what is the JL mission?

[stiles]

Is just Linux actively trying to run people away from its forums? I've read the 'Community Help Posting Guidelines' and that's ok as guidelines, but to become 'the law' it is just going to turn ppl off. How can a discussion board be a community without inviting discussion? I don't have a problem with RTFM is someone can point out which man page(s) are relevant, but this STFW when the person answering doesn't have a clue about the topic is just plane stupid (it can even be damaging when the person try’s a search and doesn't understand the question and links an inappropriate project as an answer). I have never been criticized for helping someone on any help board till the other day when mdwatts made his pass the spoon comet. Hell it didn't end there he went on to purport that he knew how I obtained the links that I provide which he was 100% wrong about, it wasn't from searching but from following a few threads on another discussion board. Is it really the policy of this board to discourage ppl from asking and sharing what documentation that they have found useful? And this whole business of moving threads, come on if it's not an egregious fault of the poster try not to move it, I mean you only look stupid when you move a thread only to move it back to where it came from. Ok lets say this all together over moderation is not a good thing. Thank you drive through.

[hard candy]

/solution >> ?

[deathadder]

firstly stiles could you post a link to the thread u were on about cause i cant believe that mdwatts would do that

i dont think that the forum is discouragein ppl from askin or sharin information, from where im sittin it's just they're tryin to get ppl to search first, if the poster says 'ive searched for this but i dont know what im lookin at' or 'ive searched but i didnt know how to search properly' then thats a different thing but the times you get people askin questions that have been covered hundreds of times because they were to lazy to ask then i think the mods or any1 else can say 'search' without postin the soultion to the problem

personaly i dont think its over moderation and i think that the mods are doin a great job and that they should keep it up

just my thoughts

[mrBen]

No coppers, but also no sponsors, no hosting, and probably the odd lawsuit for libel. ;)

The posting guidelines are there in order that as many people as possible can be helped with their problems as quickly as possible.

[JamminJoeyB]

Originally posted by rocketmonkey
every g out there has their own opinions.. and thats fo shizzle, as for mezles, I think moderations is a form of control not keeping all you wizzles under control fo dizzle.

Is this english? I don't understand half of this. Is it just me or are the rest of you confused by this?


I second the mods are doing a great job. Afterall they are doing this on their own time.

[mdwatts]

My mission here is to try to help the JL members to the best of my (limited) knowledge. That does not involve repeating the same answer over and over again such as those 'mount windows partitions' threads. Now that should not stop anyone else from continuing responding in the thread.

Whenever I post a searching suggestion, I either include some keywords to try or post the results of my search results for what I believe will list the most helpful threads.

I don't believe I ever post 'why don't you search first', but instead include search suggestions on the best way to locate the previous threads that should contain the solution.

The LDAP thread stiles was referring to was not a subject I am that familiar with though I did post searching suggestions and links to sites that I know of.

Moving threads also benefit the member that posted the question as it is now listed in two forums. Sorta like a legal crosspost.

And the JL Community Help Posting Guidelines were put in place to benefit all that utilize the JL forums. We had numerous complaints from members about crossposting and irrelevant subjects of which the moderators and admins decided to take action.

We discussed the Posting Guidelines for weeks in our Moderator forum before we decided on the appropriate contents. It was all approved by the JL/Jupitermedia administrators before being posted as a sticky thread.

An the JL mission is to run a helpful Linux site that caters to newbies and guru's alike while maintaining some sense of order that should hopefully benefit all those that visit JL.

[hard candy]

I looked at the thread Stiles was talking about thread (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107062) . It didn't seem that big a deal to me. I've had threads locked and moved and after I cried in my pillow I got over it.
Slashdot,linuxquestions.org, and linuxbeginner.org are all a little more liberal but I prefer this place. It all depends on where you grow up I guess.
Now if I were paying for coming here I might be a little more peeved about being locked or moved or moderated-but this is gravy so I'll not complain about a few lumps now and then.

[redhat81]

We speak English, not ebonics.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by rocketmonkey
i only beens heres at dis here place for a day... I didn't say the mod dudes were bad, I just says why are theys heres?

what use guys problems with the way I speaka?


I probably wouldn't have any difficulty with the way you spoke, but not being in your actual presence I wouldn't be able to attest to that. Now as to the method of your writing, that is an entirely different subject. Such a method makes it more than difficult for someone to answer any of your questions in the proper context not to mention seeking your help in answers you might provide. If your just here to have fun, then all of the above is a moot point and can be ignored. Then I say by all means continue in the same vein.

[sharth]

Well, basically, we don't own anything here. we, being myself, you, most anyone that posts here, all of the mods. brian has probably the largest say as what happens here, but the mods get their input. However, brian's word is not canon anyways, there are higher ups. "suits". They make the fun decisions. A bit ago, we had a lot more freedom in what we could talk about. However, the United States, and quite a few other places around the world, went into a recession. Thats generally bad. So, internet.com (the people that own this site, and sponsor it) said, hey, we need to lower some of our costs, that way we can live through this recession, and not hurt our user base too much. With justlinux, a revamping occured. what used to be linuxnewbie.org (lno), became justlinux.com (jl). with that change, it was a move from general community having amusments togeathers (like pointless threads on religion or war, or things frith thought up,(no offense intended :) ). So a cut back is what happened. internet.com wanted to get rid of some of it's bandwith usage, which would save them money. With Jl/ lno, brian + mods? (not sure how much the mods have to do with it), changed over to a new direction. more pure linux help or discussion. less general blah.

Thats the history lesson. Now, the reason Mike, and some others (I have as well), simply post search for it, with or without keywords, is because often times, we saw the answer, or know the answer is in there. Personally, I find it quicker and easier to simply search google and the forums for any info. that way I don't have to wait and wait to get the answer to a problem.

Now, I'm just gonna go through some of the replys and answer what I can. :rocketmonkey: Moderators are here to moderate discussions. If someone spams the forums with porn spam, they can delete the posts, and ban the offender. They basically keep the place clean, and on-topic. oh, and to the language, I personally don't mind it. as long as its partially readable. But if you do have a question or answer to someone (who could use the answer, or if you actually want an answer), please also leave a translation for those of us who are less inspired than you :) :stiles: i doubt theres been double moves, all the mods have equal power though, so It's possible for them to not have realized that it had been, or just the two thought it belonged in diffferent places, but I can't see that as being common...

Well, just my 2 cents, Personally, I like the mods, and I think the channel is doing all right. I found it a bit more interesting pre-change, but alot of the stuff is still okay, so I'm still staying. :)

[Tom Moody]

I gave up asking questions her a long time ago. The "Search First" and "RTFM" when they had no idea how much time I had already searched and read was a very big put down that really discouraged me from EVER asking a question here

Tom Moody:(

[arioch]

I think the moderation done here is o.k. Once in a while an occasional newbie does get whacked too fast though, I think that's mostly because the "sharks" to some extent have forgotten what it's actually like to be bewildered in a completely new environment. When i first got into this OS I felt like I had just been ejected over the jungles of sumatra without a map :D for me, Linuxnewbie.org was/is like an SOS channel.

Nobody is forced to answer a question they think is utterly lame. It's better not to answer, than to answer and be an ahole about it;) The future of OSS rests on the shoulders of future Linuxusers/newbies, therefore too much whacking is counterproduktive in the long run. When I come across a "no screens..." (is that a classic or what?!) I usually reply "Search the forum:) WITH the smiley. Short, concise and to the point. No whacking.

It is my personal experience though, that people don't mind answering even stupid questions, as long as the poster has put some effort into searching first. - fair enough.

I think the moderators around here are doing a nice job. Mdwatts just passed his 30.000 th. post. That's a LOT of assistance:cool:

The continued spread of OSS is extremely dependent on new users and sites like this one. Keep rockin'

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Tom Moody
I gave up asking questions her a long time ago. The "Search First" and "RTFM" when they had no idea how much time I had already searched and read was a very big put down that really discouraged me from EVER asking a question here

Tom Moody:(


Tom, could you point me to a thread where someone took that approach with you? I'm sorry to see you discouraged after only 10 posts. Maybe overlooking a particular individuals methods of help will allow you to see that help does exist here, if not this site would have vanished long ago.

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by Tom Moody
I gave up asking questions her a long time ago. The "Search First" and "RTFM" when they had no idea how much time I had already searched and read was a very big put down that really discouraged me from EVER asking a question here

Tom Moody:(

Did you let us know in the thread that you have tried searching for the solution? I have a habit of assuming some have not bothered to search at all.

And I always try to post relevant search results or perhaps search criteria that you may not have thought of trying.

Just remember that not everyone will know the answer to every single question. I know that I certainly do not. :( But I'm trying to learn as much as I can. :)

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by JohnT
Tom, could you point me to a thread where someone took that approach with you? I'm sorry to see you discouraged after only 10 posts. Maybe overlooking a particular individuals methods of help will allow you to see that help does exist here, if not this site would have vanished long ago.

I couldn't locate a thread that was actually started by Tom Moody (http://justlinux.com/forum/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=677795&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending). Only ones that he has replied in.

[mi6]

Well, IMHO if the mission here is to help the Linux community by providing information and help with Linux related problems then I would have to say it is successful.

As you can tell by my post count, I am fairly new to Linux. But in the last year that I have been using Linux I have gained far more knowledge from here than anywhere else on the net.

Using the search button is a powerful tool. It is my (and your) virtual database of answers for most common (and many uncommone) questions.

Most of my few posts come from a single thread that lasted over a week with people trying to help me get ssh access through port forwarding. I did get a few "sharp" replies because of my inability to make myself clear. When I did finally make myself clear, the "sharp" poster quickly apologized for their comments. Try that on any Usenet group!!

I think the problem, and what I was put off by at first, is lack of newbie posters knowledge. Now that I have some time using Linux, I can ask the questions in a manner in which they will get answered.

I didn't believe that the criptic man pages could be helpful to me until I actually tried to read them. RTFM does have it's uses. If you RTFM and have a question about what the man pages state, that is a good place to start with your questions.

Overall, I think JL's mission is successful, over course there are a few people that post "sharp" replies because they are on a different level of knowledge than us. Have patience, you will soon understand what they are saying and why.

[ovf]

I wasn't going to say anything but since the subject has already been raised, I to find the board more repressive lately. I've seen threads locked because the moderator didn't find the subject line adequate, even though it looked reasonable to me. At the same time I've seen moderators respond to posts that, in my opinion, had a totaly inadequate subject line. I'd be reluctant to post a question if I had to worry about whether or not it met with moderator approval.

[bazoukas]

Originally posted by Tom Moody
I gave up asking questions her a long time ago. The "Search First" and "RTFM" when they had no idea how much time I had already searched and read was a very big put down that really discouraged me from EVER asking a question here

Tom Moody:(


LOL....so true.
Look at my registretion date and look at my post number.
The other day I asked something in the Software forum I think and few people and a mod jump all over me.

My number of posts and registration date will tell someone that I use the search feature like a crazy mofo.
Leave the attitude people outside the door and use your common sense.
If moding this place is getting on your nerves maybe its time to move on. Then you also have some members that are like a horsefly (horse is the mod).

But allas for the most part the people that come here are not so fast to jump on the gun so I still come here because of them.

[Darkbolt]

Alot of the times when the mods tell someone to search, Its because it's a commonly asked question

I believe mdwatts said something along the lines of "Why post and wait for a response, when you can search and get one immediately".

additionally, I think from one's own stand point it's better to search, because then you really in a way do everything on your own, and can be proud of that, not having had someone hold your hand along the way.

I think most of the people here's mission is to learn, and help when possible.

[stiles]

Originally posted by mdwatts
My mission here is to try to help the JL members to the best of my (limited) knowledge. That does not involve repeating the same answer over and over again such as those 'mount windows partitions' threads. Now that should not stop anyone else from continuing responding in the thread.

Whenever I post a searching suggestion, I either include some keywords to try or post the results of my search results for what I believe will list the most helpful threads.

I don't believe I ever post 'why don't you search first', but instead include search suggestions on the best way to locate the previous threads that should contain the solution.

Well first off I really don't care if you post STFW or RTFM but I do think it can be harmful in the respect of running ppl off but that's really not my concern (yea I have been guilty of being very brief with my answers on occasion, and quite frankly it all depends on how the poster reacts if I will be forthcoming on more details).

Originally posted by mdwatts
The LDAP thread stiles was referring to was not a subject I am that familiar with though I did post searching suggestions and links to sites that I know of.

Well first of all I'm more concerned about your response to my reply and then you putting words into my mouth (I'm a grown man and if you want to ask me how I found a resource I'll tell you straight up, but don't speak for me, I'll speak for myself, thank you very much). IMSO (that's strong) you were wrong on both points, LDAP can be an exhaustive subject and it is hardly spoon feeding someone to point out to some docs that are specific to RFC 2307 (RTFRfc). LDAP is far from limited to just that, I do suggest that you actually follow that one link that I said has a 500 page pdf and see for yourself the breath of applications that LDAP is applicable too.

This really goes deeper that just you so I don't want you to take this as a rag on mdwatts thing. I first felt really bad on this board after seeing a windows admin trying to set different group policies (he wanted one group to have read only access, and the other to have read write access to the files on the samba share), it was disgusting to see him get flamed when the ppl flaming him were ignorant of the question flat out. It was a simple POSIX ACL issue, but honestly I was not sure if the version of RH has ACL support in the kernel (I've been using a hacked install of potato with XFS and later woody on XFS which both had ACL support for almost 3 years now, but the two userspace interfaces were different, I'm really so happy that the new libs support a consistent interface which is like the solaris interface). Come on here is a guy that doesn't know much about UNIX and ask a question and gets flaimed cause a bunch of linux desktop users who don't have a clue of multi-user environments set off to defend their system, that's sad. You know I can't even get a job in IT/IS even though I have my freaking OCP cert (yea yea I'm an oracle certified DBA), I would have my SCSA if I thought it was worth $150 to me but from what I have seen it's fsckin worthless (I already passed the first SCSA test I haven't bothered with the second). You know I passed my last OCP exam the day after Enron's credit rating was devalued to junkbond rating. Guess where I live? Look to your left if you need a hint. Ohh wow I just spend a significant amount of money on education cause I love the UNIX environment and am very intrigued with IS technology only to see the largest Solaris shop outside of Sun and by far the largest Oracle shop in the region collapse the freaking day before I even finish my first certification. Yea well I just feel like crap after reveling all this so I’m out for now.

[mdwatts]

stiles... In my own opinion and judging by the small amount of LDAP related questions posted here, I felt it would be unlikely that the member posting that thread would receive expert help on the subject (certainly including myself) and hence the reason I suggested searching G4L and posted a couple of links I know of.

The next LDAP/ACL questions I'll leave for you. ;)

[Gertrude]

The only thing that I've noticed to be a little lame is the locking of a thread soley based on the fact that the subject doesn't totally relate to the question. If someone posts a "newbie needs help" , "serious computer issues", or "What happened to my g1bs0n?!?!?". Why not just leave a post in his thread telling him that you changed the name of his thread to "new thread name" and that in the future to post a more relevant subject? Otherwise if you lock the thread he is just going to re post the same question, causing more server resources to be used, and delay him from getting help. I just don't see the point to lock a perfectly good question because someone doesn't have good posting etiquette, and didn't post a relevant subject. Other then that things seem to be fine.



EDIT:

This is the most recent example I remember seeing:

http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107228

[mdwatts]

The admins and moderators are planning to discuss the posting guidelines further to see if we can impove on them. I've already posted a thread in the Moderator forum asking for suggestions/opinions from the others.

We all (or should) know the reason behind the subject posting rule as it is to benefit all that visit JL either as a member or guest.

1. All members have the responsibility of reading the JL Community Help Posting Guidelines sticky thread that is posted right at the top of nearly every forum. If I were new here, I would of course read that before even posting or reading the threads.

2. We would like to make it easier for all members/guests to locate relevant topics by searching the forums and that includes searching 'by titles only'. Posting with a subject of 'Newbie needs help' does not help anyone that is searching for the answer even though the thread may contain the exact solution they are looking for. Is it really that hard to at least post a subject that relates to the question?

Soundcard problem?? Why not post a subject like 'SBLive soundcard configuration problems'. Is it that hard to think of a proper subject?

3. We either lock or remove irrelevant subject threads depending on whether they have received replies or not and we DO send a PM explaining the reason and including the text of the content of their thread to make it easier to repost and not have to retype it all again.

4. Threads are moved to the correct forum they should belong in to also help with the searching. If I were searching for a solution to a MySQL problem, I would first try searching in the Web/Security forum where the forum description does mention 'MySQL' besides the other topics that belong in that forum. Kinda makes sense to me.

All of this takes up the moderators own time to do all this though we do so to benefit all the members and guests. We are just trying to make it a little easier for everyone to find solutions to their problems.

[BaVinic]

I am not sure if this is going to be helpful, but here is a thought.

I think this whole locking/deleting thread thing is very minor on the scale of the way things work, but would it not be prudent to require 2 (or more) mods to approve the locking of a thread?

Let's say Mr. Mod1 wakes up in a bad mood, because someone ate his corn flakes the night before, sees a topic that has the words corn flakes in it, and gets upset and locks the thread. wouldn't it be better if Mr. Mod1 needed to get a second mod to approve the locking? to make sure that the locking/deleting is justified?

I mean we all have days that we just are in a real bad mood, whether it is from someone eating our corn flakes, or our wife has left us for the girl next store (not a real life scenario) :)

Anyway, this is just my thoughts.

:D
BaVinic

[mdwatts]

The only problem is that I am always in a bad mood and someone is always eating my cornflakes or cherrios. :)

Good idea though we may not have two moderators logged on at the same time.

We are currently discussing this in the Mod forum and hopefully come up with a few ideas. Thanks.

[BaVinic]

On a serious note, I wanted to add that I have the highest level of respect for the Mods here, I did not want to imply by my last post that i did not, I trust fully the decisions made by the Mods, and know that none of them would use this forum or their position in this forum in anyway that was not professional, and above board.

This forum has been and continues to be a great resource for me, I have no complaints!.

:)

BaVinic

[serz]

Did you do your own re-search when you started using Linux? I don't think so. Too many people starting doing it after someone told them.

And they, finally figure out that there's no need to ask for something that it's already there, somewhere.

When I suggest something I try to make a search for them, or just giving them advices on what to do. Telling them to Search on Google/JL stills helps. The answer is there...

[BaVinic]

Originally posted by serz
Did you do your own re-search when you started using Linux? I don't think so. Too many people starting doing it after someone told them.

And they, finally figure out that there's no need to ask for something that it's already there, somewhere.

When I suggest something I try to make a search for them, or just giving them advices on what to do. Telling them to Search on Google/JL stills helps. The answer is there...

Actually, yes I did all my own research before even opening the box that my RH6.x came in, that is how I found this place, the problem I found was there were not many places ( at the time ) that actually offered Good advice, most referered you to man pages ( that at the time were useless, because Liux was not installed) or gave links to some document sites that were just overwhelming to say the least. J/L ( LNO at the time) offered an "easy" way out for many, here you can get the kind of interactive information that makes running and setting up Linux so much fun. and I am sure there are others who feel the same way.

The downside to this forum ( if there is one ) is that it is too easy to just ask the question, than it is to search for the answer, it has taken me a little while to learn the benifits of searching before asking, as I am sure it will for others.

( I am spending a lot of my 0.02's today ) :)

BaVinic

[mdwatts]

Take for instance this thread on MySQL tables (http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107326) that was posted in the Technical forum earlier on this morning.

I didn't know the answer, but felt it should belong in Web/Security where the MySQL questions should be posted, moved it and what do you know... it has received a few suggestions already.

I find that some members only visit the forums for which they are knowledgeable on and posting in the correct forum (or us mods moving the thread) gives the member a greater chance of having their question answered.

BaVinic... I never doubted you didn't have respect for the members AND the moderators. Thanks for mentioning though.

It is not easy for any of the moderators to make decisions on what thread to move, lock or remove. We don't like to, but then we all agreed (and the admins) to run a professional Linux help site that benefits all.

[hard candy]

When you lock a thread do you use threadlock? I haven't been able to loosen a single one of the darn threads so far and I was thinking of sending off for one of those fancy wrenches they advertise on TV. Do you think I could loosen a thread using one of those?
I appreciate all the hard work the moderators do although I may grumble to myself now and then. I think B.Proffit should give the mods at least a 25% raise and a prepaid healthcare plan. If not that, at least one of these:
Ultimate Linux Box (http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6525) with the dual AMD MP's, 2GB of memory, and at least 4 of the Barracuda drives. He should realize that these are required for you all to do the best job. Shoot I bet there's some labor law somewhere that the mods could exploit to blackmail JL into ordering these. My sister's brother-in-law knows a lawyer who would only need a couple of hundred $ upfront to do this for you- email me and I'll let you know where to send the money.
I think these mods do the best darn job of any mods in the world and please don't lock or move any more of my threads and I'll keep sucking up like this forever! (I've got to go- there's some brown spots on my nose)
Bye and puppy chow.

[sharth]

Originally posted by hard candy
When you lock a thread do you use threadlock? I haven't been able to loosen a single one of the darn threads so far and I was thinking of sending off for one of those fancy wrenches they advertise on TV. Do you think I could loosen a thread using one of those?I've broken a socket wrench with the whole wd-40 and unstick-the-stupid-lug-nut-spray, but, the lug nut won out. :)

[gretchen]

Originally posted by serz
Did you do your own re-search when you started using Linux? I don't think so. Too many people starting doing it after someone told them.

And they, finally figure out that there's no need to ask for something that it's already there, somewhere.


Yes, I've always tried to do my own research and when I post a question, I've tried everything I can find on the subject.

However, I left Linux a few times simply because the answers I did find were too technical and the people I found were not friendly. (That was quite some time ago so I'm sure I never encountered anyone here ;) )

My point, RTFM is hard to do when the manual is incomprehensible. It's very discouraging and no one wants to ask for help understanding the manual when the last question they asked sent them to it.

This isn't meant to criticize anyone, just remember what it felt like to really be a newbie.

[serz]

Guys, don't missinterpret me, I'm talking in "general" terms.

[bproffitt]

I seem to be coming late to this party, but here is my stab at the original question:

The mission of JustLinux is to provide a resource for people to get their questions about Linux answered in a timely manner.

To do this, we have had to make some concessions on how we run this site. Given the hundreds of new questions that come through every day, the all-volunteer mod squad could never monitor them all. So, they encourage users to try Google first, then come here to tap into our expertise.

This may seem harsh, but I agree with the mods' policy 100%, because ultimately, we want people to get the right answer. If that means we have to send people off-site to do so, that's okay. Our mission is complete.

There are times, of course, when misunderstandings and mis-postings can foul up communications between the readers and the mods. That's bound to happen, and I encourage people to keep the lines of communication open if you don't agree with a mod's actions. And for goodness' sakes, don't flame them--they have neither the time or energy to contend with some flaming bozo, and I don't blame them one bit.

The moderators take time debating over threads that are on the border line of our policies. To say that they don't have a personal stake in the ramifications of their decisions would be very much an error. Personally, I am very grateful for the moderators' time and energy, and hope they continue their consistent course.

No, we are not as liberal as LQ or /., but this is the niche we want to fill, not their's. Can't please all of the people all of the time.

We are currently discussing additional features to the site that would help facilitate faster answering of questions. First, we're going to redesign the vBulletin forum buttons so we can make the Search function for the forums more visible.

Secondly, we are about to start a campaign to greatly increase the content on the Help File Library, getting the content there up-to-date, and adding to it as well.

Once these features are in place, we ideally won't have to recommend Googling as much--the answers you need may be found right here.

Peace,
Brian Proffitt

[AlexPlank]

what i cant stand is how moderators changethread subjects to "more descriptive ones" without even consulting the author of the thread prior to doing so. They also change things in the threads without asking. Like the spelling of things and stuff even when the spelling was a different word/meaning than the spelling it was changed to.

[AlexPlank]

Originally posted by bproffitt


Secondly, we are about to start a campaign to greatly increase the content on the Help File Library, getting the content there up-to-date, and adding to it as well.

Once these features are in place, we ideally won't have to recommend Googling as much--the answers you need may be found right here.

Peace,
Brian Proffitt

it would be really helpful if the library were a wiki.

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by AlexPlank
what i cant stand is how moderators changethread subjects to "more descriptive ones" without even consulting the author of the thread prior to doing so. They also change things in the threads without asking. Like the spelling of things and stuff even when the spelling was a different word/meaning than the spelling it was changed to.

You still don't get it, do you? :rolleyes:

Did you even bother to read anything in this thread and try to understand our reasoning behind the thread moves and subject changes? Guess not. :confused:

Actually I am quite sure after receiving this PM response from you when I asked you to remove my name from your signature.


My signature never included your name. You must have been mistaken. I wrote mdwatt.s which includes a period.


And in case you are wondering, your comments HAVE been recorded in the Moderator forum.

[AlexPlank]

I get it. I think the subject change is ok. If you had actually read my post you would have seen that I only had a problem with the moderators doing so without notifying the author. If a mod has enough time to change the subject he probably has more than enough time to send an automated message to the author asking the author to change the subject.

EDIT:
I dont know why you felt it necessary to include a private conversation in the public forums. Secondly, I dont like how you immediately jumped on a simple suggestion I had by trying to prove my incompetence. Infact, You are one to talk about incompetence. I believe you to be the most annoying, condescending, meglomanaichal moderator in the whole forum. I find it extremely irritating when you make posts, as they usually prove unhelpful and sometimes even counterproductive because you scare away posters from the forum. I dont like the way you threaten others boasting your moderator status and believe that Justlinux would be a more positive environment if you tried to be more curteous to its members.

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by AlexPlank
I get it. I think the subject change is ok. If you had actually read my post you would have seen that I only had a problem with the moderators doing so without notifying the author. If a mod has enough time to change the subject he probably has more than enough time to send an automated message to the author asking the author to change the subject.

We do try to post in the thread that we have modified their subject to something a bit more question related, but then others start complaining why we are advertising the fact that we have changed the subject to begin with. Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Besides we spend enough of our own time notifying members (via PM's etc.) of certain threads that do not adhere to the posting guidelines. Pay us something and we'll do it. ;)

If they cannot read the JL Community Help Posting Guidelines sticky thread posted at the top of nearly every forum, they why should that be our problem? Can most here not see or understand that thread?

There was some talk about having that thread (or similar) display and require a perhaps click 'OK' when a new member registers for the first time, but that was soon decided to be a deterent on their actually using the forums. (see the recent posts in either JL Idea, Forum Suggestions etc.)

We had fully discussed the Posting Guidelines for weeks and weeks before coming up with the current rules and we feel they should greatly benefit all that frequent JL by making their searching and posting a little easier for all.

[bproffitt]

Originally posted by AlexPlank
what i cant stand is how moderators changethread subjects to "more descriptive ones" without even consulting the author of the thread prior to doing so. They also change things in the threads without asking. Like the spelling of things and stuff even when the spelling was a different word/meaning than the spelling it was changed to.

This is likely moot since you went out of your way to publicly insult a moderator and get yourself banned, but this is something I can answer for the benefit of everyone else, too.

We feel it neccessary to change the thread titles so we can help users browsing and searching the forums to find answers to their questions faster. It's not meant to demean or insult anyone, and we ask all forum users to try to help us abide by this policy.

Peace,
Brian

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by AlexPlank
I get it. I think the subject change is ok. If you had actually read my post you would have seen that I only had a problem with the moderators doing so without notifying the author. If a mod has enough time to change the subject he probably has more than enough time to send an automated message to the author asking the author to change the subject.

EDIT:
I dont know why you felt it necessary to include a private conversation in the public forums. Secondly, I dont like how you immediately jumped on a simple suggestion I had by trying to prove my incompetence. Infact, You are one to talk about incompetence. I believe you to be the most annoying, condescending, meglomanaichal moderator in the whole forum. I find it extremely irritating when you make posts, as they usually prove unhelpful and sometimes even counterproductive because you scare away posters from the forum. I dont like the way you threaten others boasting your moderator status and believe that Justlinux would be a more positive environment if you tried to be more curteous to its members.

And this from a member that spend at least 75% of their time in /dev/random ( I know as I just checked all your posts). That or asking for help. :confused:

Anyways I cannot say anymore than Brian has as I do believe he has explained (in full) what the JL mission is.

I personally thank all that contribute on a regular basis or whenever they do have time to help out in the JL Linux question forums. Everyone I'm sure appreciates your efforts the same as I do. Thank-you all.

[Alex Cavnar, aka alc6379]

Originally posted by Gertrude
The only thing that I've noticed to be a little lame is the locking of a thread soley based on the fact that the subject doesn't totally relate to the question. If someone posts a "newbie needs help" , "serious computer issues", or "What happened to my g1bs0n?!?!?". Why not just leave a post in his thread telling him that you changed the name of his thread to "new thread name" and that in the future to post a more relevant subject? Otherwise if you lock the thread he is just going to re post the same question, causing more server resources to be used, and delay him from getting help. I just don't see the point to lock a perfectly good question because someone doesn't have good posting etiquette, and didn't post a relevant subject. Other then that things seem to be fine.



EDIT:

This is the most recent example I remember seeing:

http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107228

I haven't thrown my two bits into this jar yet, but I feel I should, as I was the one who locked the aforementioned post. I actually provided the reasons why I locked the post in the thread. As a moderator, I have the right to delete/lock/edit any post which doesn't adhere to our posting guidelines. I was doing my job, just like several other times I've locked the same type of threads. I'll make no apology-- they could have read the posting guidelines.

But, two things can be taken into consideration. Unlike mdwatts, I'm not a Canadian moderator bot ;) . I'm a human being, and I, unlike mdwatts ;), make mistakes. Pile on top of that this is my first gig moderating a forum. I've opped IRC channels before, but nothing as large-scale as JLC. Personally, if anyone sees a mod "going back over" any thread I've moderated on, it can probably be chalked up to my relative lack of experience. Trust me, though-- the more I do it, the better I'll get.

[stiles]

Originally posted by bproffitt
I seem to be coming late to this party, but here is my stab at the original question:

The mission of JustLinux is to provide a resource for people to get their questions about Linux answered in a timely manner.

To do this, we have had to make some concessions on how we run this site. Given the hundreds of new questions that come through every day, the all-volunteer mod squad could never monitor them all. So, they encourage users to try Google first, then come here to tap into our expertise.

This may seem harsh, but I agree with the mods' policy 100%, because ultimately, we want people to get the right answer. If that means we have to send people off-site to do so, that's okay. Our mission is complete.

There are times, of course, when misunderstandings and mis-postings can foul up communications between the readers and the mods. That's bound to happen, and I encourage people to keep the lines of communication open if you don't agree with a mod's actions. And for goodness' sakes, don't flame them--they have neither the time or energy to contend with some flaming bozo, and I don't blame them one bit.

Ohhh I see the AUP (http://www.internet.com/corporate/privacy/aup.html) clause that applies to being offensive only is applicable to non jupitermedia employs or mods ;) . Anyways bproffitt thanks for calling me 'some flaming bozo'. Let me ask you this; have you even read this thread (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107062)? If not let me fill you in.

Originally posted by stiles
ldap auth links:

This (http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/docs/ldap-auth.php) is a good start.

Some (http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialLDAP.html#YOLINUXLDAPTUTORIALS) tutorials.

killer (http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/projects/awilliam/ldap.html) ldap reference, make sure you look at the 500 page pdf at the bottom of the page.

Originally posted by mdwatts
Originally posted by stiles
ldap auth links:

This (http://www.mandrakesecure.net/en/docs/ldap-auth.php) is a good start.

Some (http://www.yolinux.com/TUTORIALS/LinuxTutorialLDAP.html#YOLINUXLDAPTUTORIALS) tutorials.

killer (http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/projects/awilliam/ldap.html) ldap reference, make sure you look at the 500 page pdf at the bottom of the page.

You took all the fun init-0 had in looking forward to a bit of searching for reference material on LDAP. :rolleyes:

:D

Pass the spoon. :p

So bproffitt have you done your due diligence to be justified in calling me 'some flaming bozo'? Well you obviously think I'm incompetent, but the question is now for you bproffitt how does nss and pam work? It's a technical Linux related question which is relevant to ldap, but hay I'm the clueless bozo (AKA a foolish or incompetent person). Care to prove how wrong you are bproffitt (could you actually be the bozo in this context? no way you would ban me before that happens :rolleyes: )? I would have asked the same question of mdwatts but I have a spirit of fair play, he has already stated that he doesn't know much about ldap and that is fine (though I would like to see more discussions about a sophisticated issues like ldap which is why I'm not so happy about what happened to begin with). Asking bwkaz isn't fair play (by the way bwkaz is by far the most technically sophisticated moderator (ok there are ~3 others that are pretty good and one that is growing), but what is most impressive about bwkaz is that he isn't egotistical at all, he is driven by knowledge). Well that’s my experience and I couldn't think of a greater compliment. The lack of an ego means that he will continue to learn from any source that has relevance, and he is sharp enough to know when a source doesn't have relevance so that is not a concern ;) .

I know I'm a moron, hell mdwatts has over 30k post, hell he knows all, funny that he failed at trying to use debian (slackware too incase your were wondering) cause it didn't set up X for him n what not (I managed to use debian for the last 2-3 years without a problem, I wonder who is better at RTFM and STFW?) But hay I deserve to be ridiculed when I answer a question cause mdwatts has never asked a question on this board (maybe his past failures illustrate why he should have asked some questions, but that's just my opinion).

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by stiles

I know I'm a moron, hell mdwatts has over 30k post, hell he knows all, funny that he failed at trying to use debian (slackware too incase your were wondering) cause it didn't set up X for him n what not (I managed to use debian for the last 2-3 years without a problem, I wonder who is better at RTFM and STFW?) But hay I deserve to be ridiculed when I answer a question cause mdwatts has never asked a question on this board (maybe his past failures illustrate why he should have asked some questions, but that's just my opinion).

I don't know where you are getting that information from, but I have never even tried Debian or Slackware. Read what I just posted in this thread (http://justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107474&perpage=20&pagenumber=2).

And I never pretend to be a 'know it all' as I often admit here on my limited knowledge, BUT at least I do admit the fact and at least try to help out the best I can with whatever knowledge I have.

I often receive comments from coworkers and friends on my willingness to share whatever knowledge I have and that is the same I do here at JustLinux. What I do know I always share with others. No more and no less. If I know the answer, I post it. If I don't, I at least try to suggest where to perhaps search and find what they are looking for.

And I don't care about my post count as that is not the reason for me being here. I just enjoy helping others. Nobody helped me get to my current position at work. I have a very limited education and everything I got is from self study and through hard work.

BTW... I didn't even notice that I had past 30,000 until DMR posted about it in the Moderator forum of which then Brian made the public announcement.

[stiles]

Originally posted by mdwatts
I often receive comments from coworkers and friends on my willingness to share whatever knowledge I have and that is the same I do here at JustLinux. What I do know I always share with others. No more and no less. If I know the answer, I post it. If I don't, I at least try to suggest where to perhaps search and find what they are looking for.


Good for you, but why is it when I answer a question I am spoon feeding someone but if you would have known the answer and answered it would have been altruistic? That is the question, and I think it's a fair question that deserves an answer.

[redhat81]

I like bwkaz, he's smart.
I like mdwatts, he's helpful.
I don't like this thread, it's killing the integrity of the moderators.

[stiles]

Originally posted by redhat81
I like bwkaz, he's smart.
I like mdwatts, he's helpful.
I don't like this thread, it's killing the integrity of the moderators.

This thread in itself is not bringing into quesiton mdwatts integrity (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=integrity) but his actions of characterizing his contributing as altruistic yet my contributation is 'spoon feeding'.

[redhat81]

I never said the integrity of mdwatts, but rather, the integrity of the Just Linux moderators as a position.

[stiles]

well I did :)

[mdwatts]

Originally posted by stiles
Good for you, but why is it when I answer a question I am spoon feeding someone but if you would have known the answer and answered it would have been altruistic? That is the question, and I think it's a fair question that deserves an answer.

The 'spoon feeding' comment was only a joke hence the reason I included a smilie. Could you not see that I only intended it to be taken as a joke.

If you didn't, then please accept my apologies.

I could have just edited or removed my entire post, but I didn't as I felt I did not do anything wrong as it was only a joke.

As for the LDAP question, I have rarely seen any questions posted here on LDAP and feeling that many members were not knowledgeable on the subject (including myself), I posted links to documentation and a suggestion to search G4L to find others. I was only trying to help in case nobody else replied.