java vs c++

[X-2-X]

where is the programming world heading for. Which of these too languages will be there when we get there.

I would like to have an objective analysis.

Thank you

[cjanscen]

Do some research instead of asking for a bunch of different opinions. This thread will just turn into a pseudo-philosophical-super-flame-troll. Begin:

[zdude255]

The truth is that both will be there when you get there. Both have important purposes and aren't really competing all that much. The real battle is between C and C++, and Java and C#. It will never hurt to learn both, I have and both have important purposes. Personally, I use C for games, (using SDL) and use Java for logic things. (Competition stuffs)

[tzimsce]

Originally posted by cjanscen
Do some research instead of asking for a bunch of different opinions. This thread will just turn into a pseudo-philosophical-super-flame-troll. Begin:

As if your comment wasn't a flame. Part of research IS asking questions and opinions. If you don't believe me, then feel free to take an Information Systems Fundamentals 101 course. His question was very legitimate, and who better to ask than those that have worked with either Java or C++, or both?

[tzimsce]

Originally posted by cjanscen
Do some research instead of asking for a bunch of different opinions. This thread will just turn into a pseudo-philosophical-super-flame-troll. Begin:

Do you use SDL and C on Linux, or on Windows? How did you get SDL installed and working? I've done a little researching in the past for all things SDL but couldn't come up with what I needed in order to get started writing games or even utilities that were graphically-oriented, using SDL. Any information you could provide on this would be of great benefit to me, and greatly appreciated!

[cjanscen]

I guess I was flaming myself trying to discourage flames, I had just finished failing a test so I was not the happiest..but here is my opinion on the issue:

someone said earlier that he should decide on C or C++, which doesn't make sense to me because C++ is 99% C, which means a huge portion of C/C++ code will compile in either one with no modification, and another huge portion of C/C++ code will compile in either with only slight modification, etc.
"When I program in C++ I use the std* libraries just like in C, but enjoy features exclusive to C++ like function overloading, not having to declare variables first, etc" and ANYTHING that can be programmed in C++ can be done in C (period)

And I don't really know but I'll opinion anyway: Java can't even really be compared with C/C++, it serves a different purpose, you don't write operating systems in java, and you don't write [aplicationx] in C/C++...so apples and oranges.

The moral of the story is:

1) learn C
2) now you a good grasp of programming, so start learning about the more advanced extensions to C: C++
3) Now that you know what a pain these low level languages can be, pick something different like java, perl, python, php, whatever

..and sorry about the yell earlier

[bwkaz]

C as a first language is going to be pretty hard, though. It's really quite unforgiving, and when you still have to learn stuff like how to organize your thoughts before you feed them to the compiler (AKA before you write the source), it'll be easier if you use a language that's as forgiving as possible. I've heard good things about learning to program on Python, but I haven't done it.

I also don't have a clue, X-2-X, if you already know how to program or not, but for others reading this thread, there it is. :)

[truls]

I think that all programming languages are made with a purpose, and when used for this purpose they are usually very good. The most important thing is to choose the right tool (language) for the job.

I think C++ is better than Java when writing single user GUI programs. But if you're writing internet applications, Java has way more available (as in freely available) libraries which will make the task much easier than writing them in C++.

But if you're not writing a single-user GUI program, the chances are pretty high that you will be using several languages. It would be silly to implement the entire web-interface using only java applets, you'll probably use php, Java, applets, and whatever technology is available that does the job. The most important thing is that it is fast enough to not be annoying, and that it is stable.

First figure out exactly WHAT you want to do, THEN choose the programming language. Not the other way around. Sure, you'll find a language you like more than others, but this does not mean that the language is better than others - simply that it fits your programming style and needs better.

[binaryDigit]

Originally posted by cjanscen

someone said earlier that he should decide on C or C++, which doesn't make sense to me because C++ is 99% C, which means a huge portion of C/C++ code will compile in either one with no modification, and another huge portion of C/C++ code will compile in either with only slight modification, etc.
"When I program in C++ I use the std* libraries just like in C, but enjoy features exclusive to C++ like function overloading, not having to declare variables first, etc" and ANYTHING that can be programmed in C++ can be done in C (period)


i have to disagree with you on this one. it is true that c++ is very much like c in some respects.
however the slight modifications you mentioned would not be slight at all.
the only case where that would be true would be if a c++ program was using standard c libraries (stdio.h instead of iostream).
which would defeat the purpose of programming in c++.
the power of c++ is in the use of classes and the stl.
c cannot use either of these.
you could argue that classes could be converted to structs, but it would be difficult to do so in some cases.
even if you eliminate the use of classes and and the stl (once again defeating the purpose of using c++) the modifications would still be more than a slight change. cout statements would have to be converted to printf statements.
any structs declared would have to be modified. c requirements for declaring a struct object are slightly different than c++. i know a simple typedef in the struct definition would fix it, but it is another modification that would need to be made.

however i don't believe you really need to choose which one you learn. IMHO learn both. the only thing you need to choose is which one you learn first. :)

as far as my opinion on the original question....
i don't know java so i can't really say :p

[CaptainPinko]

you'll need to learn and use java in in university and/or college most likely if thats- part of your plan

[cjanscen]

Yeah, obviously you can't just rename class's to structs and compile them in C, and as the complexity of your code grows in C++, the difficulty to port it back to C will increase with it (assuming you are using exclusive features of C++, operater overloading, classes, etc)...but the point was is that I don't even consider them two different languages, they simply are not. C++ is a subset, dialect, or extension of C so whats the point of choosing one or the other (like you said)?

But anyways either one is a good route, if you pick C++ first, and then go back and learn C, C will seem simple and easy in comparison..(except you'll miss new and delete).
If you learn C first, and then learn C++ (actually, learn about using the stl and classes), you'll think "C++" has lots more power..and complexity, and slowness, but whatver I forgot what point I was trying to make.

[binaryDigit]

1) c++ is a superset of c
2) if you read my post carefully you would see that i said IMHO learn both
3) whichever one (c or c++) that you learn first will seem harder than the next.
4) c and c++ are different languages. they are similar, but not enough to consider them the same language.

[X-2-X]

Thank you all very much for your response