Which Distro?

[z0mbix]

You should use Debian for this.

[barguy]

I wondered the same thing. I spent 30+ hours with Debian while watching it kill my Windows install and never getting a mouse or X to work. I tried downloading Redhat and decided a 13 hour download of CD1 on my cable modem was too long not to mention CD2 and3.

I tried SuSe and the install was simple. I have had no hardware issues like with Debian. It saw the Win 2000 install and included it in the GRUB bootloader. Application software selection was simple and worked well. The whole process took about 1.5 hours total from start to finish. Only a small boot loader download was necessary to get started, the rest downloaded as needed from the Internet.

Give SuSe a try.

[valadil]

I recently helped a couple newbs through installing linux. One was my roommate who was a mac user. Because we lived together I had no problem setting up debian for him. Debian's menus include enough stuff that he can usually find any program he wants, and if not he knows how to open a terminal, apt-cache search, and apt-get insall stuff (I gave him a cron job to update apt nightly).

My cousin lives 5 hours away so I couldn't help too much with his install. However he's a script kiddie so I though he'd be able to read documentation or get help from irc. He went with redhat and is still having trouble with it months later.

I maintain that linux is fine for newbs, they just shouldn't have to deal with installing it till theyve used it for a few months. Considering that the big problem with debian is installation and initial configuration, as long as a guru can install it, debian is the ideal system for a newb to learn linux on.

[nothingbutlinux]

I started out using SuSE ... that was a great distro for a beginner. The installation was easy, it guided me through setting up a dual boot system. I'm glad I did that rather than Debian. But now I have Debian on all my systems, and no more SuSE. Apt-get was the clincher for me, it made keeping things updated sooo much easier. I find Debian more stable too, even the "unstable" version.

[Gaxus]

Debian is not 'user-friendly' enough for a total newbie!

I'm running Debian only for the reason of APT.

Dselect needs improvements, but overall the apt system is great- best package management system so far imo... installation could be easier too.

I wish I could get a kind of ultra-minimalist distro without all the bloat, yet fully supporting apt.

[barguy]

I tried Debian first and after 30+ hours of never getting a completly working install (mouse problems, X failed, destroyed my Windows partition) I went to SuSe. 90 minutes later I had a full working system that didn't eat Windows.

There is a lot of power in Debian but I think its best to know linux first before installing Debian.

I'll go back some day and try it but for now I'll stay with SuSe.

[sourturnip]

As a newbie myself currendly using mdk, and considering debian. I actually came accross

http://www.distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=bonzai

They claim to be a slimmed down version of debian with an easier installation process. Also says that it can be used as a replacement for the install disk for debian(i.e. use bonzai linux with debian's application install disks).

Anyways, has anyone tried it? Thoughts?

glenn

[l01yuk]

I've never tried it but libranet http://www.libranet.com is supposed to be debian with a good installer.

I agree, debian is the best for the newbie if it set up for them. Not least because apt will keep their security and programs up to date, but also because they do a little more work to the packages and get them a little _more_ stable. Which can't hurt.

Until ither distro's catch up with the dependancy thing I can't see them breaking the mainstream computer market because it is a real pain in the **** sorting them out.

[dysharmonic]

Doesnt SuSe have boot loader programs (LILO and GRUB) off the CDs?

[barguy]

I don't know. I was trying to get into Linux by downloading different ones to see what happened. The SuSe site only downloads a boot loader that then downloads the package & apps from mirror sites. That was different from Debian and Redhat (the others I tried) that required at least a full CD download.

Maybe the purchased CD set does both. Maybe the download gave me a choice but I don't remember seeing it.

[oubipaws]

libranet is the best for someone wanting to try debian, or just wanting to try linux

[CrashTestDummy9]

Originally posted by barguy
I tried downloading Redhat and decided a 13 hour download of CD1 on my cable modem was too long not to mention CD2 and3.



Give SuSe a try. I dont understand why it would take 13 hrs to download 1 cd on cable when it took me 1 hr 20 minutes for each CD on my DSL.:confused:

[barguy]

I'm not sure either. I didn't wait the whole time. I gave it about 30 minutes then decided I would go elsewhere when the download estimate was still 13+ hours. My assumption was Redhat would rather me purchase than download so they were restricting the bandwidth.

Debian and SuSe both downloaded extremely fast on the same machine and connection. The SuSe download was only a few minutes after the Redhat. Maybe I'll try Redhat again some day but for now I'll stay with SuSe.

[CrashTestDummy9]

Originally posted by barguy
I'm not sure either. I didn't wait the whole time. I gave it about 30 minutes then decided I would go elsewhere when the download estimate was still 13+ hours. My assumption was Redhat would rather me purchase than download so they were restricting the bandwidth.

Debian and SuSe both downloaded extremely fast on the same machine and connection. The SuSe download was only a few minutes after the Redhat. Maybe I'll try Redhat again some day but for now I'll stay with SuSe. SuSe is a good distro.I never had any luck with it but Ive read where others really like it.I prefer Mandrake for easy installation and set up.Debian is pretty easy for a mid level(?...lol) distro.

Bottom line is to use the one that suits your needs.Ive tried about 8 different distros and am kinda bent towards Mandrake.

[mage492]

No problem! I, myself, keep waiting for them to make a distro for the old Motorola 68000 processor. Unlike later 68k Macs, the 68000 doesn't have a MMU (memory management unit), so people say it'll NEVER be made. I just wonder if there's a way to emulate one with software (like they can with FPUs).

[Drago]

Putting the installation aside debian is a great distro. I mean, dependencies alone can scare off someone new to linux and with apt a newb would never have to worry about them. But they would definetly have to get the system set up by a guru.(install is hell!, especially with a newer system)

[adhall02]

Debian was my first distro. I did need a lot of help on installing, but I love debian. I have learned a lot and I am still learning. I would say that debian is a great newbie distro.

[rocketmonkey]

yo homies, what files should I use to build a jacked up phat LFS system? I want mostly unstable files because I want to beta test these bad mamajamas

[JamminJoeyB]

Slow down there a minute. You could do a lot of different things, but I would suggest that if you looking at doing beta testing you do it on a stable system. If you are running betas on everything you may not know why something errored and crashed.

My first suggestion would be to just run the 2.6 kernel. Since it's still beta and not official I would start there. It would also help with identifying bugs that need to be ironed out before it's released as a stable.

Running all betas or alphas of everything spells doom if you ask me.

Just build your LFS system with 2.6 and stable releases of everything else.

That would get you on your start to a phat (as you put it) LFS system.

[rocketmonkey]

thanks g... yo I didn't mean all unstable sheezies, I just meant some, mainly the kernel (2-6test1). GCC and others will be stable editions.

Anybody got a recommendation on good apps for linux to add to this phat list?

[gretchen]

I set up a Debian box for some relatives who weren't able to pay for another copy of Windows when their machine crashed. (hand-me-down computer so the CD's had been lost)

Currently they are having no trouble using it. I stop by from time to time and make sure they have all the software they need. Mostly it's an internet and game machine, so they don't need much.

[ricstr]

You haven't said what this distros purpose will be? Will it run in Text Mode or Graphical?

[rocketmonkey]

I'm building a Audio/Programming system for my workstation....
I am putting in the ArTS sounds server with kde and openbox with gcc 3.2 (or whatever the newest is)

[evulish]

You're building an audio system with _ARTS_? Eek. Maybe try ALSA or OSS. :)

[ricstr]

http://www.soundtracker.org/ :D

[iGuy]

can not believe that I am posting another reply to this thread. But I am.

I am posting 'cause I have to second what CrashTestDummy.9 just said. Use the one that works for you.

What I don't get: Every forum that mentions Linux distros on the planet has a thread that wants to know what the best distro is. Eventually, that thread comes to the conclusion of "what ever works for you."

I have spent serious money on CDs and serious time trying to install, to my liking, various distributions of Linux on various systems over the last three years. The truth is, that I am always thinking that the kernel is always faster on the other side of the hill. Or that the graphics do me right in this [foo*], or here, at least, I have my sound card. I do not regret the money I have spent on CDs. It supports the effort.

But I am running virgin (no other OS), and have been for quite some time. First it was an old, in the grave, intel PC. Now it is a new ppc (iMac). Still Linux. Yes, some distros offer better upgrades then others (I like apt-get). But Linux is Linux, and GNU is GNU.

So, why can we not get beyond the fact that free is not free as in beer -- but free as in freedom? Why can we not keep Linux in the spirit of a student that surpassed minux, and realize that what we must do is preserve what we have -- before it turns into what we lost?

Never mind. I am just full of it.

[spaceboy99]

Does anyone know of a LiveCD Distro with Ximian Desktop 2 on it? There's an XP machine in my office at work that I'm itching to use Linux on instead, but not being an admin I can't just wipe the system, or even really make partitioning changes. And yeah, we use NTFS, so that rules out Linux-on-FAT...

spaceboy99

[bsm2001]

I dont know of a single one. I did try the XD2 from ximian and couldn't getany web stuff to work after.
RH9 had to wipe and reinstall to get just plaain old GNOME back.

It looked good but lost alot of the system userfriendliness of gnome with XD2.:confused:

just use knoppix and all will be good.

[spaceboy99]

Yeah, I've been getting a lot of that. The thing is, I really can't stand the way KDE looks. If worst comes to worst I could do that, but I even prefer the WinXP "Fisher Price" look to KDE's "can't read an HIG" interfaces. I would much prefer even just a GNOME-based LiveCD... Ximian is extra icing.

BTW, I don't mean to diss the Knoppix project. The Knoppix LiveCD is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen...

spaceboy99

[bsm2001]

Come to think of it you might try suse live cd but not sure if it has GNOME on it though.

[spaceboy99]

Thanks for the tip--I'll check it out! Any other ideas out there?

[bsm2001]

one more this looks interesting!!


demo linux (http://www.demolinux.org/)


SAYS IT HAS GNOME AS THE WM.

also LINUX ISO (http://www.linuxiso.org)

[o0zi]

What about Gnoppix (http://www.gnoppix.org/) or Morphix (http://morphix.sourceforge.net)?

Gnoppix is Knoppix with GNOME, and Morphix is a modular version of Knoppix, so you can customize it to have whatever desktop environment you like. Morphix also has several ISOs, one with KDE, one with GNOME and one with XFCE.

[mandrakeroot]

Originally posted by o0zi
What about Gnoppix (http://www.gnoppix.org/) or Morphix (http://morphix.sourceforge.net)?

Gnoppix is Knoppix with GNOME, and Morphix is a modular version of Knoppix, so you can customize it to have whatever desktop environment you like. Morphix also has several ISOs, one with KDE, one with GNOME and one with XFCE.

I agree. Morphix sounds like the best bet.

[jetblackz]

Morphix 0.4 LightGUI is the best, IMO, if you're just wanting a liveCD as opposite to a full-brown Debian system. The new XFCE beats anything I've seen. It's still somewhat lightweight and very stable. I left it on all day running copies of Firebird, a calculator and a terminal without a problem.

Knoppix, on the contrary, gave me trouble. I couldn't leave Mozilla running for hours. It can't not crash. When it does, you can killall it, but the buttons will freeze and respond to no one. Knoppix is good if you plan on installing your own apps and fine-tuning it. That defeats the purpose of live.

Edit: you're in for a surprise if you try to mount a floppy in Morphix. You can't. Without su'ing and vi'ing /etc/fstab. Their forum doesn't mention this. Also, missing are mkfsdos & mkfs.vfat. I'm not sure if the team ever wrote anything to floppies.

[spaceboy99]

Morphix does sound intriguing--I'm going to give it a try! As you say, the new XFCE is stunning. Gnoppix sounds (to me) even better... unfortunately, the site is all in German. Does anybody know if it can be run in English as well (a la Knoppix)?

/anglocentric

spaceboy99

[chiatello]

knoppix-std


has gnome/kde not sure about ximian, maybe


knoppix-std.org i think, but dont quote me on that

[jetblackz]

Morphix HeavyGUI has Ximian Evolution and Gnome 2.x.

As for the Gnoppix, if it's based on Knoppix, I don't see why it doesn't support English. At bootup, enter "lang=us" perhaps.

[thaleus]

Very much a matter of personal preference, so there is no best, only a best for YOU. I use RedHat mostly, however I do like Suse, and to some lesser extent Mandrake as well. Mandrake has a lot of good support. Checking into rpmfind.net is a must if you have Mandrake, Suse, RedHat or just about any other rpm based Linux. I have used Linux for 9 years now, and like it quite a bit, though I must admit to being a BSD bigot. Hahaha. Anyhow, good luck.

[Nuada Storm]

Isn't this question like asking the pharmicist which condom is best?

If it gets the job done and has the best feel for you then it is the best version for you.

Same can be applied to software, cars, music and many other things in life.

[bproffitt]

I thought this thread might have a better home in /dev/random now, since it seems to be meandering a bit.

Peace,
Brian Proffitt

[spaceboy99]

I downloaded Morphix LightGUI and checked it out (although not on the system in question). It looks great! I have one more question, though, in case somebody knows the answer in advance. Since the system at work runs XP, it's got NTFS5 or whatever, so I don't want to risk mounting the drives. So I was wondering if Morphix supported USB smart-media drives; that way I could do actual real work there. My only other options kinda suck... like maybe tunnelling NFS/TCP over SSH to a machine at home behind my firewall (yech). Of course, I could probably RTFM or better yet just try it, but right now I have the basically unsupported Zio SmartMedia drive and I don't want to buy a new one for nothin'. As an alternative, are those generic "mass storage" usb flash memory drives supported? I've kinda been wanting one of those anyways...

spaceboy

[matrixcubed]

What you may consider doing, is downloading one of the more user-friendly distributions, install it, play around with it, break something then try to fix it, etc... after you're comfortable with the basic operation of Linux, then investigate what differences exist between distributions (i.e. which have package management/RPMs, which have portage updating, which are most UNIX-like, which are useful for LAN->ISP networks, etc) and go with one of those once you have more experience (and less hair from pulling it out).

:)

[o0zi]

I don't think Morphix has support for them, but you could go on the website and ask for it as a feature in Morphix 0.5.

[dohcmark8]

Ok, im short on cds and I only wanna waste one, Let me say first that I like the way RH runs and looks. Now, which one? Knoppix or Suse will give me a better experience?. Is the Suse live eval like a demo, is it missing any features or is it a full blown OS?. :confused:

[serz]

I would take Knoppix :D

[GhostDawg]

Here is a new LiveCD called Mepis (http://www.mepis.org/). It's based on Debian and looks & run pretty good. Easy to install to HD. I think it may be easier to install then Knoppix.

[feight]

I think most people who ask the question are the ones that haven't taken the plunge yet, so I would have to say if you are ready to go head first, a simple distro like mandrake or SuSe is the way to go, or if you are paranoid about leaving everything you know about windows behind try something like lycos or lindows (haven't tried them yet). Of course from my experience with SuSe and Mandrake they make keeping windows on the side pretty easy for new users.

For any experienced user I would point back to the "what you need = what distro you should use" quote.

[arioch]

I've been through a lot of them. And to me, Morphix is the best.

[hecresper]

I just posted this from Damn Small Linux which is based on Knoppix:

http://www.damnsmalllinux.org

[DerekKraan]

You don't 'install' a LiveCD distro. :P

Anyhow, Slackware has one, but I think it only comes with the packaged version...so that doesn't help you at all, does it?

[PacGirl22]

I was terrified of the learning curve between Windows and Linux....so I went with Lycoris. Seems to be good right now. You get windows familiarity while learning a new operating system and new ways of doing things. Installation was 25 minutes on one CD and minutes later I was playing a CD and was on the web (despite my fears, the ethernet/cable modem worked perfectly). Though now I'm intrigued by RedHat 9.0, just finished downloading it and once I figure out how to burn it in Linux I'll give it a spin.

pacgirl22

[dysharmonic]

Windows familiarity?

Lindows 4.0 should be able to handle such issue pretty well..

Anyway, what's the verdict on it?

[PacGirl22]

Lycoris is free. Lindows costs not only for the os but for access to the click n' run library. However if you have the $$$ and are curious there's a review of Lindows here http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10639

pacgirl22

[dysharmonic]

Good reviews on Libranet 2.8 (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1114518,00.asp)

[hop-frog]

In your opinion which distro comes with the best documentation?

What makes it the best?
Is it the easiest to understand?
The most complete?

[mage492]

I'd have to say Red Hat. The reason is that many of the Linux books that have been written (esp. business-oriented ones) mainly cover RH. For example, the "black book" series, published by Coreolis covers RH.

It can be either easy or difficult to understand, depending on who writes it. The same holds true for completeness.

If you're referring to only the "official" documentation, though, I'd say they're mostly pretty equal.

I'm not much of a RH fan, myself, but it's a very well-documented distro.

[paj12]

I'd have to go with SuSE. I love the SuSE Help Center feature. It incorporates all the docs for the SuSE distro, all the docs on KDE, and all the package descriptions into one huge searchable database. Add to that the wealth of HOWTO's on the /docu directory that describe most of the common tasks under Linux. Most of the time, if I'm having a problem I can look in the docs on my system. I can usually find a solution without having to go to Google.

[carrja99]

UNfortunately, I cant really compare unless I was a paid reviewer of documentation. Most of the linux books on the market usually cover Red Hat, but the other day I saw a 800 page book that dealt with using Debian Woody, and quite frankly, I dont have time to read 800 pages each in several books aimed at different distros.

All good packages come with good man pages, and I consider that good enough documentation :D

[hop-frog]

I was initially refering to the documentation that comes with the distro. I suppose we could broaden the scope to third-party books. Be sure to post the name of one you liked. I just hope I could find the books in a free downloadable format. :)

[sarah31]

:rolleyes:

that really depends. many distro's documentation is just fine for that distro. many distros do not feel the need to document outside how to get certain thing done with in their environment. some go further.

[copeja]

SuSE has the most complete of all I have used they have books on the cdrom's and the printed manual is on disk also It is quite easy to set up a doc server for your network with SuSE

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

This book (http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/) is all you need to get started with FreeBSD. It takes you from install to post-setup configuration, all the way to sound, security, and advanced networking topics. Even if I don't have a problem, I like to thumb through my hard copy of the FreeBSD handbook and say, "Wow! I didn't know you could do that!!!"

You can either view the full text online, or you can buy the book through www.freebsdmall.com . Personally, I like FreeBSD so much, I sprung for the $70 US FreeBSD powerpak, which included the Handbook, and 10 CDs containing packages and source code.

[scott_R]

Okay, it's flamebait, but I'll bite. :) SuSE wins, hands down. Not because they're books are the thickest, or cover the most topics, but because I've been able to use their books to work on other distros. Non-linux-wise, I'd go with FreeBSD, too. Virtually every question I've had with that system has been in their online docs. As for third party books, there are a lot of good ones out there, but I haven't seen one that does a really good job of helping a new user out, and still being something that a more advanced user would keep around. Perhaps that's just a sign of how flexible linux can be, though.

[serz]

My vote goes for Red Hat. They have some good documentation, their guides.

But I can't choose just one...

Gentoo has a lot of documentation as well.

And FreeBSD, the handbook....

[hop-frog]

I'm running SuSE right now (download edition). The thing I like most about the documentation is that it includes their tech support problems and solutions database. I'm not sure if I like their guides in the SuSE Help-Center very well though. They only cover basic KDE and OpenOffice. Maybe SuSE's print book is something entirely different? I thought Mandrake covered the basics a lot better. (seen here (http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/fdoc.php3).)

[Zeraxz]

I gues any major distro like Mandrake , Red Hat or suse will have good documentation.

I know red hat certenly has

[chucksaysword2]

Even though I no longer use it, I'm gunna have to say SuSE. My box-set SuSE Pro 7.3 came with 4 books plus an install guide. What's really great is that in the back of the "Reference Manual" there is a copy of the GNU GPL in all of its glory. Sections 5 and 6 are interesting reads especially when you think about SCO's claims.

[CaptainPinko]

i'm looking onto moving a source based distro, which one would you recommend. I tried Gentoo, and had limited success. I'm thinking off going back to it, but then realized that there are probably better options out there. NOW PLEASE DON'T POST ENCOURAGEMENT FOR GENTOO OR RANT ABOUT HOW GOOD IT IS! if you are going to post about Gentoo then make sure you read up on other source-based distros and post only if you find an advantage of gentoo over the others. things that are of interest to me (but are not necessarily stop-stopppers if missing): a 'pretty' installer something like anaconda or installdrake (i know about glis but i haven't seen any screenshots so notgoing there unless someone can post and comment), does it an install disc for ppc, does it automatically download dependencies, can i update all the packages (eg. emerge -u world), and (the least likely but would be a HUGE plus if it existed) is it based on source rpms? ( <-- since every joe nobody provides an rpm for their app if the provide anything at all)

any one have any experience with Onebase Linux? or Evil Entity? Please share if you do.

(yes i realize i could spend a whole week looking at www.distrowatch.com but i think that forum psters opinions will be much faster and yield information of higher quality)

[Drago]

i vote redhat

[serz]

You may want to try slackware... it uses packages but I just use them when I have to upgarde my system or something. The rest, all compiling.

Slack is a good distro :)

[CaptainPinko]

does it have apt-get or a clone? how about those other things I mentioned? please comment on each of those categories if you can. (I'm not asking anyone to do my homework for me... just shareyou experiences)

[bosox79]

I was pretty impressed with sourcemage linux it has a debian type installer that is really easy to follow. check out http://www.sourcemage.org/ for more info. :cool: you may also want to keep tabs on the dux linux project. It's goal is to help make gentoo eaiser to install for newbies and people that do'nt wanna install everything from the CL myself included ;) check out http://dux.sunsite.dk/dux/index.php

hope that helps you out :cool:

[Darkbolt]

Slackware is good, because you can install binaries, but it makes compiling from source just as easy. It's like a perfect balance in a sense.

It doesnt have an apt-get clone...but it does have a useful program called swaret that makes keeping slackware up to date a peice of cake

It has a fairly easy installation, its a bit intimidating to some due to the fact that it's text based though.

Basically like I said, it has a good mix of binary, or source, and it runs quite fast out of the box.

Hell, I'm willing to place money that Slackware will perform just as well as any gentoo system with the same hardware as mine (I've done quite a few speed tweaks) :)

[CaptainPinko]

how bad is dependency hell on slackware?

[Darkbolt]

technically speaking, it doesnt exist...It doesnt check for dependencies, so you're on your own for it...generally if you compile things though, it'll tell you what you're missing

[JusKickNit]

Hey Darkbolt, I just installed Slackware 9 and swaret, it's pretty sweet. But i'm not sure how to edit my swaret config do I D/L from the current dir or 9.0 dir. I'm not sure if it's like apt-get (stable and unstable).


Thanks Wes

[JusKickNit]

I installed OneBase last night. On a second hd to give it a try. This morning when I rebooted tried to startx screen just kept flashing black. I'm sure this was due to user error. Going to try again tonight. I think they have something like emerge or apt-get, but I'm not sure if checks Deps. or not. Not as many packages either. But it boots faster than any other Linux Distro I've tried (havn't tried Gentoo).

[serz]

Swaret uses: slackware-current or slackware 9.0 instead of stabl and unstable.

Maybe you installed Midnight Commander, try editing your swaret conf with this command, as root:

mcedit /etc/swaret.conf

[JusKickNit]

Right I can edit the file fine, but what I don't understand is if I should use current or 9.0 if I use current (since 9.0 probley wouldn't have any updates) Will it make my system run unstable or missing depends or anything like that. I'm just not sure how it works.



Thanks Wes

[serz]

"slackware-current" since you just installed slack 9.

For example, I used "9.0" to update my slack 8.1.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Darkbolt
technically speaking, it doesnt exist...It doesnt check for dependencies, so you're on your own for it...generally if you compile things though, it'll tell you what you're missing

but how do you know what new packages to download to satisfy the dependencies?

[JusKickNit]

Serz, Thank You for the clerification.

[JusKickNit]

You might give Yoper a look. I didn't care for it to much. But it can install Slackware Packages,Debian,RPM's,and source. It's not source based I know that's what your after.



www.yoper.com

[sarah31]

well source based i would suggest sorcerer. i have talked to a few peopl on irc that use it and much prefer it over gentoo. it also sounds like the is a little more care and caution taken in the development (ie no masked packages, self-healing, etc)

[nextbillgates]

The only one I can recommend is Gentoo. There are other source-based distributions, such as SourceMage (http://www.sourcemage.org/) or Lunar Linux (http://www.lunar-linux.org/). However, the problem with them is that their are nowhere near as popular as Gentoo, and whatever advantage they may have in installing/configuring is offset by the fact that they don't have as many available packages, or as many developers maintaining them.

If you want a real source-based alternative to Gentoo, try the BSDs. The BSD ports system isn't as easy to use as portage, but it's mature, and has plenty of packages.

Also, there is Linux from Scratch.

If you're willing to do a little homework, most distros (notably Red Hat) come with the full source, so you can build it up straight from source if you choose. I may try this one day.

[sarah31]

Originally posted by nextbillgates
The only one I can recommend is Gentoo. There are other source-based distributions, such as SourceMage (http://www.sourcemage.org/) or Lunar Linux (http://www.lunar-linux.org/). However, the problem with them is that their are nowhere near as popular as Gentoo, and whatever advantage they may have in installing/configuring is offset by the fact that they don't have as many available packages, or as many developers maintaining them.

If you want a real source-based alternative to Gentoo, try the BSDs. The BSD ports system isn't as easy to use as portage, but it's mature, and has plenty of packages.

Also, there is Linux from Scratch.

If you're willing to do a little homework, most distros (notably Red Hat) come with the full source, so you can build it up straight from source if you choose. I may try this one day.

while true about package availablility and less developers does not discount these other source distros. sorcerer for example has regular user contributions and who knows if one is gung-ho enough and knowledgable enough they too could become a developer or package maintainer. from my understanding it is very easy to write a "spell" for sorcerer. they also have a very nice community and very knowledgable users.

i am not fond of a distro being discounted for the simple reason it has less packages. remember before gentoo became the fad it is it had virtually no users,developers, packages, etc. motivated users and generous coders have made it popular.

besides one can get more knowledge and actually give back to the distro when they take the time to contribute. i know i makes me feel alot better to be able to give back to arch linux the satisfaction i have gotten out of it.

[freakmn]

I use SourceMage (www.sourcemage.org), and it does anything I need it to. I've got it running on a server with squid (I've also installed DansGuardian, a content-filtering add on to squid). I have that server set up as a firewall, in complete stealth mode. I can use any kernel I want to (currently 2.4.21-ac4). It sets up the latest version of NVIDIA drivers on my gaming workstation. I can install WolfET and Americas Army with ease. And, on top of that, the base system is released under the GPL. I have also had limited success with gentoo, but with SourceMage, I had no trouble with standard, and even some oddball components. I am currently having trouble with SATA-Hardware RAID, but that can be expected on any system. The downside with it is that you are at a command prompt right away, and some are not comfortable with that. Good Luck!

Greg

[Gaxus]

I too have heard good things about SORCERER.... wasn't it also the FIRST source-based distro?

[freakmn]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
a 'pretty' installer something like anaconda or installdrake

I've never heard of a GUI installer for a source-based distro, so I can't help you there

an install disc for ppc


SourceMage has an installdisc for PPC (http://download.sourcemage.org/iso/older-ppc-versions/), but it is old.

automatically download dependencies,

I know SourceMage and Sorcerer both download and install dependencies for programs that they have in their Grimoire (list of Programs).

can i update all the packages (eg. emerge -u world)


You can upgrade all newer packages (and get the most recent grimoire) in SourceMage with:

sorcery system-update

You can recompile all installed programs with:

sorcery rebuild

You can fix all installed packages with:

cast -f (AKA cast --fix)

is it based on source rpms?


I've never heard of a source-based distro that does that, but I've also never heard of someone that releases a source RPM, but not a tar.gz source. But, Sourcemage does have rpmunpack, which, I believe, as I've never done it, turns a RPM into a tar.gz.

[nextbillgates]

Originally posted by sarah31
i am not fond of a distro being discounted for the simple reason it has less packages. remember before gentoo became the fad it is it had virtually no users,developers, packages, etc. motivated users and generous coders have made it popular.


I agree. However, if he's having trouble with Gentoo despite it's outstanding documentation and it's very active forum, it's a safe guess that a distro that is less mature than Gentoo is not what he's looking for ;)

[order99]

Hi,
I'm a newbie myself-got a $1 distro called Knoppix 3.2 which I can run from CD.I nstallation Wasn't hard once I researched the command line,and it auto-detected everything but my cheap Lexmark z13 printer(an easy fix from the website).Knoppix is a Debian offshoot(i'm told) and should be pretty compatible.I've also heard of several other CD-bootable Linux OS on the market,but Knoppix is my only personal experience so far.
MDWatts,would you educate me on what Caldera Linux Workstation 3.3.1 might have going for it? In case i'm out, please e-mail order99@bbnp.com. Oh, and any advice would be welcome on the various strengths and flaws of the distros out there. Thanks!

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by order99

MDWatts,would you educate me on what Caldera Linux Workstation 3.3.1 might have going for it? In case i'm out, please e-mail order99@bbnp.com.

This is the only second or third time I've ever viewed this thread and lo and behold, my name.

Workstation 3.1.1 is a GREAT release of Caldera's distros and I'm booted to it right now (last couple of weeks) since I have a problem with SCO Linux and haven't bothered to fix it since I'm reinstalling everything shortly when I replace my main HD, monitors, video card etc. hopefully sometime this week.

The only problem with 3.1.1 is it's getting a little old now since the stock kernel version is 2.4.13 and has to be nearly a year old or more by now. I still compiled and installed the 2.4.21-pre6-ac1 kernel a few days ago. Still one heck of a good, stable distro.

There is a extra cd iso image you can get that contains Gnome, Windowmaker and a few others. Let me know if you are interested and I'll post the url.

And on a sad note... I just now heard on TV that Bob Hope passed away last night. :( :( :(

[sarah31]

Originally posted by nextbillgates
I agree. However, if he's having trouble with Gentoo despite it's outstanding documentation and it's very active forum, it's a safe guess that a distro that is less mature than Gentoo is not what he's looking for ;)

bah sorcerer is mature it is as old or older than gentoo :p

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by sarah31
bah sorcerer is mature it is as old or older than gentoo :p

I liked Sorcerer as it was the only distro that I knew that included FlightGear.

I still plan to install Sorcerer whenever I reinstall everything on my main home pc.

[The Whizzard]

I used Sorcerer up untill it was no longer GPL'ed(when it forked to Lunar Linux and SorceMage, which are GPL). I haven't used any of the forks, but if they're anything like Sorcerer was, all three should be a decent sorce-based distro.
I loved Sorcerer but with all that went on a few years ago, I lost interest and moved on to other things.

[freakmn]

Originally posted by mdwatts
I liked Sorcerer as it was the only distro that I knew that included FlightGear.

I still plan to install Sorcerer whenever I reinstall everything on my main home pc.

SourceMage has it included also, but it's kind of a fork of Sorcerer, so I guess maybe you meant that. In case anyone's interested, here is a brief history of Sorcerer, SourceMage, and Lunar Linux. (http://sourcemage.org/info/about/history.html)

[elyserva]

I'm a newbie to linux myself being a Windows user, so here's my HO:

If you want to try linux without installing I recomend Knoppix or Vector Linux Live. Both will boot and run right off the cd. Vector Live is the smaller download and is somewhat faster since it uses IceWM & Xfce for its GUIs. Knoppix is bigger but includes lots of SW and uses KDE3.1

For installed distros, I like Mandrake. Its easy to install (easiest IMHO). I've tried Redhat but kept coming back to Mandrake.

I like Vector SOHO edition too. I'm using this to post this message. Vector SOHO uses KDE3.1. Vector is a single CD ISO download but will decompress to nearly 2GB because it includes hundreds of SW for office use.

I have both Mandrake 9.0 & Vector 3.2 SOHO in my HDD, and Windows 98se, of course. I'm a Window user, you know!:D

[louis_b]

I certainly agree with elyserva's opinion of Mandrake. I've tried RedHat 7.2, 7.3 and 8.0 and am still using RH 7.3 on a desktop. Happy enough with it but setting up Samba was a chore. I'm running Mandrake 9.0 on my notebook. The installation was flawless and extremely easy. Much to my surprise, samba was set up automatically and I could browse a windows network with ease. I also installed win4lin and windows98 (groan) as I had to be able to access Lotus Notes (no success with wine). I run windows in a window and it runs faster than I ever remember a native windows isntallation running. I highly recommend win4lin for those who can't entirely get away from windows for whatever reason.

[order99]

Hi again,
Sorry for the lag between posts-day job and all :) Thanks for the heads up MD Watts. And Elyserva, thanks for the info on Vector-I only knew about Knoppix,Lindows and Damn Small Linux having bootable OS. Having only Knoppix on drive so far,it's the only one I can vouch for,and I LIKE it! If I get my feet thoroughly wet on Knoppix i'll probably give Debian a try.
Speaking as a slow- typing primitive with no command-line knowledge yet,I think I qualify as Joe User. As such,here is what I looked for in a non-Window$ OS:
Bootable from CD(try before you install-a must have!)
Easy Installer for noobs like me
GUI Install/uninstaller for add-ons(with warnings when i'm about to do something stupid)
In short,a Linux distro that holds my hand the whole way,at least until Joe User decides he wants the power of command code himself(or at least has the time to learn).I think Joe user would even forgo some of the many extras out there(games,multiple desktops,server abilities) if the OS is easy enough-and once his feet are wet,he'll add whatever he damn well pleases and maybe get command-line experience from troubleshooting his add-ons(that's how I accquired my VERY LIMITED dos command knowledge.
Well,to bed.And Thanks for litening.

[Loki3]

Well my father is finally fed up windows and luckly I was right there saying, well you know linux could probably do this and do it better than windows. So the question is what's a good distro to start him with. He seems to really like Lindows but it needs more processing power than his old dell (500mhz, 128mb, 60GB). I've used Red Hat and it's pretty friendly for newbies but I know Mandrake is another good one too. However I dislike both of those because of the RPMs and the dependcies. I was thinking Libernet might be a good one. Has anyone used Libernet before and can tell me if it will be fast/stable/GUI-newbie friendly. I was thinking doing a Libernet install with KDE to provide a GUI that seems familar. The review of it on distrowatch said it was basicly a friendlier debian.

The two applications that really keep him tied to windows are the Micro$oft Suite and Micr$oft Money. I have never used Open Office before but it should do nicely as a a Micro$oft Suite replacement but I could only find a Lotus Notes replacement on sourceforge.net. Anyway any thoughts on these ideas would be welcome. As we all know 1st impressions of linux often determine how people view it for quite a while. Thanks.

[superted]

What about SuSE? I'm not really sure if they use rpm's or how much processing power it needs, but it's said to be quite userfriendly.

Surfed a little after i posted and it looks like they use rpm's. But it also came to mind that if you have good experience with linux, you could just install debian, gentoo or something like that on his computer. And get KDE up and running with some nice fonts etc etc. Then it would be just as userfriendly as RedHat, dont you think? The hard bit is to get everything working, once that is accomplished, there's not that much to it.

[DerekKraan]

I've heard good things about Lycoris(www.lycoris.com), and Xandros(www.xandros.com). Both I believe you have to pay for. However, they should be well worth your money. For what you get with the Xandros deluxe edition, $99 is not bad at all. Here are some review links:

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=2228

http://www.distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=review-xandros

[Loki3]

Originally posted by superted
. Then it would be just as userfriendly as RedHat, dont you think? The hard bit is to get everything working, once that is accomplished, there's not that much to it.

I agree. The last thing he wants to do is have to download a bunch of libraries and fight through the RPM system just to install a simple application. I'm leaning towards debian or libernet (based upon debian).

Does anyone know if OpenOffice or someone has a replacement for micro$oft money?

[hyp_spec]

o.O set him up w/ slackware and dropline gnome O.o fun stuff!

[Lemming]

Straight off the bottom of the suse 8.2 box (yes box, I bought it)

Processor: Pentium 1-4; AMD; "Duron", "Athlon", "Athlon XP", "Athlon MP"; but not 286, 386 and 486.

Main memory: A minimum of 64MB is required for the installation with YaST2, 128MB recommended.

[CaptainPinko]

Lindows is just like Windows but Linux. it costs a little bul you can get the rest for free. thats just from peviews.... lycoris i can vouch for.

there is also this really slick super usable distro called MacOsX. its actually all *nix and you can use all your soon to be favourite gnu tools. you could use linux but really unless you will have to learn ALOT. if you are just fed up with windows and want stuff that just works you are really barking up the wrong tree. you will have to learn about internals and what-not. linux is not a windows replacement its an alternative. keep that in mind.

[ZAmodeo]

Knoppix has a very easy install program and apt-get since it's debian based. If you know what you're doing I'd say go for straight debian (although darkbolt will tell you differently :p.) I love apt-get for installing programs, and it shouldn't be too hard for your dad to learn to use it. As for the replacement for ms money, gnucash might be alright.

[superted]

If Loki3's father is kinda like my mom, i don't really think there will be any need for him to get all that farmiliar with the system. (Allthough it is of course an advantage.) My mother is satisfied as long as her e-mail client and browser works. And it sounds like Loki3's father will be with his OpenSource GnuCash (if it's any good) and a descent browser (like opera :p). Office people don't really care if they don't have the newest kernel, that's my view anyway :)

[Loki3]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko

there is also this really slick super usable distro called MacOsX. its actually all *nix and you can use all your soon to be favourite gnu tools.

I assuming Mac OsX needs a mac to run not a Dell. A new computer currently isn't in the budget. I've looked into gnucash and I think it'll be a good replacement for M$'s money. Thanks for everyone's ideas.

[stumbles]

Why don't you just burn some ISOs of Redhat, Mandrake, Gentoo, Lunar Linux, JAMD, Vector, Knoppix and Yopher and let him choose :)

Better yet. Ignore any suggestion in this thread except for this; since you will most likely maintain his box, use the distro YOU are familar with.

[DSwain]

Well, i tried Debian, and it was not fun installing it. I must have spent 4 hours on the install, and then XFree didn't work. I'll take dependancys over 4 hours of installing and no X anyday. But yeah, Debian interested me for the package managers, they can convert rpms into debs which is awsome i find. Now that would be something to have, executables converted into debian files, or rpm, or anything. But that's off topic... heh, this is what happens when you are bored while downloading mandrake disks. In conclusion- for a new person, i'm so-so on the idea of Debian, but hey, you may end up with better luck than i had.

[superted]

DSwain, you have just had really bad luck. My debian install went pretty smooth. XFree86 to, but that's because i have fiddled QUITE ALOT with X before :)

[DSwain]

Yeah i guess so. Thats me though. I probably just set the color depth too high, or resolution too high or something simple like that. *sigh* oh well, i'm good with mandrake 9.1

[glussier]

Originally posted by Loki3
I agree. The last thing he wants to do is have to download a bunch of libraries and fight through the RPM system just to install a simple application. I'm leaning towards debian or libernet (based upon debian).

Does anyone know if OpenOffice or someone has a replacement for micro$oft money?

Why would he have to fight with rpms? Urpmi is pretty good with dependencies, and it's not like your father will spend all his time installing software packages. You just said that the only thing he does is internet, Office work and his Microsoft money software. I think, Mandrake is a good starting point and do not forget that kde, under Debian, Mandrake or any other distros will still be kde on a 500mhz pc, still slow. Probably a window shell like xfce would be a better choice for that type of computer.

[tanna]

Originally posted by ZAmodeo
Knoppix has a very easy install program and apt-get since it's debian based. If you know what you're doing I'd say go for straight debian (although darkbolt will tell you differently :p.) I love apt-get for installing programs, and it shouldn't be too hard for your dad to learn to use it. As for the replacement for ms money, gnucash might be alright.

I agree w/ what he said. Knoppix is the easy way to get debian. :)

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Loki3
I assuming Mac OsX needs a mac to run not a Dell. A new computer currently isn't in the budget. I've looked into gnucash and I think it'll be a good replacement for M$'s money. Thanks for everyone's ideas.

lycoris or lindows unless you want to play baby admin then

[geekyboi]

lycoris...if you do happen to get that up, please tell me how it is cause Im too lazy to install it right now. Also, how is slackware?

[Loki3]

Well I think I'm going to go with Mandrake and XFCE probably. Like Glussier said he's probably not going to have to download much software and install it so it won't make too much of a difference. I'll set him up with Mozilla, OpenOffice and gnucash and things should work nicely.

[hyp_spec]

o.o bummer o.o was hopin ya'd chose slackware! :cool: lol

[mdwatts]

Any distro with KDE as most users feel KDE is closer to the look, feel and usage of the Windows desktop than Gnome and the others.

[serz]

Originally posted by mdwatts
Any distro with KDE as most users feel KDE is closer to the look, feel and usage of the Windows desktop than Gnome and the others.

[tanna]

...............want to post?

[glussier]

Originally posted by mdwatts
Any distro with KDE as most users feel KDE is closer to the look, feel and usage of the Windows desktop than Gnome and the others.

True kde looks a lot like the window desktop, but so does xfce and it will run much better on a 500mhz pc.

[serz]

Originally posted by tanna
...............want to post?
No, you seem you want to post :D

I just quoted it instead of "I'm agree with you".

[ehawk]

Winlinux2003 requires no partitioning...it's mounted on a loopback partition through windows...installs just like a windows application (wizard and all)....all hardware is already recognized by Windows...supposedly 100% compatible with Red Hat.

Mandrake also used to have (and maybe still does) loopback mounting (no partitioning necessary). Mandrake is nice.

Knoppix is really cool....you can test it out without installing to your hard drive...there are other demo CDs...think from Vector Linux, SuSe.

[Loki3]

hmm, loopback mounting sounds pretty tight. I think it's going to mandrake / Xfce.

[CaptainPinko]

mandrake has the nicest hardware recognition out of the box


you should also SRONGLY look into http://www.xpde.com/ it was designed exactly for this kind of situation

[Kaligraphic]

I'm a little wary of loopback mounting over windows, because it seems like you'd need to run it in windows. If that's correct, then you'd have the overhead of also running windows, and the potential instability of a windows base. Of course, if it doesn't run inside of windows, then I'm just spouting hot air about that, so just ignore that part. :)

Anyway, while I use and love debian, if your father is coming from a windows frame of reference, start him on something else. I took to debian (I did start with debian) because my heart was still with the CLI. I had never turned my preferences from DOS to windows. That set me to finding config files and playing with the CLI from the start. (X didn't work at first.) If your father both used and liked the windows interface, I'd suggest starting him on something like redhat or mandrake. I've used redhat 8, and I think that my parents could handle it (within certain limits). Mandrake is also reputed to be easy to learn and use.

Also, I believe that there's an rpm version of apt called apt-rpm, so you might want to try that.

And yes, I do love apt-get. but only when I can get a bloody net connection. (note: problem is not os-related)

[idle_daemon]

I suppose i should start off my 1st post by way of introductions, but there really isn't that much to say. Grey Hat hacker, Linux user for approx. 6 mos. (Slackware and SuSE). 16 yrs. old, live @ home w/ parents (sad isn't it?), attending Palomar College & Coleman College in San Marcos, CA.

Down to the question : Does anyone have any suggestions as to the most compact version of Linux/BSD etc. that is also useful for portability and business? I would like one for my laptop, however, shopping around has gotten wearisome and I'd like an outside opinion. Here's my sys specs.

Intel Pentium III-650
256 MB Ram
12 GB Hard Drive
14.1" Active Matrix (XGA) Screen
DVD/CDRW Combo drive
3.5 inch floppy drive 56K Modem
10/100 Ethernet Card
Internal Sound Card and Speakers

So....any thoughts? any comment would be most helpful. Thank you for your time.

[mdwatts]

Believe it or not... your question is very popular here.

Search the JL forums for i.e. 'small distro' and have a look through the /dev/random forum for the last week or two for similar related threads.

http://old.lwn.net/Distributions/

www.distrowatch.com

[Read Icculus]

Slackware or Debian should run like a charm on a laptop with those specs. I know that Debian has plenty of whatever type of "business" packages you might need. Or if you're looking for something different that's also a bit more "lightweight", Vector Linux and Peanut are both nice and smooth on older machines. If you want to experiment with using a *BSD, I'd recommend Free BSD simply because I think it makes the best desktop. The Open, and Net are more server oriented. Just MO.

[mdwatts]

Any current distro version should run on those system specs.

[psi42]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
you should also SRONGLY look into http://www.xpde.com/ it was designed exactly for this kind of situation
I looked at the screenshots for that...looks so much like xp that it's SCARY. Even has the registry editor (http://www.xpde.com/shots/regedit.png) :(:).




Remember that YOU are going to be doing all the system adminstration anyway, even if you use something like lycoris...so you could just go with something like slack. :D

And if you do pick lycoris, please tell us what it's like! (I would test it myself, but at the moment I don't want to repartition my new system due to previous problems, and my other systems aren't powerful enough to run KDE :))


~psi42

[Kaligraphic]

Originally posted by psi42
I looked at the screenshots for that...looks so much like xp that it's SCARY. Even has the registry editor (http://www.xpde.com/shots/regedit.png) :(:).

Okay, now that's just plain wrong...
Not your facts, I mean that emulating windows to that degree is morally wrong.

[DSwain]

Very true, that's closer to windows on linux than you probably want to be. But if you liked the interface of XP THAT MUCH i guess it works...

[plattypus1]

What do you use? Your dad, if he's anything like mine, isn't going to fix his computer. His idea of getting it working is "[insert name]!!! The **** thing isn't working again!" :-)

So if you have enough experience with the distro he's got to get the "**** thing" working that much faster, he'll be that much happier with it.

[arioch]

First, I don't mean to start a flamewar. Anybody who responds, Please take that into consideration.

This test is REALLY surprising:

http://articles.linmagau.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=227

Even though the gentoo setup wasn't completely 101% optimal, it shouldn't have had It's butt kicked this much. Especially by Mandrake which is considered bloated by many. I'm really wondering if all the manual labor of running gentoo is really worth it...:confused:

How did Mandrake find all that speed? It runs just about equal to debian:confused: :confused:

[dlausevic]

If you go to www.distrowatch.com (http://www.distrowatch.com), it lists many many distributions. Just the other night I downloaded a 45 meg dist. It's designed to fit on a business card cd so you can keep it in your wallet. It's meant to be used as a live cd and rescue dist. Uses ramdisk or pen drive to store settings. I'm sure you can find something of your desire there. It includes reviews and links to download mirrors. Hope this helps.

[serz]

Impressive...

[x_Ray]

Interesting...good thing 'speed increase' has always been on the bottom of my list of reasons for using gentoo.:)

[carrja99]

I, for one, am glad, because it puts to rest those unproven claims by the Gentoo zealots that Gentoo rocks because it's faster. Don't get me wrong, Gentoo has alot of good features, but speed isn't/shouldn't be the reason you flock to it like it's the greatest thing that ever came out.

I tried it out for awhile, but I found Debian is still my favorite, and that's what I'm sticking with.

[Hayl]

interesting but this test was more or less a test of disk speed and less than scientific.

also, they don't provide what hdparm settings they used for each distro.

if you look at their results, they aren't consistent over multiple tests.

Results:
Debian Mandrake Gentoo
Round 1 3.8s 3.8s 4.1s
Round 2 1m 15s 1m 14s 1m 37s
Round 3 1m 05s 52s 54s

they also used the -O3 CFLAG which is known to create bloated code that takes longer to load and can be slower when running.

what "stock" kernel did they use for the gentoo box? vanilla-sources, gentoo-sources? they don't say.

i know that my response is probably what you would expect from someone who runs Gentoo but i would say the exact same thing if i was still running Red Hat or Debian.

that being said, i'll restate what i have always said about Gentoo. the only apps that you will notice a difference in speed-wise are large apps that reuse a lot of code such as XFree, Mozilla, Galeon, etc.

[Syntaxis]

the only apps that you will notice a difference in speed-wise are large apps that reuse a lot of code such as XFree, Mozilla, Galeon, etc.Very true. And, of course, the point is that you don't need to be using a source-based distro to be able to conveniently perform targetted recompilation/optimization of specific apps. *cough* apt-build *cough* ;)

[glussier]

I don't agree that the app needs to be huge to benefit from a recompile, the only rule to benefit from compiler optimization is that lot's of code is reused often.

Also, gcc++, it doesn't matter the version, is not a great P4 optimizing compiler. It would make a lot more sense recompiling P4 code with the Intel c++ optimizing compiler, then you wouldn't be spending hours for close to zero benefit.

[nextbillgates]

They're test involved:

a) How fast a big file loaded
b) How fast the GIMP performed a filter
c) Kernel compile speeds

Test A and C were basically a disc speed test, and this quote from the article makes me question these tests:

Upon testing with hdparm, it was apparent that this machine was having troubles setting above udma2. Eventually this problem was traced to the HD cable, a salutary lesson in the variability of identical hardware setups.

Gentoo lost test B because GIMP was compiled with -O3 (which kills Celeron performance) and without -fomit-frame-pointer. Had Gentoo been compiled -Os -fomit-frame-pointer, it would've won all three tests by a wide margin, and those are still conservative optimizations. Prelinking (which Mandrake doesn't support) would've widened Gentoo's lead.

So move along, nothing to see here ;)

[Loki3]

Well, I download gnucash on my machine so he could try and if I can sucessfully sway him, I'll post it in How I Did It. Thanks for all the good options guys.

[sharth]

like to throw in a few ideas here.

the kernel compile == pointless, since gcc takes out any optimizations anywho.

also, if you read the slashdot comments, you would notice that these people did not know what they were doing when setting up gentoo. However, that also means that the majority of people who do use gentoo, probably don't either.

[sarah31]

they also used the -O3 CFLAG which is known to create bloated code that takes longer to load and can be slower when running.

sure but these are flags that almost all fools use. i would almost bet you 99% of the crowd out their would use -O3 flags.

scientific? hell no. would i believe a "scientific" one? no. all that matters to me is the i use what i like and be able to choose what i like. i settled on arch linux some settle on gentoo, others RH or MDK. who really cares? just like stats are for losers in sport they are the same when it come to computers, sound systems, vcrs, cars, etc. all i care about in reviews are things that might annoy me such as autoconfigure tools, large package sets during install with no finer selections, etc. actually who cares at all about reviews?

[gfunkmonk]

I use Gentoo primarily and I am pretty happy with it. I installed SourceMage, but its was kinda screwy and I have problems with it. I recently install Lunar Linux, Its basically just like gentoo, except its has dialogs to configure stuff and some stuff it does automatically. I'd say if I were going to recomend a source-distro it would be Lunar Linux.

[Darkbolt]

Originally posted by sarah31
sure but these are flags that almost all fools use. i would almost bet you 99% of the crowd out their would use -O3 flags.

scientific? hell no. would i believe a "scientific" one? no. all that matters to me is the i use what i like and be able to choose what i like. i settled on arch linux some settle on gentoo, others RH or MDK. who really cares? just like stats are for losers in sport they are the same when it come to computers, sound systems, vcrs, cars, etc. all i care about in reviews are things that might annoy me such as autoconfigure tools, large package sets during install with no finer selections, etc. actually who cares at all about reviews?

Its like what I said in irc last night...Theres only one distro out there for YOU, and once you find it, you'll know it. And you wont be able to use any other distro, or atleast enjoy using any other distro.

So really, stats like these have no impact, because some other distro might be faster yeah...but its not your distro, it doesnt have what you need

[Hayl]

Originally posted by sarah31
sure but these are flags that almost all fools use. i would almost bet you 99% of the crowd out their would use -O3 flags.

actually, most people don't use -O3 anymore.

[CaptainPinko]

you could probably still use your M$ apps if you got wine or codeweavers

[glussier]

Originally posted by CaptainPinko
you could probably still use your M$ apps if you got wine or codeweavers

Why switch to Linux, if the applications he is going to use, are still window's apps?

[Darkbolt]

Originally posted by glussier
Why switch to Linux, if the applications he is going to use, are still window's apps?
because in some cases there isnt a native equivilant

[Icarus]

Originally posted by Hayl
actually, most people don't use -O3 anymore. I didn't...:p

I've tried a few distros but alway go back to Red Hat for some reason...I'll bet it's brainwashing :)

Gentoo is very nice, but nothing you can't do with anything else and most of the speed advange I got from it was from using a lightweight WM (Fluxbox). I still use it, but have been using Red Hat more now that I have a good video card (Enemy Territory works much smoother now, I can finally play Radar! :))

I would like to see someone run a more intensive test like this, purely on Gentoo using different compiler options (From a stage 1 install BTW ;))
That would be more interesting then this "review"

[glussier]

Originally posted by Darkbolt
because in some cases there isnt a native equivilant

His dad is only using 2 or 3 apps, so there's absolutly no benefit, for him, to switch to a linux o/s. He already has windows, so cost is a mute point, even stability, if his windows has no stability issue(s).

[janet loves bill]

Originally posted by arioch
really wondering if all the manual labor of running gentoo is really worth it...:

Not really No!!

[bosox79]

Originally posted by mahdi
I didn't...:p

I've tried a few distros but alway go back to Red Hat for some reason...I'll bet it's brainwashing :)

Gentoo is very nice, but nothing you can't do with anything else and most of the speed advange I got from it was from using a lightweight WM (Fluxbox). I still use it, but have been using Red Hat more now that I have a good video card (Enemy Territory works much smoother now, I can finally play Radar! :))

I would like to see someone run a more intensive test like this, purely on Gentoo using different compiler options (From a stage 1 install BTW ;))
That would be more interesting then this "review"

mahdi, I agree I love JAMD linux it work great for me & it is alredy compiled for i686's. like others have said I think I have found my distro of choice RH/JAMD & I will be sticking with them for now:cool:

just my .02

[CaptainPinko]

glussier:
Originally posted by Loki3
Well my father is finally fed up windows

and he can then run run additional apps that are non-windows. codeweavers exists or the same purpose that cygwin does

[ikellen]

Redhat would be my first suggestion, but set it up for him so you dont get dependency problems (i.e install stuff like GTK, glib, development tools, before he uses the machine). Lindows is good, his machine could probably run it. Only bummer is that it costs $$$, plus to install anything you HAVE to use their Click-n-Run system. I could not compile anything from source on Lindows. However it's not that bad, as most anything you want is in their Click-n-Run wherehouse.

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by ikellen
to install anything you HAVE to use their Click-n-Run system.

i'm pretty sure thats not quite right as they would not disable gcc on their distro plus i belive i read it has apt-get built into it

---

they mention apt here (http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3998,a=34396,00.asp) ... tho i have a feeling the point is moot since the original poster is done with this thread tho here is a Lindows 4.0 review (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1134574,00.asp) with the focus on ease of use that i think is really pertanent

[db369]

hi,

i have an old laptop (p2 166MHz, 1.6GB hdd). i was wondering if it'll run any recent version/distro of linux. i was hoping to set up snort and smoothwall (or something similar) on it... and just play around with a linux a little more (i was using rh8 for a little while on another system).

any thoughts?

thx!

OH! one other thing: my cd-rom for this pc broke so i would need to install over a network. is this possible? i've never tried it before...

thx again!

[itzme]

Hopefully I wont do somthing stupid like start a new thread again, look at
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/4795/1/

[Hayl]

use the search. there are already lots of posts about older hardware.

JL forum search resultes for : distro recommendation (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=702786&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

[db369]

thanks for your replies! and sorry for not searching first! i guess i didn't think it was that popular of a topic...

[Lucasd85]

I was just wonderding what people thought was the best minimalist Linux distro to use on a system with/or without any hard drives that runs in the RAM?

And what are some of the best single floppy distro's??

[dlausevic]

In my opinion, damnsmalllinux is my favorite. If you want to play with it, go to distrowatch.com.

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by Lucasd85
And what are some of the best single floppy distro's??

I tried muLinux, and thought it was pretty nice. But, it's actually a 2-floppy distro, with a kernel disk and a root disk. After it loads, it runs from the memory.

Last check, it used some really old kernel, but it looks like a recent version was released:

http://mulinux.sunsite.dk/

[Lucasd85]

Is morphix any good?

[o0zi]

In my opinion, Morphix is great. You can customize the bootable CD to have whatever applications you want on it very easily, and the LightGUI version (the most popular one) is much faster on older computers than Knoppix.

And, of course, there's the Matrix-style bootup screen :D

[je_fro]

tomsrtbt and LRP. (Linux router)

[Stween]

Mininux: http://mininux.free.fr/uk/

[mage492]

I've heard Floppix is pretty good (can't remember the link at the moment, though...)

Otherwise, go to http://www.linux.org/dist/index.html and search for minimalist distros. You'll find several 1-floppy ones, as well as several cd-based ones.

[alan79]

Is there anything wrong with using an old distro?

I am using RH 7.3 and I like it. RH 8 + 9 didnt like them. Mandrake 9.1 nice eye candy stopped using box after about 2 days too slow. I dont run servers I do some java programming, shell scripting and essay stuff for uni and I surf the web and I dont have a reason to change.

Like my subjects says am I missing something by not upgrading?

[scinerd]

The only thing would be updates since RH will drop support for 7.3 if it hasn't all ready. If you are not running any servers then security should be fine. If you are something like ssh then I would just update it. After a while you might find it hard to find rpms but then you would just need to build from souce. In short if your happy stay with it.

[alan79]

ta

[Syngin]

I doubt it'll drop support for 7.3 anytime soon as, from what I've seen, a very large number of server companies still make use of that version.

[shakin]

7.3 is still the most stable version other than Advanced Server. I use it on two servers and with proper updates and a seperate hardware firewall it's not a security risk at all.

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by shakin
7.3 is still the most stable version other than Advanced Server. I use it on two servers and with proper updates and a seperate hardware firewall it's not a security risk at all.

I thought Advanced Server was based off of 7.3? They put out a slower release schedule, based off of 7.3, so they could be sure things were stable.

At least, that's what I remember... But in the end, keep in mind, it's all about choice. Even though it would be a security nightmare, there's nothing stopping you from running Red Hat 5.2 if that's what you want to run. Well, assuming your hardware supported it, but I think you get my drift. In fact, if you wanted to run Gnome on a 233mhz K6-2, you'd probably want an older distro.

[RWiggum]

I'm posting from my old laptop running RH7.3. If you're happy with it, by all means stay with it. The security patches could be important depending on what you're doing with your machine. I've never gotten the automated patches from RHN to work. I started with RH7.3 shortly before 8.0 came out, so when I needed to update 7.3, I needed 8-9 hours worth of downloads (110+MB) to catch up. I tried to start it and let it go overnight, but it crashed halfway through and updated nothing. I said to hell with it after that. I just shut down all of the servers and don't accept any ssh connections except from the ethernet card - which will only be me connecting from one of my other boxes. I may be leaving myself vulnerable - one of you network security gurus will certainly comment - but I figure it shouldn't matter if I need to patch NFS if it's not running anyway.

One problem I ran into the other day was trying to update an individual package from redhat.com. I wanted the new version of gphoto2 and gtkam because I finally bought a digital camera. The version I have didn't support my camera, so I thought I'd try a newer version. The latest RPMs require glibc 2.3, but I've only got 2.2.5. It seems like I heard that RH9 is binary-incompatible with previous versions. In effect, that means that the typical RPM found on redhat.com won't work with anything less than 9. I haven't looked harder; I may be able to find older RPMs usable with glibc 2.2.5, but then that would defeat the purpose of getting the latest camera software. My next step is to track down the source for gphoto2.

So, other than a few hassles, I don't see any reason not to stick with what you like. I looked around too, and ended up leaving my well-tweaked copy of RH7.3 on my laptop. I got it to the point that it "just works." Why screw it up just to have the latest and greatest? And keep in mind that 7.3 is only about a year old. Linux distros have a very fast release schedule, so even though RH is hurrying everyone along with their version number inflation schemes, don't feel pressured to upgrade just to suit them.

[JCScoobyRS]

I have a Pocket PC Powered handheld and I'd like to get rid of the MS portion of the handheld. I want to install Linux on it but I don't know if there is an available Linux Distro that is supported for the Pocket PC? Anyone got any information for me? Thanks, Jeremy

[kshim5]

try familiar

http://familiar.suselinuxsupport.de/#whatis

[JCScoobyRS]

WOW!!! That disto looks nice. It's only designed for the iPAQ though and I have an older HP Jornada 548. It's running Pocket PC. I'll keep looking around I guess but if you see something, let me know. Thanks, Jeremy

[RickP in AZ]

Being quite skilled in Pocket PC I can tell you that because your Jornada 548 does *not* have a Flash ROM you will most likely not find a distro which you could run. The only one which could even possibly work would be "Intimate": http://intimate.handhelds.org/ which is a full Debian distro which will actually run from a large CF card.

Unfortunatedly it seems to still rely upon having a Flash ROM inorder to load the bootloader.

My best rcommendation would be to scour the Net for a used iPAQ. The 3630 will be among the cheapest but its *short* battery life will make it unbearable. I would look into getting a used 39xx: the transflective screen coupled with the incredible frugality of its battery usage will make for a much more enjoyable experience.

BTW I am currently fiddling around with Familiar/OPIE installed on my iPAQ 3630. It is decent but with what little Linux skills I have it is a bit dry. PIM functions are covered by the initial installation but be ready to install several packages to gain the functionality you have with the Pocket PC. The OPIE environment is built off of QTK or whatever is the underpinings of KDE and the GPE environment is based on GTK or what runs beneath GNOME.

All the info on "Pocket Linux" you could ever need can be found at: http://www.handhelds.org/geeklog/index.php

I hope this helps... and is clear enough.

[JCScoobyRS]

That's what I'm doing is upgrading and once I do that, I'm good as familiar and others run on iPAQ. Thanks for your help, Jeremy

[Bejestro]

Hi all,
Im new to linux and i wanted to know what distribuations of linux are your favorite and which ones you would say would be best for an absolute newbie. i have a sattilite connection with a 200mb for every 2 hours limit and a disconect time penalty of 6 hours so i cant download them all to try them and end up finding the distro bad and don't want to shell out cash for a possible bad distro. i want to play around with linux and start to learn and havn't been able to yet. i also would like to know where i can find some help with learning linux and what it can do

[stumbles]

Originally posted by Bejestro
Hi all,
Im new to linux and i wanted to know what distribuations of linux are your favorite and which ones you would say would be best for an absolute newbie. i also would like to know where i can find some help with learning linux and what it can do

Just pick one, run it, if you don't like it, then try another. What I like is not nessecarily what you like.

[clw54]

Mandrake is very good for newbies. After trying Linux a couple of times with older versions of Redhat and Suse and giving up, I tried Mandrake 9.0 and stuck with it. This forum has also helped a lot.

[kshim5]

RedHat why you ask ? This what i have always used since version 5...

[o0zi]

Let's see...

Mandrake, Redhat or SuSe for beginners to Linux.

Slackware/Debian/Gentoo for those who want more power over their system and who know Linux quite well.

Knoppix/Morphix/Damn Small for people that don't want to install Linux but would like to try it off a CD.

Lindows for those that want a system that is basically Debian but wish to pay for it.

And last but not least, SCO Linux for mdwatts:p

[ven0m]

DEBIAN DEBIAN DEBIAN DEBIAN :D

[Dracnor]

I went RedHat, Mandrake, then Gentoo, Slackware, then Linux from Scratch. (Gentoo is by far my favorite)

[JamminJoeyB]

I see a moderator merge comming on this thread. (don't we have a bunch of these threads already)

Running Evil Entity Linux and Arch Linux.

Pick your poison. I like to live on the edge.

[deanrantala]

Slackware for work and SuSE for play:)

[Hayl]

do we really need another one of these?

we already have enough "what distro?" threads.

:)

(just so we don't disappoint: JamminJoeyB)

[o0zi]

We already have enough threads, yes, so lock this one:)

[roadorange]

what's your favorite linux and what linux are you using?

[Hayl]

why not just do a search for the 500 billion other threads like this?

[stumbles]

Originally posted by roadorange
what's your favorite linux and what linux are you using?

Let's not and close this thread........ this horse is dead.

[do_guh_new]

I remember one time a guy asked this, only he used 3 distros and laid it out like this:

"if you like redhat select one"
"if you like mandrake select two"
"if you like suse select three"

therefore his selections were "one two three" I thought that was classic

[JamminJoeyB]

Ok here is my $.02 (yes I am just trying to get my post count up, mdwatts is my hero.)

Linux is the kernel so this really needs to read what distro are you using. Or you could change the selections to 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6 to represent the kernel you are using.

Ok flame me now for being trivial. Me and my flame resistant suit are ready.

[DerekKraan]

I voted - although I don't know why. I'm sure that this thread has been done a thousand times. So maybe a kind mod could lock it?

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by DerekKraan
So maybe a kind mod could lock it?

Then another thread will be posted on why are the moderators locking threads of which we already have a few.

Still setting up my new HD on my main home pc.

SCO (Rescue)
WinXP (only for Flight Simulator) - not installed yet
SCO (Dev)
SuSE 8.2 Professional
Gentoo - not installed yet
Debian - not installed yet
Spare1 - for testing distros
Spare2 - for testing distros
VMware - for storing VMware images
SCO (Prod) - installed on ATA Raid Controller
Shared apps partition on Raid Controller for documents, setiathome, mozilla etc.


# fdisk -l /dev/hda

Disk /dev/hda: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 9729 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/hda1 * 1 4 32098+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda2 5 642 5124735 17 Hidden HPFS/NTFS
/dev/hda3 643 1152 4096575 83 Linux
/dev/hda4 1153 9729 68894752+ f Win95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/hda5 * 1153 1790 5124703+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda6 1791 2428 5124703+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda7 2429 3066 5124703+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda8 3067 4341 10241406 83 Linux
/dev/hda9 4342 4979 5124703+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda10 4980 5617 5124703+ 83 Linux
/dev/hda11 5618 6892 10241406 83 Linux
/dev/hda12 6893 9598 21735913+ b Win95 FAT32
/dev/hda13 9599 9729 1052226 82 Linux swap

# fdisk -l /dev/ataraid/d0

Disk /dev/ataraid/d0: 255 heads, 63 sectors, 4863 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 bytes

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/ataraid/d0p1 1 4863 39062016 f Win95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/ataraid/d0p5 1 523 4200934+ 83 Linux
/dev/ataraid/d0p6 524 1307 6297448+ 83 Linux
/dev/ataraid/d0p7 1308 2352 8393931 83 Linux
/dev/ataraid/d0p8 2353 2614 2104483+ 83 Linux
/dev/ataraid/d0p9 2615 4863 18065061 83 Linux

[JamminJoeyB]

All I can say to mdwatts post is "holy cow!"

I think the next question is going to be. When are you going to post a picture of your rig in the desktop shot thread.

I'm pretty sure we would all like to see this.

*puts tail between legs, packs up his puny 2.0 ghz dual boot and beats feet for the door.

[superted]

And I think my five partitions are hard to keep track of :p

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by JamminJoeyB
When are you going to post a picture of your rig in the desktop shot thread.


Whenever everyone get's together and sends me a nice new digital camera (as was offerend and forgotten in a recent thread :( ). :)

Actually on the main HD I only created root partitions for all the distros (besides the one /boot and swap) as I didn't want to track and control separate /opt, /var etc. partitions for each. SCO Prod has separate /opt, /var & /usr partitions.

Yesterday I replaced my regular dvd, cdrw and floppy with black models to better match the Enermax case. The ones I removed are moving to my other home pc and the cdrw into a external ide case for my laptop.

Now I'm only running dual AMD 1800 MP's with 1gb ECC/Registered, Nvidia FX 5600 with twin ViewSonic P95f+'s (19" black model), LG 52x24x52, Sony 16x DVD, Promise Fasttrack TX2 with two 40gb Maxtors (80gb - 8mb cache main HD), 13 case fans, DuctingMods on the cpu fans/heatsinks, Logitech 4.1 speakers and now I have a 13" Neon Light to install in the case.

Wanna hear about my other pc with the dual monitors (17" & 21"). :D

[JamminJoeyB]

Sounds like a sweet looking and sweet running rig. Sure why not tell us about your other system. I think the guys still running p266s will need to upgrade after they drool all over and short out thier systems.

Why not save yourself a bundle and get one of those kodak disposable cameras with the digital prints option. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=1046&pq-locale=en_US

I plan on running a dual monitor also. I guess I know who will be the first to respond when I get my new vid card and monitor and I run into a problem not covered in the readme or forums.

[glussier]

13 case fans, DuctingMods on the cpu fans/heatsinks


:eek: It would be cheaper to run a dual Xeon DP setup. ;)

[roadorange]

Originally posted by Hayl
why not just do a search for the 500 billion other threads like this?
oh. i didn't know there are millions of other threads like this poll.
closed this topic if you like.

hm..... In addition, you said that there were old thread like this one. THose old threads are too old.
People keep changing different type of linux system. I think it's time to re-count what's favorite linux distribution.

[Hayl]

Originally posted by roadorange
People keep changing different type of linux system. I think it's time to re-count what's favorite linux distribution.

Look on distrowatch.com if you want stats on what is popular.

PS: all these threads are now being merged into a MAIN "What distro" thread in /dev/random.

[linuxaholic]

My previous thread was locked, that was mainly outa my own mistake. I want to know the advantages of Debian over RedHat when it comes to the networking and usabillity as a server part. Please help me. thanx

[philkiwi2k3]

what if debian didnt have apt-get, dselect and dpkg, but another packaging system like RPM ?

would you still use it ?
if no, what would you use? :confused:

im asking this because i feel that all debian users use it because of the packaging system... i may be wrong ;) :confused:

[o0zi]

If it didn't have apt, I'd use Gentoo:D

[Sepero]

Originally posted by philkiwi2k3
im asking this because i feel that all debian users use it because of the packaging system... i may be wrong ;) :confused: Well, not ALL of us. I use it because it's the most pro-GNU distribution out there. The apt system is just an added bonus. ;)

[JohnT]

(originally posted by mdwatts)Wanna hear about my other pc with the dual monitors (17" & 21").

NO......:p

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by JohnT
NO......:p

:(

:D

Hey JT... I was just thinking about you yesterday and wondered what happened as you've been away from JL for a while.

[deanrantala]

Hey MD....

Howabout:

Quad Xeon 800's
Dual 80 gig SCSI 15k rpm (onboard raid)
2.4 gig SDRAM
- no AGP however:( It was a pull from a business thaat went under and sold me all the server equip. for $500! I got a GeForce 4 gx PCI video card in it - it has no AGP support. But is still pretty nice.
It also resides in a "Super Flower" windowed case with purple cold cathodes and 5 fans (Xeons run pretty cool). Had dual monitors - but switched to single 19 inch with a 36 inch(TV) for Media playback.

You should try a kernel compile on this baby!

[Artimus]

So far, just various versions of Slackware around here, but I'd like to move my webserver to OpenBSD.

[Erikqwerty]

Originally posted by Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379
I tried muLinux, and thought it was pretty nice. But, it's actually a 2-floppy distro, with a kernel disk and a root disk. After it loads, it runs from the memory.

Last check, it used some really old kernel, but it looks like a recent version was released:

http://mulinux.sunsite.dk/
Does mulinux have included software for office dockuments that can be read in openoffice or Kword? and can it save them to a floppy?
Also, mulinux cannot harm the data on your HHD can it?

[MadCommando]

I tried mandrake, and it wasn't really suiting me. I'm looking to experiment with other linux distros, a friend of mine mentioned slackware was powerful, I think I might get the iso's and install it. Is the installation / configuration / driver-setup / distro-as-a-whole, too difficult for an extreme linux newbie?

[serz]

No, it's not that hard. If you're willing to learn, then it's ok.

Don't forget to read the docs at slackware.com!

And.. good luck with Slack :)

[Erikqwerty]

Originally posted by drfelip
Hi! I'm new here!

I'm looking for a good Linux distro. I tryed Mandrake 9.0 and I liked it very much because it's very easy to install and everything is set up easily. But it runs VERY slow on my computer (Pentium MMX 233 MHz, 64 MB RAM), even on IceWM.

Can anybody give me advice about a Linux distro easy to install and set up, but that runs fast on my hardware?

Thanks in advance.
funny, I have 9.1 on a pentium 233 running gnome and only 128 mb of RAM, and it runs great.

[fatTrav]

i think slack is about the easiest distro to install.

i read this quote once before on this board and it holds very true
"reading...it's what linux users do."

slack might not be the easiest to configure but it is by no means terribly difficult. i dumped slack on an old pos compaq box and it found everything and set up nearly everything i needed.

maybe try out an rpm based distro like redhat. that one is pretty easy and is my distro of choice. lots of gui config tools to help get your feet wet.

hth

travis

[serz]

Also, take a look to these (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=716805&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending) guides by darkbolt and slackware, on how to install Slackware.

[Erikqwerty]

Mandrake 9.1 GREAT for linux begginers, has a very easy and good install (and fast- a little over an hour!(thats fast)) It detects most hardware no problem!

[mage492]

I've found that the installation was pretty simple. (Actually, that's probably why a lot of distros out there "borrow" the Slack installer.) You get to pick and choose what packages are installed on your system (unless you choose the newbie install, which throws in entire groups of stuff you may or may not want).

In all honesty, I think Slack's much easier than many people say it is. It's also a great learning distro, because it doesn't try to hide things from you. When doing the installation, here is the best recommendation I can give you:

Have a second computer (with internet access) beside you when you install it. When it comes to package selection, you can look at the package list on the slackware site to read descriptions of what they all are.

All-in-all, I think you'll probably enjoy Slackware. It's not difficult, as long as you're willing to do some reading, and don't panic if you feel lost, occasionally.

[MadCommando]

I think I'll do that. Download the isos, do some reading while I'm downloading. Start an install, commandeer my sister's computer during the install to decide packages, then check it out. See how I do. I'll probably reply to this thread if I come up with any big issues.

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by deanrantala
Hey MD....

Howabout:

Quad Xeon 800's
Dual 80 gig SCSI 15k rpm (onboard raid)
2.4 gig SDRAM
- no AGP however:( It was a pull from a business thaat went under and sold me all the server equip. for $500! I got a GeForce 4 gx PCI video card in it - it has no AGP support. But is still pretty nice.
It also resides in a "Super Flower" windowed case with purple cold cathodes and 5 fans (Xeons run pretty cool). Had dual monitors - but switched to single 19 inch with a 36 inch(TV) for Media playback.

You should try a kernel compile on this baby!

Not bad at all. Got a spare one you're not using? ;)

I compiled X4.3 from source yesterday on my dual MP's and it took a total of 35 minutes for all three steps (make World, make install & make install.man). Compiling a 2.4 kernel takes around 5 minutes.

I do have a 42" Toshiba widescreen that I plan to connect with my FX5600 for MS Flight Simulator and FlightGear on Linux.

I bought one of those 13" neon lights though I will either need to get a piece of plexiglass to replace the side panel or cut at 18"x18" hole in the metal of the existing panel and attach a piece of plexiglass or replace the entire side panel with one that already has a window. I'll also need a couple of 4" square holes as I plan to attach a couple more DuctingMods to the two already installed to pipe the hot air outside the case.

[deanrantala]

Just go ahead and do the "newbie" full-install. A full slack install is like 1.8 gigs. I still do the full install myself just because it is not a lot of space and the quickest way to install (otherwise you have to sit through a step-by-step-conformation of every package group) The only thing you will need after a full install is xine or mplayer if you are using it as a multimedia box. And slack is "the best" distro for compiling from source IMHO.

If you want a slack system that is identical in configuration - but just a "little" easier for "first time slackers", then try peanut linux as it even includes a few extra apps that Slackware leaves out.

"Once you slack, you never go back":)

[deanrantala]

Kernel compile on mine is about 8 - 10 minutes. It is fast, but Xeons are more for rock-solid reliability than sheer speed.

I got a real nice plasma cutter that is absolutely *excelent* for cutting perfectly sharp shapes out of PC cases. I also keep a small stock of 1/16 inch plexiglass handy:)

I'm thinking of an itanium - based system in a few months. They are also supposed to be pretty cool-running. Gotta wait until I finish saving the cash:( Also haven't checked out the linux support on those things yet:confused:

[jedthehumanoid]

Originally posted by philkiwi2k3
what if debian didnt have apt-get, dselect and dpkg, but another packaging system like RPM ?

would you still use it ?
if no, what would you use? :confused:

im asking this because i feel that all debian users use it because of the packaging system... i may be wrong ;) :confused:


i'd probably either use arch linux or learn bsd. (i don't like gentoo much as it's frustrating to start a long software compile and go to bed only to find out you messed up the use flags and it only got 20 minutes into a task that would take an hour or two total.) but yeah, i confess i like debian an aweful lot but without apt, i would see reason to migrate.

[carrja99]

"Once you slack, you never go back."


When he says "you'll never go back" he means you'll never go back to slackware.

First I tried Womandrake, although I liked it I found myself wanting. Then I tried Red Crap, and just didnt get a good feel from it. Then I tried Suckware, and it... well... sucked. Then I tried Debian, and I was pleased! Then the zealots screamed "GENTEWWW IS FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT!!" and I tried it... and waited.. and waited... and waited for the packages to compile. Then, whenever I wanted to update something I had to wait... and wait... and wait for the package to compile. Even at a second try, thinking maybe I forgot something that was suppose to make it actually operate so F**king fast after the packages were installed, I still noticed no major increase in speed in any area.

So I went back to Debian, which is far more superior and robust than any other of the distros out there! :D

[deanrantala]

And that is the wonderfull thing about the open source world.

Don't like RH? Try something else.
Don't like Mandy? Try something else.
Don't like Genteewwww? Try something else.

I personally use SuSE, Slack and Mandy. I can do anything with slack that any other distro does (except the apt-get thingy). And I recently ironed out the last obstacle - getting smooth-playing DVD playback on a celeron 450. Slack has served me well. From a server I biult for the Flodida Appollo beach chamber of commerence to the little celeron 450 in my garage that now plays DVD's without a hitch. To say that ANY distro sucks is a matter of preference and opinion. Just as I feel configuring Debian is always a pain in the arse - so do some dislike Slack, RH or any other Distro for some reason.

To sum it all up: Comments like carrja99's should be reserved for the "main distro rant". The person who started this thread wanted to know if slack was a hard distro to use. And as happens quite often, this turns into a "wich distro" rant.

Lets keep things in order a little?

[MadCommando]

yeah I burned the iso, read the help file enclosed, I think I'm ready for an install. I'll do it tomorrow night. And hopefully I'll be able to post a reply with Mozilla via Slack. :D I think once I get the hang of slack I'll continue trying other distros, try the different flavors of linux out. Thanks for all the help.

[mairving]

Slack is a more difficult install that RH or MDK, since it doesn't partition the HD for you. You have the use CFDISK or FDISK to do that. The driver support is not as good as RH either. I had to go over to Intel to get a driver for one of their GB NIC's with Slack but RH found it right away. It is also more difficult loading Slack if you have a SCSI drive since if you select the default image, it won't find your HD's. In other words, it doesn't hold your hand (or tell you what to do) like RH does.

Still all in all, it is my distro of choice. The main reason is that you can load a very minimum config very easily. I also believe that it runs faster than RH and you don't have to mess with rpm's. Case in point, I was building a fileserver and wanting a minimum amount of services on it. Despite of what I told RH on install, it always installed Sendmail even though it was unchecked. So I think you have more control in Slack than you do any other distro with the exception of maybe Gentoo.

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by JamminJoeyB
Sounds like a sweet looking and sweet running rig. Sure why not tell us about your other system.

Why not save yourself a bundle and get one of those kodak disposable cameras with the digital prints option. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=1046&pq-locale=en_US


Besides a Pentium Pro 200 (all scsi with 256mb) running Netware 5.1 and a plan to build a new home server to run OpenUnix 8.0, my other pc is getting a bit old now (1.5 years).

AMD 1.3
Abit KT7A
768mb
SCSI Controller for DAT drive
SB Live 5.1
Roland sound card with Roland 76-key midi controller keyboard
17" and 21" Compaq monitors (21" is Trinitron)
52x24x52 LG CDRW
16x Sony DVD
Radeon VE though I just switched video cards as I put in my GF3 Ti200 64mb (for the 21") which I had in my main box and replaced with the FX5600 and also added a PCI TX2 (32mb) for the 17".

Whenever I finish cabling the second pc and putting in the neon light in the main which I will need to either replace the side panel with a windowed one or cut a hole in the side of the existing and put in a piece of plexiglass, I'll borrow a digital camera from a friend at work at take a few pics to post here. :)

[carrja99]

Originally posted by mairving
So I think you have more control in Slack than you do any other distro with the exception of maybe Gentoo.

As opposed to debian, where you can select whatever specific packages you want to install, and if you missed something you can just apt-get the packages afterwards?

[moojuece]

slack was my virgin install...knew almost nothing about linux and i liked the slackware name...took some learning but im betting if you are willing to try linux you are willing to learn....slackware is the best desision i have ever made....

[serz]

Originally posted by carrja99
As opposed to debian, where you can select whatever specific packages you want to install, and if you missed something you can just apt-get the packages afterwards?
Well, you can check the slack cd for the file "FILELIST.txt" and search the path for the package there. Then all you do is installpkg /path/to/package.

[mairving]

Originally posted by carrja99
As opposed to debian, where you can select whatever specific packages you want to install, and if you missed something you can just apt-get the packages afterwards?
I always forget about Debian. I haven't forgiven them for Corel yet.

[carrja99]

Originally posted by serz
Well, you can check the slack cd for the file "FILELIST.txt" and search the path for the package there. Then all you do is installpkg /path/to/package.

As opposed to Debian, where you're prompted to decide if you want to select any packages individually during install?

[Darkbolt]

sigh...This isnt a 'which distro is better' thread, this is a 'is slackware good for a newbie' thread, as was already stated

Do other distros have their pro's? yes. They also have their cons. As does slackware (well, I've heard it has cons anyway...)

However he's not asking that, he's asknig if slackware is a good distro for a newbie. So if you want to debate the pros and cons of debian, and all other distributions, wouldnt it be better to do it in the main "which distro" thread?

As for my opinion, If you have some basic experiance with mandrake, it's an excellent choice, but there is a large lurning curve aswell, namely as it doesnt hold your hand though hardware or software setup.

It'll be either a love or hate thing for you once you try it, f you love it, you'll love it to death, and if you dont, then you hate it, atleast thats what i've seen from people anyway.

[serz]

Originally posted by carrja99
As opposed to Debian, where you're prompted to decide if you want to select any packages individually during install?
Expert install.

[hyp_spec]

its more like a slackware vs debian thread... I love both, both are 10yrs old and both kick just as much ***! The only beef I have with slack right now, is that its running slower than my current Debian setup right now... and it takes a while to get everything setup the way I want, in debian its easy, just recompile freetype and apt-get install openbox :)

[deanrantala]

Anyone here got any experience with Solaris? I have always wanted to see what it's like. Since I got slack down pretty well now, will it be that hard using solaris since Slack is supposedly so "unixish"?

PS: Solaris comes with X and a couple good Wm's, right?

[Darkbolt]

solaris is proprietary, and only runs on sparc processors if im mistaken

[bosox79]

Originally posted by Darkbolt
solaris is proprietary, and only runs on sparc processors if im mistaken

check this out Darkbolt
Solaris Operating System for x86 Platforms (http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/x86/index.html);)

& I had solaris 7 running on my box at one time also:cool:

[tanna]

can someone help me?

I am trying to find a distro that will have harware detection on startup and will detect my printer and configure it easily, like redhat kuduzu or whatever and is non-rpm based or if it is, it is not focused towards the newbie so that I can only use gui stuff, but I still want gui things, and also a nice install would be a plus, though I guess I could do it without but it would be nice.


I have tried mandrake, and two directly modified red hat distros, JAMD, and Lorma.

mandrake was buggy for me. Lorma was okay but I was having hard time with no gcc, and when I install gcc by rpm it gives me problems, and then it gets just tiring. JAMD was really good but I cant do some thigns because it is locking it or so I was told :confused: , and I hate installing by rpm because it makes so many dependencies and gets me tired, and when install by soure it never finds X or gtk even though I export the path. so I just end up not installing it.


edit: the thing is it has to configure wiht my printer easily as said like that thing. ..but I need one that configures wiht my printer like that i dont have to go driver scrambaling and setup cups and all that by myself, which is going to make me go through a lot of stuff..

its a HP Deskjet690C.

[o0zi]

Look at Knoppix (http://www.knoppix.net - not the official site, but a good one). It's a LiveCD, but it's very easy to install to hard disk, and your hardware should already be set up.