cdroms,cdwriters, and dvdroms. We include a GUI software install too called Software Plaza that allows you to install from local or internet or remove packages that are installed. The admin menu "vasm" is the swiss-army-knife config tool that allows you to change any of the hardware settings that couldn't be setup automatically, changes the default window manager for any user and can also change the system to boot directly to gui just to name a few functions. Apps like Evolution,Gnucash, and Phoenix are included as well. nVIDIA optimized drivers are automatically installed during the automatic hardware configuration portion of the install routine.

Our help forum is at :

http://www.mathomas.org/cgi-bin/veclinuxback/ikonboard.cgi

[Okie]

Vector Linux is cool, i have Soho and find it to be a good userfriendly distro with Slackware's stability...

lately i have been leaning towards these alternate distros and prefering distros like Vector,AltLinux,EvilEntity & etc...etc... over the major distros...

[jimlynch11]

GENTOO

it really doesn't get any better. a little learning curve, but it all pays off in the end because your system has exactly what you want on it, and only what you want. best forums and docs iv seen, friendly people, i can go on and on....

[rondob]

Would love to see VL and Libra port to PPC. My new (old) clamshell could take advantage of "smaller, lighter, faster"! I'm still not saavy enough for Gentoo or other source distros but would like to cut the fat out of some of the other BIG distros.

RB

[Monty67]

A bit confused. Are there 2 or 3 different kinds of releases??

ie Regular, Deluxe and SOHO?

Or is the Reg and Del the same?? :confused:

I hope its just me and my long day.


From the Vector site

"The VectorLinux team is proud to announce the availability of the Version 3.2 DELUXE edition CD. It features SUPPORT for PRINTERS, SCANNERS, USB HARDWARE and CDRW / DVD DRIVES. The CD includes the KDE-3.1 DESKTOP, XIMIAN EVOLUTION email and pim, OPENOFFICE-1.0.2, and GRAPHICS and DESIGN applications featuring the GIMP. There are several new MULTIMEDIA programs and libraries. The latest NETWORK applications and DEVELOPMENT programs along with their needed libraries are all included. Bottom line, there are over 200 programs and libraries ready to install as you need them !!."

[Tigger]

Deluxe is the purchase od the regular version. The extra apps are included on the CD for the user to install themselves.

SOHO includes most of them preinstalled.

Both of them fit on only 1 CD each.

[Monty67]

Makes perfect sense now.

Thanks for the reply.

[adikgede]

I am using gentoo on my iBook and I like it alot, but IMHO the documents leave a lot to be desired. I have 1.4 rc2 (or 3) and it comes with the installation guide for 1.2 because that is the most recent installation guide for ppc.

The guide has a number of errors which will make it hard to install without having to search the forums for help. Most of the errors seem to be that there just aren't enough people to tie up loose ends.

The docs say that emerge sync is optional (its not)

The docs say to mount the CD (its already mounted)

The kernel configuration notes are not current with the current kernel and in my case ADB keyboard support was not configured by default which unless somebody warns you before hand you will be disapointed the first time you try to login.

The yaboot.conf template on my installation had the kernel under / not /boot . maybe people will catch it and maybe they won't a simple correction that could save people a reboot if they recognize the problem or hours if they don't

Code listing 15.5 didn't work for me

#nano -w /etc/conf.d/net
#rc-update add net.eth0 default

but doing

#cp /etc/conf.d/net /etc/conf.d/net.eth0

helps you get around that.

The philosophy of installing a minimal system seems to be contradicted when you use emerge

# emerge kde
doen't install a minimal kde system but instead also include kde-edu kdeartwork kde-games and some other things that you may not have wanted.

In short I am saying its pretty its pretty rough around the edges. I don't think its too overbearing to populate the /etc/skel/ directory

not everyone knows about putting the command clear in .bash_logout

I still like it a lot, but as I said rough around the edges.

ag

[dacoto]

I have been running Mandrake PPC for a little over 2 years now and I have had 0 complaints. I use it for web browsing, web site development ie. Quanta, asp, php, perl, and various other web type programing. I have apache, php, perl, ssh and some other daemons running for testing things locally and such. The only thing that might be a concern for you is web browser plugins, I use Mozilla and the PPC version always gets last dibs on plugin development.

Hope this helps.

[carrja99]

Not as installing it, mind you. But to me it seems as if Debian would be the ideal distro for the regular person. With apt-get, they can easily download and install new programs, and it seemsit would be a great system for the regular user as long as everything is fine tuned and set up right.

Basically, I think that Debian has a chance of becoming a great distro aimed at the average user desktop market. What do you think?

[LinuxLuke]

I agree that apt-get would be great on a desktop (debian is next on my list of distros) but I'd have to suggest Slackware for a newbie distro, as I've heard that Debian teaches things the Debian way.

[carrja99]

I disagree. Joe Average won't want to spend his time compiling kernels, ditto with tracking down rpm dependencies. I am stating I think a fully configured Debian system would be ideal for the regular user. Add a great gui frontend for apt and they'd never even need to see the command line!

[rondob]

Installing Debian on my iBook right now. Has some minor install quirks (ie setup keyboard after partitioning if using non-stan keyboard). Have RH 7.3 on Desktop, never felt need to upgrade. Will let all know how install goes in a few.

RB

[blamm]

Originally posted by evil_roy
Debian suits newbies just fine you moron.

How the hell could you make it easier? Put it in a wrapper and say"Eat this..it is sweet"?

You have achieved SFA by installing debian or any other popular linux...except to declare that it is so much easier than windows. If you like ease and power then its off to OSX for you. Right now I'm back in the i386 world and debian makes Win2k look like a minefield.

Agreed. I didnt even have a Linux clue several months ago. I grabbed Libranet free 2.0. and did an apt-upgrade. Grabbed a .deb for my Matrox dual head and was back to my normal daily habits on a Debian machine in 1 1/2 hours or so.
I('ve since tried the dime store distros...RH, MDK,SUSE, I think SUSE has a Ginzu knife packaged now. 10.0 will be on 85 cd's loaded with over 1900 KDE wanna be's.)
I used Mozilla in Win2000(browser AND mail) so that was a breeze. A little reading at Debian .org to learn file manipulation/organization.
Not much to it.
I do, however ,have the ability to read and comprehend.:D
I didn't care for Xandros but it is a noob wet dream for a Linux distro.
Libranet 2.8 is targeted for my next purchase 'cause I like the company and the users forum/mailing list.
I vote Debian.
EVERYONE should begin with Knoppix just to get a feel for Linux and its apps. and then install something on the HDD to try.
Someone in love with Fisher-Price XP will love the new Mandrake 9.1.........

[Gaxus]

you don't have to compile a kernel when installing slackware :p

[zdude255]

I think that Debian could be a good starter distro, but not for everyone.

Debian's packaging system is just plain great. Kudos go to Ian for it.

However I think that the updating and installing is not something that the user does, you said yourself 'not for installation.'

Debian would be a good starter for someone technically minded, and not above working in a Terminal a little.

[busa_blade]

I think Mandrake is probably a good starter distro or RH depending on experience.

[NecroLin]

I just had a long conversation with my ISP. My computers were not resolving domain names when I was using their DNS server, but worked fine when I used any other DNS server. Their solution was: "your NIC doesn't work". It took one hour and fifteen minutes, sending them tracert's and pings with 75% packet loss to their DNS server before they believed me when I told them that the problem was on their end. Oh, by the way we tried 5 NIC's & multiple computers on this connection and all of them had the same problem. Hmmm....my parents goldfish seem to be more computer literate and intelligent than my local ISP's help desk. And you said that the average Joe should use Debian? I've used Debian....and....I don't think so. I love the distro, don't ge me wrong, and I love apt-get, but there is no way that the average person could get anywhere using this distro. Sorry. In 10 years yes, but not now. There are far too many people that are computer illiterate at this moment for Debian to become the average Joe's distro.


Sorry to disagree....but Debian still rocks.

[mchangun]

Mandrake's grmpi is really good as well. I havn't tried apt-get yet. I DO have some problems with dependency with MDK while downloading stuff with its package manager.

Will try debian next i suppse ;)

[carrja99]

yeah, but what I am saying is, if someone could set Debian up on someone's PC for them, configure all the hardware and stuff for them (or perhaps a new and improved installer) to meet thier needs, and then create a steamlined apt-get GUI front end, I seriously think Joe Average could use it as a desktop system.

I mean, all the apps they need are there, and if they need something, they can just apt-get it and it is downloaded and installed for them.... they'd never have to look at a terminal! And so far, any program I've apt-get for KDE is automatically added to the Kmenu, so the person would have minimal hassle.

I doubt Joe Average would be concearned with editing /etc files or anything and, quite frankly, if everything is set up right he doesnt need to. It's not as if he's running a Samba Server or httpd or screwing with iptables or something. :D

EDIT: But of course, for someone learning linux, start somewhere like Mandrake or something. I'm just saying I think Debian has potential to be dumbed down for regular people, yet still maintain it's power for technical people.

[sasKuatch]

Perhaps what you're shooting for is Debian bundled-software-style. That is, they pop in the restore CD and after ~ 30min. they have a working Debian system. This would work very well if a computer manufacturer would provide an option for buying a system preloaded with Debian (or any distro).

On another note, urpmi is great, expept for the fact that it breaks so often. I've been using my mandrake box for about a week or two and I'm already installing rpm's the old fashion way, sometimes even having to resort to the --force option. In a way, these RPM based distros are great because you have to compile for source all the time:D

As for dumbing down Debian, you can do that with any distro if you install everything during the install, because Joe doesn't need any other software.

[LinuxLuke]

USE VECTOR NOW!

[trn]

Originally posted by LinuxLuke
USE VECTOR NOW!

now thats not a very good review.

[Resident_Geek]

It sure got me hooked.

[Kaligraphic]

I started with Debian. It is fun and I, personally, happen to like the command line. It gives me a feeling of power. I like that I can do simple stuff without logging into X. I like that I can type 'nano /etc/inittab' or 'rm -rf /'. I do not, however, think that the average joe is able to handle that kind of power. No, the average user just plain isn't clueful enough to start with Debian. I did okay because I'm a tinkerer (and of Scottish descent), but not everyone has these advantages.

I don't know what distro I'd suggest, though, because I have some - shall we say - 'differences of opinion' with RH8, and I haven't tried Mandrake or any other 'easy' distro. Maybe it's time for me to try another distro to compare...

[serz]

I still think that Mandrake is the best distro for starters. Why? beause Debian installation could be a bit confusing, even for non-starters.

Edit: But yea.. apt-get is good :)

[sasKuatch]

Combine Mandrake's installation and config stuff (leaving the option to do it the l33t way, or course) with a graphical apt-get, and you could take down Redhat.

[hop-frog]

SuSE Linux. Accept no substitutes.

[plattypus1]

Isn't what you're saying basically just what Lindows tried to do? I mean, all Lindows is is Debian Woody 3.0, right?

[Brocket99]

Debian would be great for a starting distro. Alot of the people who are new to using computers in whole probably think of them as huge complicated calculators, with debian properly configured they'd have no false illusions there, but would have the power to ignore the engine. Windows puts the PC user into the spectrum of a mouse and a menu. That would seem extremely limited to a person who started with linux, debian (whatever), and who learnt that computers can be both user friendly and still have the power to kick the user in the ***.
I installed debian as my first, command line for a week, but that's what i wanted. My 11 year old brother and my mom is using my debian box with no second thoughts. I even got him going with the command line. He said he wants linux :). He was happy as hell when I showed him how many games there are available, and I don't know how many he tossed on here :P
Bottom line is, Windows is the Elementary to High School and also Home standard. Any person who starts with linux will learn twice as fast, or maybe alot faster than that, than a windows newbie, and will develop computer skills at no extra cost.
The only pitfall I see with linux ATM is the fact that it's free. Yes, wtf, :), I had tried last year to find a linux distro in my area, 100 miles around where I live, and the closest I could get was a special order from the library. Some linux distro has to become end user aimed. I'm sure the FSF would appreciate their X implementation spanking microsofts closed source crap, and wouldn't take to long to agree that a End-User aimed Distro that is commercial would be a good way to get linux going. I'd bet that all the major game companies have programmers that deal with linux, linux could take over the gaming scene, seeing as how linux usually symbolizes top of the line (The software brains, not the crooks). There's OpenGL projects, millions of others that all make Linux more Ideal than windows for any user.
All that would be needed would be a team of programmers and artists, maybe ones that have been working their *** off and enjoying the FSF for years, and a steady dev plan. I haven't even compiled a kernel yet, although I'm on the path and have a book 'understanding the linux kernel', but I'm sure things like windows gay restart to finish install could be implemented in a snap.
I'm rambling like hell and have thoughts flying in at light speed. lol. I'm too lazy to read through all of that to make sure i didn't screw up anything or be offensive.
But the bottom line is, Linux is best. BUT the only way to get it mainstream is with a Commercial Distro, Advertising, and Linux Loving individuals to kick start the project. Common, this has to get going before Windows and Intel's gay L2 cache plugged with spyware comes in.

[zie]

A newbie running RH or MDK will always be a newbie. I spent my first few months with linux running MDK, and I found myself asking questions in this forum. After I worked with LFS, which is a hardcore distro, I can answer some questions in this forum.

The fact is, linux is not for a PC-illiterate person. So my suggestions for linux newbies out there, use a hard to use distro and learn a lot of magnificent things. After you've learned enough, then you can switch to a more user-friendly distro to accomplish your future jobs.

[kam]

The fact is some people just don't care or don't want to learn about computers.

[rondob]

Well, for some the real fact is they need to be productive, rapidly. If one has to spend too much time fighting the os to become productive he will move to an os or distro that is less time consuming.

RB

[dannyman]

Originally posted by Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379
I never thought I'd become a zealot for a Linux distro, but DebianPPC is wonderful.


I dunno about Debian. As an (extreme) Linux newbie, examining the Debian materials is a bit like staring up at Everest from base camp.

I'm going with Yellow Dog. Looks friendlier.

[MorphiusFaydal]

look at this post i responded to for good mac-compatible distros.

http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96977

its about 3 replys down.

theyre all really good pick one you think sounds nice, and use it,.

[dannyman]

Thanks, MorphiusFaydal. Actually, I had spotted your post in my first search. I just ordered YDL 3.0 -- it just came out last week.

My anxiety about Debian comes from just downloading the disks for Linux m68k to (try to) install it on my old Mac Quadra 630 with the 68040 chip. Not the most reassuring first encounter with the Penguin.

Everything I read warns newbies off Debian as a first experience. But it's the only distro that runs on the old Motorola chips.

[adikgede]

I think that Net BSD also works on these

There may be some others as well, I think you would have found yourself more restricted with a performa 630 which is essentially the quadra without the math co-proccesor.

[wxcomputeradict]

After reading this thread I became interested in Vector Linux, but was wondering how hard it would be to support gnome on it. I have been running Mandrake 9.0 for about 3 months now and really like gnome better than kde, was wondering how much work it would be to add gnome to Vector since it says it comes only with KDE from what I read. Also don't you need the gnome libraries for certain programs to run? Thanks for any help. Now that school is winding down I really want to get into linux and learn more about it
Neil

[pythagras]

Originally posted by wxcomputeradict
After reading this thread I became interested in Vector Linux, but was wondering how hard it would be to support gnome on it. I have been running Mandrake 9.0 for about 3 months now and really like gnome better than kde, was wondering how much work it would be to add gnome to Vector since it says it comes only with KDE from what I read. Also don't you need the gnome libraries for certain programs to run? Thanks for any help. Now that school is winding down I really want to get into linux and learn more about it
Neil

The point of (the smaller) vector linux seems to be that if you need tons of gtk stuff, you'll have to download that stuff seperately. Its designed so you can customize from the ground up, and install via compilation till your hearts content. If you'd rather not do that, the larger version might be more for you.

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by dannyman
I dunno about Debian. As an (extreme) Linux newbie, examining the Debian materials is a bit like staring up at Everest from base camp.

I'm going with Yellow Dog. Looks friendlier.

What type machine is this? A PowerMac 8500? For Linux distros on an OldWorld box (what your machine probably is), you will have to boot from floppy, so that will make installation a bit more technical.

Actually, DebianPPC isn't hard to install. You just make the boot floppies, boot from the first floppy, and the installer is pretty self-explanitory. YDL is friendlier, yes, but the install process will be the same as Debian since you're running an OldWorld machine. Also, debian will probably be more flexible than YDL concerning memory, because any RedHat based distro is bound to install a lot of unneccesary items.

Heck, if you have problems with the debian install, you can always post your problems here!

[dannyman]

Sorry, I probably sounded confusing. I'm planning to put YDL 3 on a partition of my beige G3/300 which I upgraded to a G4/500.

My Debian experience is limited to the m68k distro I'm trying to install simultaneously on my old Quadra 630.

Two different machines.

[je_fro]

I run Debian bf2.4 (2GB HD...too small for Gentoo...) on a little 133MHz i586 with 64 Mb RAM and use Fluxbox. It hasn't let me down yet. I use Galeon to surf because Phoenix was just as slow...
There's always lynx, though...

[Modorf]

Currently have Yellow Dog 2.3 on my G3 PowerBook bronze, 400mhz.

It works. The graphics card is a bit chuggish and I'm wishing for a big hd (6 gigs) is tight for MacOS9.2.2 and Yellow Dog.

My experiance with YD is RedHat with apt-get on a PowerPC. To me that is that is the simplest way of describing it.

Nathan.

[GhostDawg]

Yeah I have Vectorlinux 2.0 on my IBM Thinkpad 233mhz system over a year now and very pleased with it.

As LL said, no bloat, and Slackware based, which I like also.

Been enjoying it every since!

[phil_patnude]

i like vl 3.2.
i've had the basic v. for almost a week
Its got optimized 2.4.20 kernels for 6x86 procs

its fast, light, and i've cut out a few things so i've got a pretty basic setup right now. plus all the software i've installed since loading the distro is from sources

flux
latest glibs & other parts of latest gtk
cups
gkrellm
xine + ui
trying to get Gimp to compile, as well, but it wants me to go back to older versions of gtk
So, clearly one could load Gnome onto their Vector Linux setup if they wanted

Its been running without a hitch (or a reboot) for the past 3 days

Its a good dist, I'd recommend it for slower machines (like mine) as well as newer, faster ones. (I'm sure if it can run as fast as it does on my circa-1996 celeron system, it'll scream on a p4 or athon xp)

EDIT: By the way, I was running Slack 8.1 before, so the tgz package system isn't a problem, I never saw a big diff between tarballs and rpms anyway. I do like the concept behind the internet part of the "vecpkg" program; if i really used it (and if you could change the servers & dirs you could connect to) it'd be great for anyone wanting to download binaries and install them

[rondob]

Just spent the last week messing around with Debian, Yellow Dog 2.3, and Mandrake 8.2 on my iBook (300MHZ, 320MB RAM, 6GIG). Deb wouldn't run x regardless of what I tried. YDL, same story... hung loading x. Mandrake loaded (easy), runs fast enough for me, and with KDE is enough like my RH 7.3 Desktop that I haven't had to relearn much. I believe it may be necessary for a person to try a few Distros until he finds the one that works well with a particular machine or hardware setup. Will be sending Drake $ to keep developing.

RB

[sharth]

Backup your Xconfig for safe-keeping in-case a new version makes X go crazy or something. Just in case :)

[dungscooperdave]

Originally posted by adikgede
4. Debian or Gentoo are going to be the most up to date distros, allthought they have a steeper learning curve. The folks at forums.gentoo.org are friendly.
Kernel 2.2, XFree86 4.1, and KDE 2.x don't exactly strike me as being up-to-date.

[Trident]

Have just installed Mandrake 9.1 PPC on a 667 MHz Ti PowerBook and it's running flawlessly. Can even connect wirelessly to the internet with Airport. Have 500MB memory installed. You can run OSX in a window while in Linux using Mac on Linux (MOL). Have run Adobe Photoshop 7.0 while in Linux without probbems using MOL.

[GnomeProject]

What would be the best distro (fast, and used mainly for networking, file sharing, writer papers, and playing music) for a compaq presario 1230 laptop... It has a cyrix multimedia 233mhz processor, with 32mbs ram (soon to be 96), a 4 gig hdd, winmodem (I know these are hard to configure for linux), cd-rom and floppy... Thanks everyone.

PS. Someone suggested Slack 4.0 or Redhat 6.0????

[chucksaysword2]

Could try Vector Linux. It's based on Slackware, is small, and runs well on older hardware.

Debian could also work. Really any distro could work. It's just finding one that suits your needs (and tastes).

[GnomeProject]

So, how would I remove a lot of the features usually installed with linux...and optimize system performance for low memory as well as low processing power??? Do I, and how do I if I do, pass kernel paramters??? and what are they?

[serz]

Forget Slack, it will be a pain in the *** installing it in your compaq. Get Redhat 8/9 cds and install it :)

Luck.

[GnomeProject]

Thanks for the reply... but how would I address random services running and then install with just a lightweight manager??? Do I have to in stall Gnome, then install a manager via Gnome??? Thanks.

[myshkin]

slackware and vector has a great setup. it querys every package installed with a description so you can decide which to choose. you dont need a window manager to install another. if you are dual booting with windows, simply download the wm you want on you windows drive, after you are done with the setting up of linux you can get the source from your win partition and install it from the command line. another way i do it, is wget the wm package off the net, if you have wget. not sure for redhat, but mandrake has it.

[ChaosCommand]

GnomeProject, I myself am using a compaq computer (not for long though :D )

I will take you through my expereinces.

Mandrake - great.... but if your computer has a usb keyboard, or maybe it is a compaq keyboard in general, you will have some problems (like typing 2 letters than just 1, even if you don't want to)

Red-Hat - Don't get 8.0, for some reason, the installer. I could only get 7.3 before. Now I can get 9.0 and it works great. It is currently what I am running.

Slackware - Keyboard again. (Just buy a new one like I will)

Gentoo - Keyboard even again, and Gentoo has a complicated install... very complicated, so I am sure gentoo won't last much longer.

SUSE!!!!! - Will not work at all, it barks at my computer for the BIOS, and for the Compaq. I tried everything, I just guess my computer was not supported. I would say it would be a waste of time to even try, but who knows?

Debian - Again the stupid keyboard (I can't wait until I get a non USB keyboard)


Most of them, actually, almost all of them didn't work because of Compaq's keyboard. I am positive it wasn't USB since I built it in, and looked up all the documentation, and tried different forums, I guess it just doesn't like Compaq hardware.


But I won't be complaining much longer. Because my new case is on the way, and I will eliminate the Compaq name from my computer :D

[GnomeProject]

Thank you for the lengthy response.... I am currently trying to get it loaded onto a Compaq Presario 1230 Laptop and was wondering if I install Red Hat 9.0, could I somehow just install a minimal wm like ICEWM or something like that? Without installing Gnome and all those??? or should I not do that b/c I do want to run Open Office, MP3/OGG players and so forth...most require Gnome. That said, how would I install RH 9.0 with the minimal amount of services and stuff as not to completely drain the comp. One more thing, I did get 7.3 to load properly, however, it was dirt slow...I mean crazy slow. Any suggestions??? Even with Openbox running it was dirt slow. Also, had the same problem with 8.0...don't know what's up with that??? One last thing, do you know if the Compaq Presario 1230 laptop I have supports HDD larger than 4gig or even 10gig. I am currently having trouble with my 20gig drive I am trying to put in it...even thought I updated the BIOS and all.... Thanks.

[bazoukas]

What Distro you gave it a try just for the heck of it and it took you by suprise making you leave the distro that YOU JUST LOVED at that time?

Suse did it for me. I was on redhat8 and I couldnt and didnt even want to think of going to a different Distro. I gave Suse a try just for the heck of it.

I coulndt stand the green color and the lizard. It actually pissed me the first few days. But now, I only use SUSE :eek:

[seron]

Gentoo - Keyboard even again, and Gentoo has a complicated install... very complicated, so I am sure gentoo won't last much longer.

You realize the amount of people that use Gentoo has actually grown right and continues to grow? Gentoo is also fully funded.. and is 4th on Distrowatch. So uhh I guess you're right, they won't last much longer.. for people like you.

[chrism01]

As far as RH goes, once you get the extra ram in, you'll prob be ok. eg I've got RH 7.2 on 200MHz Pentium Pro with 128 MB ram and quite a few services and speed is not a prob.
As has been noted elsewhere, because of the modular design of Linux ie the services are separate from the OS (unlike MS), initial load of anew service can be slow, but once up its quick from thereon.

Use the custom install option to only install pkgs you want.
If in doubt, install more than you need, then de-activate any services you don't want via ntsysv/tksysv/chkconfig/redhat-service config.

HTH

[GnomeProject]

Thank you everyone.

[hwb0014]

As seeing you are a newbie..I would suggest Redhat or Mandrake as a starting point, as I haven't used Caldera for several years since I worked with NDS tree structure. I for one use Slackware, but requires you know your hardware well.

[hwb0014]

Results

what is the best Linux?

Mandrake (26%)


Red Hat (25%)


Other (11%)


Slackware (11%)


SuSE (11%)


Debian (11%)


Caldera OpenLinux (1%)


2373 total votes

[Sepero]

I don't like distro disputes. There's always another distro that you might like better tomorrow.

I support Linux. (sorry)

[adikgede]

Originally posted by dungscooperdave
Kernel 2.2, XFree86 4.1, and KDE 2.x don't exactly strike me as being up-to-date.

What you are talking about is Woody which is the latest stable release of Debian. Debian snapshots are typically conservative. They don't have target dates. You would never see anything like Red Hat 5.0 coming from Debian. You won't see something as buggy as automount in Mandrake in a stable release of Debian. You failed to mention that 2.4 is an optional kernel under Woody. You also ignored the date of the post which was only three weeks after YDL 3 came out and before MDK 9 for PPC came out. So how out of date is Woody compared to YDL 2.3 or MDK 8.2?

All of this ignores the simple fact that while Debian milestones are conservative the software in the testing and unstable branches are probably going to be the most continuosly up to date software for PPC.

Packaged based distros like YDL MDK and SuSE seem up to date when they first come out but I think the small user base means fewer updates between versions.

[dungscooperdave]

Originally posted by adikgede
You won't see something as buggy as automount in Mandrake in a stable release of Debian.
Gee, I've never had any problems with supermount -i -f=/etc/fstab -m=/mnt/cdrom disable before.
You failed to mention that 2.4 is an optional kernel under Woody.
I was never given this option when installing Woody.
You also ignored the date of the post which was only three weeks after YDL 3 came out and before MDK 9 for PPC came out. So how out of date is Woody compared to YDL 2.3 or MDK 8.2?
Since when are you not permitted to buy a distro that is out already, even if it's only been out for a couple of weeks? Oh ya, I forgot, you use Debian Woody, you don't care about being up to date.
All of this ignores the simple fact that while Debian milestones are conservative the software in the testing and unstable branches are probably going to be the most continuosly up to date software for PPC.
I thought you said automount was buggy. You probably don't have any unstable software on your machine then, right?

[sharth]

Originally posted by dungscooperdave
I was never given this option when installing Woody. Lets not start a flame war... It is not an option per say. On the installer, instead of merely hitting enter, if you type bf24 then you will get a 2.4 kernel installed. You should be able to apt-get a 2.4 kernel anywho. (perhaps not, I don't have much experiance with stable).

Debian has some problems. I would like supermount, but i haven't gotten aruond to making it work or even trynig to make it work yet.

It's a distro people. Some people at red hat liked apt, so they ported it to work in their distro. It's the beauty of linux. We all can get comfertable in our own little niche distro. If we can't find a niche, we can make one if we have the will to do so. Pick a niche, get comfertable and let others be comfertable in their niche. Theres nothing to get all worked up about.

This thread started out as a question to find out what people's exoectations with certain distros on ppc were. There really was no reason to start a flame war. I use debian, I admit (oh god no), that stable is old, as is testing (X is 4.2.1). Unstable is not all up there as well, but it gets there.

I just don't see why you guys are fighting over something pointless.. atleast its pointless imho. correct me if I'm wrong.

[adikgede]

Apologies to any one who felt I was stirring things up. I just wanted to point out that although the it may be factually correct that Debian Woody includes linux 2.2 and KDE 2.2... that this does not acuratley portray what Debian is. or how current the available software is. I don't personally use Debian PPC. So no one should be under the impression that I was evangilizing for Debian. I have four computers at home two use Red Hat, one uses Smoothwall, and my iBook uses Gentoo.

Back to the subject of the thread. IMHO Debian and Gentoo might be more difficult to install but apt-get and emerge make continuous updates easy. With MDK and SuSE I would be conserned that a small user base migh effect their permanance. YDL seems to be pretty popular so their is a lot of documentation in their mailing lists.

[mak2k]

I was wondering if there are other distros out there that has amazing package installation (like debian with apt-get and gentoo i-forgot-its-name :D). I have already used Mandrake and Red Hat and the dependencies are just annoying!

I am trying to get my debian working at home (can't install x windows) and it doesn't work. I just read really cool stuff about gentoo but the installation time is gonna horrible. The linux box that i'm trying to run (dead computer.... experiment!) is a p2 266 with 256 of ram. According to the thread on gentoo, strong machines like 1000+ installation took days... so with a 266, it's gonna takes years????????

So is there any other distro that is powerful and have apt-get ish type of commands?