Switching to Linux..

[Darkstar250R]

Hello everyone i am Michael

Well anyway i am either switching to linux or just dual booting to it, but i have never used it nor have i ever installed it.

Tell me, is it hard to use/learn? I know unix (not very well i do use it tho) and i know emacs. Is this os hard to learn and could you guys set me in the right direction on where to learn?

Thanks in advance :)

edit: It will be RedHat v7 or 8

[nextbillgates]

Not really. I found Linux very intuitive, but then again, I did start with Slackware ;)

IMHO, I would avoid Red Hat until you're very familiar with Linux.

[J-Yo]

Michael, I am the biggest Linux newb on the planet, and I can tell you that if you have minimal computer intuition (whatever intuition means), then installing Red Hat 8 is no prob!... assuming it contains all needed drivers for your hardware. If such is the case, then installation of Linux may be easier than installing Windows because all drivers are installed automatically! Also, the desktop environment that comes with Linux sure beats that of Windows in my opinion!

What I cannot vouch for is other distributions. The bottom line: If your hardware isn't too new or rare for the distro to have the drivers, AND if you have a Linux guru to help you, it should be actually kinda easy! Besides, I would think a Unix user would pick up some of it naturally (although I really have no idea of what Unix is like!).

[Darkstar250R]

Personally what do you suggest? I mean i realise it will take time to learn linux.

I just started learning UNIX a week ago. Unix is like DOS, no desktop, just a prompt and all you do is just search around typing stuff. It's that easy.

If linux is easier than installing windows 95 than i can handle it. Hell i think all os' can install easier than 95 lol :D

Anywho, so i should stay away from RedHat, and my comp specs are:

Genuine Intel Pentium 4 1.4gHz (1395mhz) 423 400mHz FSB
640mb RDRAM PC800
SBLive! 5.1 Gamer
Ethernet Card (dunno who makes it) 10/100
40Gb Maxtor HD
12Gb Western Digital HD
40x CD-ROM

That's about it. Another thing is games. Since most (i think all) games use Direct X, how does that work for Linux?

[nextbillgates]

That's about it. Another thing is games. Since most (i think all) games use Direct X, how does that work for Linux?

There is an Win32 API implementation with DirectX for Linux called WineX. However, it's not perfect.

If you play anything beyond Solitaire, I suggest you dual-boot. Getting linux to play games is an exercise in frustation.

[Darkstar250R]

Yeah i am dual booting anyway since this is my first time using it (IF i install it) and i am sure i will need some time with it lol. Anyway, when programmers finally compile their games to the Linux kernel then we all will be happy lol :D

[JusKickNit]

I wouldn't stay away from RedHat, but go 8 or 9 not 7. Mandrake has alot conf tools to help you (or they can be a pain). I installed RedHat 8 as my first system it's not that hard. Go to www.distrowatch.com and on the right take a look at about the first 10 or so Distro's and see witch one is to your liking.

P.S. I've had some kinnda trouble w/all Distro's i've tried. Some the sound dosn't work, others no network, etc.etc....

[Darkstar250R]

Thank you all for your input!!!! i love it all!

Well i will find out tomorrow what version it is, it might be 8. What is the latest, 9? Well anyway, it's late and i have to hit the hay so i will see what happens tomorrow, thank you all again :)

You guys are very nice :D

esp. helping a newb like me figure this all out. BTW is linux like UNIX? or does it have a desktop i have never before seen it.

Edit: What do you guys think about Lindows OS?

[JusKickNit]

Never used UNIX but Linux has a Some Aswome Desktops. I think Linux is based on unix command line with some added features.

[nextbillgates]

I don't recommend Red Hat for someone learning Linux because it automates too much. Sure, it's a breeze to install and use, but what if something goes wrong? I have yet to use a distro where everything I have ever wanted to do has gone 100% smoothly. If I was a n00b using Red Hat and something horribly, terribly bombed, I wouldn't know where to begin fixing the problem, and I'd get pretty frustrated. A ground-up distro like Slackware or Gentoo forces the user to learn how his system is set up and configured, so when something comes up, he's got an idea of how to fix it.

That's my $0.02, anyway :)

Linux is somewhat similar to UNIX. It uses the same directory hierarchy as UNIX, so you shouldn't have any trouble adapting. One thing that might throw you off a bit is that Linux uses the GNU utilities rather than the UNIX utilities. Other than that, you should have no problems adjusting.

And yes, it has a desktop. If you want an example of how a Linux desktop looks, quite a few users here have a screenshot in their signatures.

[nothingbutlinux]

Knoppix is a great way to both try linux and see if your hardware is compatible. Knoppix is an entire Debian-based distribution on a bootable CD, it runs strictly on the CD, it doesn't touch your hard drive, which is a great way to demo Linux. The best way to get it is to download it from LinuxISO (http://www.linuxiso.org). It's a 700-meg download, however, so if you don't have a broadband connection, forget it. You also need software to burn an ISO image to CD. If that doesn't work, I believe Knoppix.net (http://www.knoppix.net) has links to places that offer the CD for sale.

You asked if Linux has a desktop ... oh yeah, does it ever. That's one of the features of Linux, is the great selection of GUIs available. If you try Knoppix, you'll get a good look at KDE, one of the more populer GUIs, and the one I use.

[phlipant]

the UNIX desktop is called the Common Desktop Environment (CDE) , which predates Linux. the home page is here. (http://www.opengroup.org/cde/) personally, i like it better than any Linux desktop, but it is rather pricey and the Linux distro lacks the best UNIX features, like tool talk.

[mage492]

Linux (as far as I know) is VERY similar to Unix. In fact, the command line should work almost exactly the same. The only differences would be the locations of some things and the fact that you get a large choice of shells in Linux. (Do you get that in Unix? Not sure...) The standard one, "bash" is the "bourne again shell," which is based closely on the original Unix shell.

I think you'll love Linux! The only caution is that all of the choices can be overwhelming. Most notably, there's the continuing argument about which distro of Linux is the "best". My solution is to try several and pick your favorite.

If you want a good learning experience, I'd say go with Slackware or something based on it. If you want an EASY experience, go with Mandrake or Red Hat. There are also plenty of options that are in between.

You should do fine, though. I came from Mac osx (Unix-based) and the transition was very smooth.

*You may now embrace the penguin*

[dkeav]

"does linux have a desktop?" hehe, check out the "Screenshots...just because" thread here (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=38967)

[root.veg]

Just a word of encouragement, Darkstar250R: if you've already used a version of Unix and you know what emacs is, then you're way ahead of most!

That's basically the experience I had before I chose to run Linux: learning programming and doing engineering stuff on HP-UX, using emacs, matlab, LaTeX etc.

Before I first installed Linux, I hadn't a clue about some of the basics (Unix file structure, permissions, networking), but if you've been exposed to Unix in general, you definitely get quicker at picking things up... good luck!

[Darkstar250R]

Well ok, so my next question would be, do the distros cost a lot of money? Like lets say i go out an buy a copy of <insert distro here>, will it be as much as windows, or is it hard to say because they all are diff with their pricing?

[dkeav]

well for one thing, almost all except for the comercial distros (SCO, Redhat enterprise, ect ect) can be downloaded free of charge, or you can buy burned cd's (if you dont have the bandwidth/or a cd burner) for about 15$ for the cds and the shipping, if you really want to buy a boxed version then thats great for supporting the vendors, most start around $30 for the most basic and run up to over a hundred to a couple hundred for advanced boxes and enterprise based server packages

really unless your running a business, just download whatever you want

www.linuxiso.org
www.distrowatch.org

[Darkstar250R]

Ok well where can i download some distros, and i am guessing it's not illegal to download them.

How big are most linux distros to download? 400mb or so?

[Tesl]

Linux itself is free, and the Linux source code is always available (once you have installed Linux, you have access to its source code, so you can make any changes you like)

There is nothing illegal about downloading a distribution, so dont worry about that. Most companies allow you to download straight from them.

For your first distribution you might be best trying out Mandrake or RedHat. Iv used Mandrake a while, but its starting to feel too windosy, and almost too user oriented. I also run RedHat 9, which has been great for me :)

SuSE is another good bet :)

if you do have Unix experience, then your already ahead of the game :) i used to use emacs, but i always use vi now :)

a Linux distro is usually somewhere between 600MB ~ 700MB. Some are smaller though. Others you can download an iso of about 20mb, and then download the rest of the distribution whilst installing it. You can do this with SuSE i think and download it straight from the ftp. You could look into Gentoo, but the installation is hell, especially for someone new to Linux :)

[roamingnomad]

RH is three CDs, each CD is... 450 MB, I think....

I think a good way to get familiar with the command line (if Linux was a FPS, the command line would be an ultra Photon Laser Nuke Cannon of Ultimate Destruction) is to spend about a week without using the graphical interface. It works, I did it myself!

[dkeav]

the links i posted above are where to get them, and you can get them from each vendors website too, no its not illegal, its open source, you should probably go to linuxiso and read the howto's on how to download and burn iso images, all they are, are images of the boxed version of the distro, they are usually 650mb per image or more, never over 700 or they wouldnt fit on a cdr, alternatly you can do a net install of a few distros, SuSE, debian ect ect

[CaptainPinko]

Originally posted by Darkstar250R
I just started learning UNIX a week ago. Unix is like DOS, no desktop, just a prompt and all you do is just search around typing stuff. It's that easy. boy does it seem like you got a little catching upto to do (but we all did at one point so don't sweat it) DOS did have a desktop (i believe it was called GEM released by Digital Research) so can unix (plus i dont there is a OS called unix but rather a bunch of oses grouped together as Unix) just check out Solaris (http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/) (i'm sure there are screenshots somewhere there). BTW a headless windows machine is still a windows machine. i think you should learn a little about computer architecture and the difference between a kernel a shell a desktop aterminal and so on.



That's about it. Another thing is games. Since most (i think all) games use Direct X, how does that work for Linux? well you mean windows games, because the mac for example has managed fine w/o them (i believe) plus minesweeper is a game and does not require DirectX (i'm pretty sure) there are lots of java and flash games, but to answer your question more specifically about the games i assume you mean (ie. fps and rts etc.) the answer is WineX (http://www.transgaming.com/) , to learn more about it check out Wine (http://winehq.com)

[Darkstar250R]

Thank you all so much for your support, i am currently looking at Slackware, is this a good one to start with. How is the install? Well by games i mean FPS, RTS, RPG, etc. games that require a lot of direct x. Stuff like that. What about how big those are to download. Lately i have been using emacs to program basic c programs (as i am learning c). And it's pretty simple. :D

[Darkbolt]

Slackware is a good distro, no doubt, but its not always best for starting out with. It doesnt spoil you with any type of gui configuators, you do it all by hand...If you're up for the learning curve, its probably the best distro for learning, but if you want to ease into it, i'd stay away from it

[dlausevic]

Originally posted by Darkstar250R
Thank you all for your input!!!! i love it all!

...

esp. helping a newb like me figure this all out

...

You know, this site used to be called linuxnewbie.org. This site is meant for newbies to get situated. It's just some of the people still posting on this site are no longer newbies. I'm still a newbie after 4 years.

[dkeav]

i think thats one of the reasons for the name change, the community here is majority more advanced than newbie, but still adequatly caters to newbies, so rather than limit us to being newbs and helping newbs, now we "just" talk about "linux" hehe

[plattypus1]

In response to the "desktop" conversation, yes, DOS did have GEM. Also, you can run X11 over UNIX just like in Linux and basically get all the same desktop features of linux. Ask anyone around here who runs BSD (a free {speech} UNIX).

As for first distro's, I reccomend RH, Mandrake or SuSE. Slackware is quite the transition, I'll warn you now. However, you'll learn a lot if you do start there. Just don't forget where this site is ;-)

As for games, there are actually a lot of Linux native games out there. www.happypenguin.org is a good place for the free (speech) ones.

For FPS, Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory and America's Army both run natively, as well as many others.

For RPG, Neverwinter Nights runs natively. Also, there's a multitude of free ones as well.

For RTS, I've gotta be honest. I've never found a really good one. However, some people have had a good experience running freecraft.

[rob.rice]

If you are a newibe the distro I would recomend is vectorlinux the whole distro is one tar file that untars on to a file system that is setup by the installer and if you know you hard ware well it's a breez to configure
it's based on slackware 9.0 so you can get a text mode linux up and running without knowing linux at all it also comes with X and two desktops setup and ready to go once you configure X and here is where to get it http://www.vectorlinux.com/

[trc]

Try out jollix (http://jollix.berlios.de/en/en_home.html) if you want to get linux to run games, its gentoo based and is pretty much the same idea as knoppix/morphix. It can be run off a cd without installing anything to your HD. Hope that can help you get started.


trc

[rob.rice]

Originally posted by Darkstar250R
Well ok, so my next question would be, do the distros cost a lot of money? Like lets say i go out an buy a copy of <insert distro here>, will it be as much as windows, or is it hard to say because they all are diff with their pricing? I have yet to see a linux distro that diden't have lots and lots more than windows and I have yet to see a new windows computer with as much as any linux distro

[dlausevic]

Originally posted by dkeav
i think thats one of the reasons for the name change, the community here is majority more advanced than newbie, but still adequatly caters to newbies, so rather than limit us to being newbs and helping newbs, now we "just" talk about "linux" hehe

Ahhhh, that's logical. Me happy now!