Why Linux Won't Die

[mage492]

No matter what Bill Gates or the rest of the computer world tries, I am confident that Linux and OSS aren't going to die. How can I be so sure?

Let's look at it from an economics point of view. Businesses (and even some governments) are starting to flock to Linux and OSS. It used to be that we didn't have big money on our side. The tables are turning! We still can't compare to M$, yet, but that day IS coming! As has been proven many times over, "He who has the gold, makes the rules." If Linux holds on just a bit longer (which I'm sure it will), WE'LL have the upper hand!

Also, think about this. It takes a corporation, a huge amount of money, and an incredible team of lawyers to produce Windoze. What does it take to produce Linux? Programmers and cvs. If you have people who want to make it, it gets made, plain and simple. If a sudden change occurs in the computer industry, who's going to meet it, first. Remember when Unisys tried enforcing their patent on GIF-style compression? Within days, the PNG specification was born! Think a corporation is that fast on it's feet? We have no policies holding us back, no marketing department saying "We can't sell this!" We program because we want to, not because someone's paying us.

Finally, look at the legal perspective. Mandrake can be sued. Red Hat can be sued. Can the whole Linux community be sued? Didn't think so.

In the beginning, the Internet was created so that knocking out any single component of it would not disable the entire network. Today, for example, the loss of a server only hurts a tiny fraction of the people online. Linux is the same way. There's no central control. In M$, there's a "head". Cut it off, and M$ dies. Where's the head in Linux? Is some part of the kernel a legal problem? Rewrite it. Is some distro a monopoly? Kill it. The community lives on!

It's said that anyone can become a terrorist. Linux works because anyone can become a programmer. Even I, with relatively little knowledge about computers, can contribute. I post, here, and I'm currently working on the first of a series of open source Dungeons & Dragons-related programs to give away, online! Even if they could do the impossible and wipe out everything, we would rebuild. I certainly wouldn't stop programming, just because of a minor setback! Does my server get cracked and wiped clean? I've got backups!

As for Palladium-Longhorn-(that 4-letter acronym I can't remember at the moment) worries, we're covered. So what if they aren't compatible with us? We're compatible with them! Let's say half your friends had Linux and the other half had Palladium. You can ONLY read Palladium-compatible stuff. They can read both. Switching systems would be a no-brainer! The only people who are going to stick with M$ are people who either don't care, or don't understand. These are people we can't reach, anyway.

Another factor is forced upgrades. People who stick unquestioningly to Windoze are going to have to keep upgrading, over and over again. Every year, they'll have to get a new computer, if they want to keep up with the latest software! How long do you think they'll pay? How long do you think they can afford it? Always tempting them will be their Linux friends and coworkers. They'll eventually either switch or go bankrupt, and the community will welcome them with open arms!

I read a quote from a guy who worked for ARPA, back in the '50s. He said that a computer should be "an extension of the human spirit." With Linux, you have that opportunity, and (in the end) THAT'S why Linux will never die...

[jesperht]

Amen to that! :D

[CMonster]

I agree with what you say in the broadest global sense but there are other considerations in bringing Linux to wide acceptance by the masses. Perhaps the most difficult hurdle is Billy's oldest and most effective tactic of designed incompatibility in file formats and multimedia codecs (Billy's ever-morphing WMP files), additionally, there are other non-MS-gotta-have-cyber-BJs (Macromedia ShockWave) that always seem to keep OSS one step behind --these the things that "trick" the stupid masses into a Windows/MS only mentality.

1-3% of the population are the genius - 97-99% are dumb sheep. The trick in keeping them dumb is to let them think they are smart within the confines of the sand box in which you allow them to play....

[AreaOne]

Mage....that was a great post and very well said! I agree with you 100%. I don't see Linux going anywhere, in fact it will only get bigger and better over the next few years. Now, I have to admit that Linux is still a little ways off of becoming a strong desktop OS for the AVERAGE home user. There are just a few things that have to be redesigned before the average Joe will be able to use it.

As for business/gov't usage....LINUX ROCKS! It's taking over the server and business world more and more each day. Of course this is making M$ a little ticked. I really don't think M$ is all that worried about Linux as a desktop OS JUST YET! Although they are thinking about the possibility of Linux on the desktop, they are more concerned with Linux taking over the business and server market because there are ALOT of dollars to be made in that market.

[El_Cu_Guy]

Let's look at it from an economics point of view. Businesses (and even some governments) are starting to flock to Linux and OSS. It used to be that we didn't have big money on our side.

WTF!?! Oh man let's look at the big money behind OSS throughout the years. I hope this history lesson helps to show that endorsement from bigwigs (coperate and government) coming and going won't kill OSS. Here's a short list:

ARPA >> DARPA
Information Processing Techniques Office (IPTO)
DEC
NASA
Bolt Beranek and Newman (BNN)
Xerox/Palo Alto Research Center (PARC)
3Com
TELENET subsidiary of BNN
European Particle Physics Lab (CERN)
Network Working Group (NWG)
Sun Microsystems
NSA


OSS has long since survived the comings and goings of coporate and government sponsorship.

In the beginning, the Internet was created so that knocking out any single component of it would not disable the entire network.

In the beginning there was no Internet. The Internet came to being once the other non-US countries began to create their own ARPANets and those Networks were connected to each other. The original Internet was simply a project backbone and could easily have been taken down.

I post, here, and I'm currently working on the first of a series of open source Dungeons & Dragons-related programs to give away, online!

D&D huh? Maybe it's time to move out of your parents basement.

You can ONLY read Palladium-compatible stuff. They can read both.

Huh? They can read both. Disable it. You can run your OSS on Pladium enabled hardware but it doesn't mean you have access to all stuff created using Plladium software. Here's a hint: RTFWP (WP= whitepaper).

Every year, they'll have to get a new computer, if they want to keep up with the latest software!

The current average is every 3-5 years for most families. They generally keep their old systems and run newer stuff fairly well (not the absolute latest and greatest). Hell my Winbox still runs 98 and does fine running what I need. Why buy a new system? The in thing now is modding (which means extreme upgrades but average users use it to mean replacing a video card and the like).

They'll eventually either switch or go bankrupt, and the community will welcome them with open arms!

This argument only works if people are without income or not bringing in decent revenue. You see I have a job.

I read a quote from a guy who worked for ARPA, back in the '50s.

You mean he worked there for a whole 3 years? Wow what a genious. Sounds like a friggin freak on ACID! By the way ARPA was founded in 1957. The man you are referring to did not work for ARPA in the 50's. See below

He said that a computer should be "an extension of the human spirit."

Judges? Sounds like a hippy-trippy interpretation of Man-Computer Symbiosis by Licklider, published in 1960. His ARPA career lasted two years (1962-1964). You can read both of his great works Man-Computer Symbiosis and The Computer as a Communication Device here (http://216.239.57.100/search?q=cache:bdqdUlJTVOYJ:memex.org/licklider.pdf+%22Man+Computer+Symbiosis%22+%2Bexte nsion&hl=en&ie=UTF-8). Niether contain any such words.

However, in his seminal article "Man-Computer Symbiosis," he proposed that the computer should act as an extension of the human capabilities for cognition and communication -- which includes, of course, the manipulation of media.

[sonictooth]

Bad day?

He had some nice things to say, why'd you have to destroy it. Oh well.

[CMonster]

D&D huh? Maybe it's time to move out of your parents basement. -LOL! That was cold!

[iGuy]

El_Cu_Guy:

Microsoft insert.

[anza00]

It sounds like El_Cu_Guy needs to get out of Billy G. basement, lol.

[drunkpenguin]

In my view, Linus and RMS can be viewd as the continental congress way back in the 1700s that rallied the people and fought with blood sweat and tears to get freedom. OSS and Linux won't die as long as there are people that still use them. Even if it is one man, that one man can still revive the movement. As long as we preserveer and press onward, OSS and Linux will live on. Microsoft is certainly the best right now. They have brought us many new inovations by stealing other smaller companies technologies. So yeah Microsoft is the big empier. But the bigger they are, thee harder they fall. It is not a matter of if Microsoft will collapse, it is a matter of when. The day it happens may not be tomorrow, but that say is sooner than you think. The only way they will not fall, is for us to lose hope. There is a fat chance in hell of that happening. Linux is for the people and by the people. They can't stop us no matter how hard they try.

[hlrguy]

Originally posted by El_Cu_Guy

The current average is every 3-5 years for most families. They generally keep their old systems and run newer stuff fairly well (not the absolute latest and greatest). Hell my Winbox still runs 98 and does fine running what I need. Why buy a new system? The in thing now is modding (which means extreme upgrades but average users use it to mean replacing a video card and the like).

This argument only works if people are without income or not bringing in decent revenue. You see I have a job.


He stated that IN THE FUTURE, not as of today, Billyboy doesn't have his hand in the cookie jar completely yet. With secure computing, and I have read it, you are FORCED to go back to the server on EVERY docuement open (yeah, of course he is working on the method where you don't have to check in with MS to open your own document...I'll hold my breath). Does anyone here not know that MS will make the process work less and less efficiently with older OSs.

Software on server, or the 14 times a day MS 'validates' your system to spy on you. Hmmm, software is 1 year old, activate the memory wait state level 1, 4 cycle delay before memory access please. Hmmm, needs a response from the server, 2 YEAR OLD SYSTEM, lets play a flashing banner saying 'If the access time is slow, you need Windows 2345, only $2,149.99 if you buy 6 today!' Put the request in the queue, we'll process it in...timestamp 45 seconds, activate memory wait state level 2, 10 clock cycles between accesses.

System is 3 years old, alright, activate registry shuffle software. Every time a program starts, lets shuffle all the keys so that it has to rebuild the registry database on every program start. If the 3 minutes to open the same application that took 5 seconds when new doesn't convince them, activate the random hardware failure simulation software hidden in the kernel, introduce memory wait state level 3 20 clock cycles, every millionth access, corrupt the
memory pointer before acess. We'll get this non MS taxpaying SOB to upgrade one way or another.

No Microsoft is a straight up company with all our own interests at heart. They have NEVER done anything like that. Opera web pages were a mistake on the WEB. Dr DOS false errors were an honest mistake, they really want Java to work well on Windows, and ...

Bill has already made his displeasure known that the mass of sheep...er comsumers didn't run out and fork over another $500 to get a more complete dictionary in Office XP...how DARE they. His secure computing and palladium and .net is about NOTHING more than how to extract and extort more money more often from everyone, IN THE FUTURE...kinda like the origional poster said.

Your second point above, I think you missed the point entirely. Company after company making GOOD money is throwing good money after bad sticking with MS (at current prices, their latest price slash is a move in the right direction), and no matter how much cash flow you have, or how perfect your position is, if you are paying 2-10 times for infrastructure than you competition is, you are screwed. Slowly go bankrupt or switch. A little black and white, but the point is still valid.

As I was reading this post, I was expecting to see your entry in it. Virtually every MS post on the forum has your 15cents worth, and you simply flame, flame, flame. You sound to me like someone with an inferiority complex and the only satisfaction you get is from your attempts to flame everyone who doesn't blow sunshine up Bill's ...er..um..way. Instead of correcting the errors in the post, or attempting to counter in a meaningful way, let's just belittle anyone who doesn't see the world through your eyes.

Flame away, I can take it, and really couldn't care. To the origional poster, I agree Linux is here to stay, and is at or has slightly exceeded critical mass for mainstream. This is my first and last ever rebuttal of anyting El Cu says, until now, it just wasn't worth the bother.

hlrguy

P.S. I have a great job (14 years high tech), my own home and don't live with my parents,
so what's my problem. :D

[mage492]

I do apologize for the historical errors, by the way. I only remembered the quote, and the rough time. 3 years off isn't too shabby, I think...

As for the "Moving out of my parents' basement" comment... (I do NOT intend to start a flame war, here. Please don't be offended, anyone. Also, I do admit that this is a bit off topic...)

It is a very enjoyable game, still played by many people the world over. A few extremists just give it a bad name. I am a college student, currently. I don't have the money to move out. I'm only 19 years old, here! Besides, what does my personal life matter to you? I merely pointed it out to say that anyone, even myself, can help the community, in some small way. Does trying to help make me deserving of ridicule? Don't worry, though. You certainly aren't going to stop me from playing the game, writing programs, or posting on these wonderful forums. :D

Again, I'm sorry for that. I'm just slightly offended, by that comment. Please don't let this topic go off on a tangent. It is intended to be a reassurance during times of difficulty (despite a few accidental inaccuracies).

[El_Cu_Guy]

No Microsoft is a straight up company with all our own interests at heart.

Microsoft is a straight up company with all their own interests at heart.

they really want Java to work well on Windows, and ...

Sure they do. That is their own incompatible version. This wasn't feasible (given legal hurdles) so they realeased Java's bastard little brother .Net unto the the world.

His secure computing and palladium and .net is about NOTHING more than how to extract and extort more money more often from everyone, IN THE FUTURE...kinda like the origional poster said.

While I agree that Palladium is a little extreme when reviewing comparison between .Net and Java, .Net is very solid and a great multi-platform environment. Of course Microsoft's definition of multiplatform is Windows 9x/Me, W2K, XP....

if you are paying 2-10 times for infrastructure than you competition is, you are screwed.

Not if your ROI (return on investment) is higher than your competition. Only if the return isn't higher than the original investment will you play with the idea of switching.

the only satisfaction you get is from your attempts to flame everyone who doesn't blow sunshine up Bill's ...er..um..way. Instead of correcting the errors in the post, or attempting to counter in a meaningful way, let's just belittle anyone who doesn't see the world through your eyes.

I see a problem when people base their points on misinformation. That's just sad. That does often change that view in that it the main points become more accurate and only then do they become valid. It's call debate people.

I also find it funny that if someone were to post
"Bill Gates was once arrested for running over a small child"
and I corrected it by posting that Gates was arrested for druck driving I'm suddenly Gates' best friend.

I'm not one extreme other the other. I'm independent on my views. It amazes me that if I were to go off on a pro-OSS rant or use GNU/Linux rather than Linux people post about how I might secretly be RMS. If I look at it more form a pratical sense and include my knowledge of correct history I'm suddenly Gates in disguise. Give me a break. Seriously, how do you people come to these conclusions. I'm one, one week I'm the other the next.

As for the "Moving out of my parents' basement" comment...

You took that literally!?! I though all D&D guys and Trekkies heard that at least once in their lives.

I'm going to stop posting some many corrections. Instead I'm going to change my signature to link to a rather intelligent whitepaper. I seriosuly suggest that you contact the author and ask where you can read his other works and publishings. It might just change your life.

[Parcival]

That whitepaper was highly enlighting. However, now I'm not sure anymore wether I shall be a pessimist or an optimist. :confused:

[spiderbaby1958]

At some point I've lost the thread of this goofy thread... but I think the issue is simple:

1. To the extent that is a business, the market can only speed the growth of Linux.

2. To the extent that it isn't a business, Linux can't be put out of business.

3. Microsoft will not be able to dominate a market where somebody else is either selling a superior product for a fraction of the cost-- or giving it away free-- forever. More and more people are using Linux, and the people who use it tend to love it-- and hate Microsoft. If digital rights management becomes successful, and pirated software becomes a thing of the past, this will force huge numbers of nonpaying customers (many of who simply don't have the money) into the arms of Linux-- and knock a huge hole in Microsoft's ubiquity. Linux becomes more familiar, less intimidating.

The SCO case may generate short term FUD, but if SCO can't win the case, Linux will emerge looking more stable and legitiimate than going in. The FUD will flow the other way, and Microsoft's involvement will not escape notice, especially among the outraged consumers who can't download music on their computers anymore.

Pick your metaphor... tortoise vs. hare?
David vs. Goliath? Assuming a free market, Bill's goin down. He's toast with glasses.

[drunkpenguin]

Amen to that Spidy. It is what I firmly believe. It is certainly a matter of if microsoft falls, just a matter of when. Linux is a superior product and gives freedom to the end-user and not some conglomerate(Spelling?) like microsoft. This is why I decided to pass out copies of Knoppix to people that show any remote kind of intrest. The more we spread the word of Linux now, the more likely the day microsoft implodes on itself comes closer.

I wish those damned "Why linux isn't ready for the home user" threads would end. They do nothing more than divide our community and turn us against each other. Linux by far is ready for the home user. With support for all kinds of hardware increasing, just about anyone with any system can run it efficently.

[mchangun]

El_Cu_Guy

Please?

[spiderbaby1958]

Originally posted by drunkpenguin
I wish those damned "Why linux isn't ready for the home user" threads would end. They do nothing more than divide our community and turn us against each other. Linux by far is ready for the home user. With support for all kinds of hardware increasing, just about anyone with any system can run it efficently.

I'm not really sure what that means anyway. I would say the majority of people who use linux and love it are home users. do they mean the average windows user?

Even so, I disagree that those within and without the linux community shouldn't feel free to openly voice their criticisms. Someone who reads the comments might be inspired to make the corrections that will make Linux better.

For the causual user who just wants to surf, email, and print up his/her own Christmas cards, I really do think that Linux has everything that person needs... these days in many distros you can do all that with the GUI just like windows

[VolcomPimp]

1-3% of the population are the genius - 97-99% are dumb sheep. The trick in keeping them dumb is to let them think they are smart within the confines of the sand box in which you allow them to play....

if that's the case then who cares whether or not linux becomes the most widely used OS??? Only reason I can think of would be so more people would support it for reasons such as drivers, games and apps etc... but other than that I really dont care what other ppl use...

[drunkpenguin]

Your right spidy. I just get so emotionally envolved (yeah I need other things to do with my time too) when people say linux isn't ready for use in the home.